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DL Looking At Republic To Replace Mesa At JFK  
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

http://www.planebuzz.com/2006/08/breaking_news_delta_talking_to.html

Sources tell us today that Delta Air Lines has asked Republic Holdings to backstop for competitor Mesa Airlines -- because of Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract with Delta for part of its expanded JFK service.

Under an agreement between Delta and Mesa, Mesa, under its Freedom Airlines operation, is slated to fly 12 37-seat De Havilland Dash 8 aircraft in support of Delta's expanding hub operations out of JFK.

But this week it was announced that Delta was replacing Dash-8 aircraft with Beech 1900s on several Delta Connection flights that are slated to begin next week. Additional new service is slated to begin in September.

Yeah. That's right. Beech 1900s. Goes right along with Delta's latest advertising image of a "sanctuary in the sky" doesn't it?

Today we were told by sources that the problem appears to be that Mesa apparently leased Dash 8 100s from a Canadian lessor. Fine, but one big problem. The aircraft did not have GPWS kits installed.

We understand that Mesa now has one aircraft equipped with the necessary GPWS, but that availability of additional GPWS systems for the aircraft is nil. None to be had. Maybe for months.

As a result, Mesa apparently has only one Dash 8 and 2 1900s available to start the new Delta Connection service out of JFK next week.

Not surprisingly, we understand the folks at Delta are none too happy about this situation. They are so unhappy, in fact, that we understand they have contacted Republic Holdings about providing aircraft.

As one of our sources told us, Republic would certainly have no problem getting 10-12 Embraer 135s up and running to provide feed -- if that is what Delta chooses to do. Tuesday, Republic folks were told, according to one source, "to ramp up."

Not sure how all of this is going to work out -- but it's clear Delta does not want to run its new highly-touted JFK service utilizing Beech 1900s.

As for Mesa, it's clearly not a good week.

This news comes the same week load factors for its new "go!" Hawaiian operation came in lower than what the company had previously indicated. Load factor for July was 73.9%. Not surprisingly the airline promptly announced yet another fare sale for its Hawaiian operation after the traffic numbers were released -- with select $29 one-way fares through the end of the year on sale through the end of this week.

Finally, Mesa posted poor numbers in the DOT Air Travel Consumer Report for June that was released this week. Not only did the airline post a 5% cancellation rate in June, it also posted the most complaints of any airline. On-time performance for the airline was 66.7%.


-Mr. X

If they go for the Embraer 135, yields had better be good, as it's not a very economical aircraft. I would LOVE to see ExpressJet take some Delta flying out of JFK, but I don't see that happening.


What now?
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

DL already has E135's on the JFK-BDL and JFK-PVD routes starting in September.

Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17349 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Thread starter):
Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract

Mesa falling short on a contract? Nah...never Silly



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.

Remember that quote next time your on your little LCC spiel. You get what you pay for.  Wink



OttoPylit


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

At least Mesa pays it's FOs  Wink It's happened before - but hey, Mesa wants to get their dirty hands everywhere.
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 4):
It's happened before - but hey, Mesa wants to get their dirty hands everywhere.

That's pretty much correct. People call AS a "codeshare wh0re", then what is Mesa, a "Subcontract wh0re"  Silly ?


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
People call AS a "codeshare wh0re", then what is Mesa, a "Subcontract wh0re"

Hehee.. nah.. a 'ho gets paid.. they just a bitch!

Sorry.. had to do that.. dang MadTV



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

And this is why DL undoubtedly put in performance clauses in its Mesa contract and will walk away if the price is not right. After seeing the ATC/runway problems at JFK this summer (not all of which are because of turboprops but they certainly haven’t helped), DL would dearly love to have an excuse to get rid of Mesa. Since the JFK operation has apparently done well financially, there is not near as much fear of taking on bigger, more expensive planes than the DH8s.

Mesa has been used over and over again by carriers to further their ends and then dumped after the purpose has been served. Mesa gets what it dishes up.

Republic is a very well run company and I’d love to see more of them. Maybe they’ll buy their Ohio neighbor Comair which flies most of the rest of DL’s NE RJ operation because they too are a good operator.


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

Wait so if Republic takes it over, will it be until the DH8s can come online, or permenantly?

User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

Well, Republic is covering them for the time being regardless, however, if Mesa does not get their act together, then the whole JFK DH8 fiasco will be replaced by Chautauqua's E135's (also 37 seats) on a permanent basis. That's the current version of the story, anyway.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineGGpillow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

nice of you to plagiarize Holly like that... she's never liked Mesa. There are other issues with the planes that Mesa is finding out about - this is what happens when you buy "lemon" airplanes vs. a "lemon" car.. too bad they don't have carfax for aircraft!

User currently offlineDrewwright From United States of America, joined May 2001, 621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

I heard that Mesa flight crews only get paid block time (sked flight time) for trips regardless of how much time they go over. Good luck with that on the international push.....

User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Just noticed something odd..

Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?

Just wondering..

Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4730 08:08 AM Arrived
Norfolk, VA Gulfstream Intl Airlines 5723 11:03 AM Arrived
Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4690 02:23 PM Arrived
Charleston, SC Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4733 05:28 PM Arrived
Norfolk, VA Gulfstream Intl Airlines 4735 08:06 PM Arrived



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4695 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13):
This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?

Well, apart from the fact that you'd have to find quite a few pilots that would to go through many weeks of training on the plane type, how about acquisition costs, high maintenance costs, general high CASM for the plane, and lack of suitable spare parts.


User currently offlineM180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?

We had this in a bulletin, IIRC it is because they have one of the aircrafts unavailable, and they have a wet lease with Gulfstream to operate the flights. It's only the routes operated by that single aircraft that are going to be operated by Gulfstream

[Edited 2006-08-16 10:11:18]


Werner from SAL
User currently offlineAmwest2United From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4632 times:
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Mesa is starting to fall apart IMO. They are taking planes from markets and replacing them with wet leased flying. How profitable could that be? I know DL is very unhappy with the set up in JFK and I would suspect that you will see the flying transition to Republic/Chautauqua on a more permenent basis. I heard there were many strings attached to the DL/YV contract in DL's favor. I personally would love to see Mesa move to DL and leave UA, it would be the best thing to happen to UAX in years.


Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineM180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 17):
Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.

Because HP still has the contract, but once it's over the plan is to bring most of the express flying in house. Operated by the fully owned regional carriers.



Werner from SAL
User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

I've heard the same about going in-house but that's subject to change.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13):
This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?

In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.


User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

MESA has until 31 Oct until to get their act together or they are gone, outahere, finito. We will not take the DH8's, they are MESA's nad they can have them. Our CEO does not want to go backwards with turboprops. Bad enough we are getting CRJ's. We are also getting back alot of the MCO flying that was assigned to Freedom.



Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8664 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

I wouldnt be surprised. RP has a good reptutation compared to YV's. If RP can get EMB-135's to do the work, good. I'll be very happy knowing that a company has the right eqpt to do the job instead of putting smaller planes to do the job.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4331 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.

Or Great Lakes.


User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20):
In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.

I find that surprising considering that little movement has occurred with any of the aircraft since they were parked in MYR months ago, with exception to the daily engine runup of one or two a/c.


25 MarkTPA : Talking to a buddy of mine today, he confirms that Gulfstream is doing some flying for US that Mesa can't do. He says they were told that if they can
26 FutureFO : The JFK planes are not the ones going to CO, those are coming from the US Codeshare. The DL planes are staying put. Gulfstream is not operating for DL
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