Sources tell us today that Delta Air Lines has asked Republic Holdings to backstop for competitor Mesa Airlines -- because of Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract with Delta for part of its expanded JFK service.
Under an agreement between Delta and Mesa, Mesa, under its Freedom Airlines operation, is slated to fly 12 37-seat De Havilland Dash 8 aircraft in support of Delta's expanding hub operations out of JFK.
But this week it was announced that Delta was replacing Dash-8 aircraft with Beech 1900s on several Delta Connection flights that are slated to begin next week. Additional new service is slated to begin in September.
Yeah. That's right. Beech 1900s. Goes right along with Delta's latest advertising image of a "sanctuary in the sky" doesn't it?
Today we were told by sources that the problem appears to be that Mesa apparently leased Dash 8 100s from a Canadian lessor. Fine, but one big problem. The aircraft did not have GPWS kits installed.
We understand that Mesa now has one aircraft equipped with the necessary GPWS, but that availability of additional GPWS systems for the aircraft is nil. None to be had. Maybe for months.
As a result, Mesa apparently has only one Dash 8 and 2 1900s available to start the new Delta Connection service out of JFK next week.
Not surprisingly, we understand the folks at Delta are none too happy about this situation. They are so unhappy, in fact, that we understand they have contacted Republic Holdings about providing aircraft.
As one of our sources told us, Republic would certainly have no problem getting 10-12 Embraer 135s up and running to provide feed -- if that is what Delta chooses to do. Tuesday, Republic folks were told, according to one source, "to ramp up."
Not sure how all of this is going to work out -- but it's clear Delta does not want to run its new highly-touted JFK service utilizing Beech 1900s.
As for Mesa, it's clearly not a good week.
This news comes the same week load factors for its new "go!" Hawaiian operation came in lower than what the company had previously indicated. Load factor for July was 73.9%. Not surprisingly the airline promptly announced yet another fare sale for its Hawaiian operation after the traffic numbers were released -- with select $29 one-way fares through the end of the year on sale through the end of this week.
Finally, Mesa posted poor numbers in the DOT Air Travel Consumer Report for June that was released this week. Not only did the airline post a 5% cancellation rate in June, it also posted the most complaints of any airline. On-time performance for the airline was 66.7%.
-Mr. X
If they go for the Embraer 135, yields had better be good, as it's not a very economical aircraft. I would LOVE to see ExpressJet take some Delta flying out of JFK, but I don't see that happening.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6088 posts, RR: 25 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3794 times:
DL already has E135's on the JFK-BDL and JFK-PVD routes starting in September.
Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15813 posts, RR: 50 Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3756 times:
Quoting UN_B732 (Thread starter): Mesa's inability to provide aircraft as provided for in its contract
UN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4286 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3679 times:
At least Mesa pays it's FOs It's happened before - but hey, Mesa wants to get their dirty hands everywhere.
-Mr. X
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6636 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3585 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5): People call AS a "codeshare wh0re", then what is Mesa, a "Subcontract wh0re"
Hehee.. nah.. a 'ho gets paid.. they just a bitch!
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3548 times:
And this is why DL undoubtedly put in performance clauses in its Mesa contract and will walk away if the price is not right. After seeing the ATC/runway problems at JFK this summer (not all of which are because of turboprops but they certainly haven’t helped), DL would dearly love to have an excuse to get rid of Mesa. Since the JFK operation has apparently done well financially, there is not near as much fear of taking on bigger, more expensive planes than the DH8s.
Mesa has been used over and over again by carriers to further their ends and then dumped after the purpose has been served. Mesa gets what it dishes up.
Republic is a very well run company and I’d love to see more of them. Maybe they’ll buy their Ohio neighbor Comair which flies most of the rest of DL’s NE RJ operation because they too are a good operator.
COERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
Wait so if Republic takes it over, will it be until the DH8s can come online, or permenantly?
Loggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 660 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3484 times:
Well, Republic is covering them for the time being regardless, however, if Mesa does not get their act together, then the whole JFK DH8 fiasco will be replaced by Chautauqua's E135's (also 37 seats) on a permanent basis. That's the current version of the story, anyway.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
GGpillow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3257 times:
nice of you to plagiarize Holly like that... she's never liked Mesa. There are other issues with the planes that Mesa is finding out about - this is what happens when you buy "lemon" airplanes vs. a "lemon" car.. too bad they don't have carfax for aircraft!
Drewwright From United States of America, joined May 2001, 621 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3196 times:
I heard that Mesa flight crews only get paid block time (sked flight time) for trips regardless of how much time they go over. Good luck with that on the international push.....
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6636 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3157 times:
Just noticed something odd..
Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?
Flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3087 times:
This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2964 times:
Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13): This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?
Well, apart from the fact that you'd have to find quite a few pilots that would to go through many weeks of training on the plane type, how about acquisition costs, high maintenance costs, general high CASM for the plane, and lack of suitable spare parts.
M180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2957 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12): Air Midwest (Mesa B1900 aircraft) used to do the 3x CHS-RDU and 2x ORF-RDU flights for US. When I look at flytecomm, it looks like they have been switched to Gulfstream International. Is this true? Is this a possible source for the B1900 Delta is looking to use?
We had this in a bulletin, IIRC it is because they have one of the aircrafts unavailable, and they have a wet lease with Gulfstream to operate the flights. It's only the routes operated by that single aircraft that are going to be operated by Gulfstream
Amwest2United From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 379 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2901 times:
Mesa is starting to fall apart IMO. They are taking planes from markets and replacing them with wet leased flying. How profitable could that be? I know DL is very unhappy with the set up in JFK and I would suspect that you will see the flying transition to Republic/Chautauqua on a more permenent basis. I heard there were many strings attached to the DL/YV contract in DL's favor. I personally would love to see Mesa move to DL and leave UA, it would be the best thing to happen to UAX in years.
Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
UN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4286 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2854 times:
Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.
-Mr. X
M180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2706 times:
Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 17): Mesa still works successfully with HP & UA - and only has a few wetleased planes here and there.
They're cheap - and I guess sometimes that leads to failure.
Because HP still has the contract, but once it's over the plan is to bring most of the express flying in house. Operated by the fully owned regional carriers.
Silentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2692 times:
I've heard the same about going in-house but that's subject to change.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16896 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2680 times:
Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 13): This is probably a crazy idea, but why doesn't Mesa just utilize the DOJets sitting in MYR that they aquired from DL in exchange for this JFK flying?
In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.
FutureFO From New Caledonia, joined Oct 2001, 3096 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2663 times:
MESA has until 31 Oct until to get their act together or they are gone, outahere, finito. We will not take the DH8's, they are MESA's nad they can have them. Our CEO does not want to go backwards with turboprops. Bad enough we are getting CRJ's. We are also getting back alot of the MCO flying that was assigned to Freedom.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8556 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2663 times:
I wouldnt be surprised. RP has a good reptutation compared to YV's. If RP can get EMB-135's to do the work, good. I'll be very happy knowing that a company has the right eqpt to do the job instead of putting smaller planes to do the job.
COERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1420 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 2600 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1): Unfortunately, this is the price you pay for doing business with Mesa. Mesa is probably the cheapest regional out there (except for maybe Gulfstream), but you get what you pay for.
Flyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20): In the thread on Skyway picking up some of the ex-DH 328JETS, it was mentioned that most of those have already found homes in other parts of the world, as Skyway picked up the best of what's left of them. Plus YV would have to put together operations manuals, training manuals, and policy and proceedures for not only the flight crews but for the inflight crew as well. That would take longer than it would take to either bring in a new airline or get the a/c upgraded.
I find that surprising considering that little movement has occurred with any of the aircraft since they were parked in MYR months ago, with exception to the daily engine runup of one or two a/c.
25 MarkTPA: Talking to a buddy of mine today, he confirms that Gulfstream is doing some flying for US that Mesa can't do. He says they were told that if they can
26 FutureFO: The JFK planes are not the ones going to CO, those are coming from the US Codeshare. The DL planes are staying put. Gulfstream is not operating for DL
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