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Air Deccan: A380 Perfect Airplane  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7017 times:

Just saw a TV documentary on ARTE (which is a Frensh/German TV station) about Air Deccan.
At the end of it they showed John Leahy and Captain G R Gopinath, the Managing Director of Air Deccan, who told Leahy that he thinks that the A380 is the perfect aircraft for Air Deccan. "It is the train of the skies", he said, "it will be able to carry more than 800 passengers and would be ideal for the Indian market ." Leahy of course loved the term "train of the skies" and said maybe Airbus should use it.
Gopinath said he thinks that the A380 will have a great future on the Indian market.

[Edited 2006-08-15 21:08:40]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6999 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Gopinath said he thinks that the A380 will have a great future on the Indian market.

Well, they certainly do use their 747s quite a bit. We'll see how they do when Kingfisher gets their A388s.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2972 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6876 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Gopinath said he thinks that the A380 will have a great future on the Indian market.

We'll see that when it happens, Indian domestic terminals can barely cope with 5 737/320's at a time, one A380... I'ld like to see the chaops. No, wait a second I don't!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 1):
Well, they certainly do use their 747s quite a bit.

Air Deccan doesn't have any 747s. They only have A320s and are confined to domestic routes.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

Im sure its a nice plane.

But personally flying with 800 people is an unatractive option.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineSEAdomer787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6810 times:
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Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 4):
But personally flying with 800 people is an unatractive option.

Agreed! If I wanted to build trains, I wouldn't have become an aerospace engineer!


User currently offlineVTNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6746 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Captain G R Gopinath, the Managing Director of Air Deccan, who told Leahy that he thinks that the A380 is the perfect aircraft for Air Deccan. "It is the train of the skies",

Does this mean that the A380 will start it's run at Trivandrum and make stops at Madurai, Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Nagpur, Bhopal, Agra, Delhi, Chandigarh and ending up in Srinager. We can even call it the HimSagar (Himalayas to the Occean) Express.



First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6717 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Air Deccan doesn't have any 747s. They only have A320s and are confined to domestic routes.

I meant the Indian market in general.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5802 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 7):
I meant the Indian market in general.

Gotcha!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 6618 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 7):
I meant the Indian market in general.

how many do the indian airlines use domestically? the thing about shuttle flights is you can run them with relatively few planes, depending on the route.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineComet4b From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

and when the first "train" crashes-------like so many regular trains on the sub continent

User currently offlineDistantHorizon From Portugal, joined Oct 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 4):
But personally flying with 800 people is an unatractive option.



Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 5):
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 4):
But personally flying with 800 people is an unatractive option.

Agreed! If I wanted to build trains, I wouldn't have become an aerospace engineer!

Trains can confortably transport more than 1000 passengers (I'm thinking on the european high-speed trains).
Ships can do it also.
In fact, they do.

Why in the hell shouldn't airplanes?

And I can't honestly be anything else than stunned that an engineer prefers the "regular" than the "new".

Come on guys: if it was made by Boeing it would be great, wouldn't it?

Na, you would never admit it... Not even to yourselves!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 11):
Trains can confortably transport more than 1000 passengers (I'm thinking on the european high-speed trains).
Ships can do it also.
In fact, they do.

Why in the hell shouldn't airplanes?

1) Trains have a much lower seat/mile opperational costs, albiet higher capital costs.

2) Trains are nearly as fast over regional flights when the train can cruise at high speed, plus they arrive in city centers not a remote airport.

3) Aircraft like the A388 are optimized for long-haul cruise. On short-haul routes, the aircraft hardly reaches cruise conditions and is much less fuel efficent than it would otherwise be.

4) Using long-haul aircraft on short-haul routes also places much more stress on the airframe. Aircraft age primarily by the cycles they fly, and short flights accrue cycles very quickly.

5) An A388 would require subsantial infastructure development at many Indian airports, when that money could be better used for other public works. If you are not slot restricted, why use the A388 when smaller, more economical aircraft are in development?

An ideal aircraft for Indian domestic routes would be the 787-3 or more A320/737. This sounds like pure P.R. drum banging to me


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 12):

Maybe you're interested in this tread:

A380Domestic With A346 Wings + 748i Engines? (by A342 Aug 16 2006 in Civil Aviation)


You should note that in India, the train takes 24 hours (or something similar) for BOM-DEL, while the plane is less than 2 hours.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5722 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 7):
Air Deccan doesn't have any 747s. They only have A320s and are confined to domestic routes.

I meant the Indian market in general.

AI is the only Indian carrier operating the 747....and they use it predominantly for international ops...with a few domestic legs of int'l flights here and there....

Quoting Comet4b (Reply 10):
and when the first "train" crashes-------like so many regular trains on the sub continent

Senseless comment....what are you trying to say...?

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
You should note that in India, the train takes 24 hours (or something similar) for BOM-DEL, while the plane is less than 2 hours.

At last, someone who's tried to understand the subject! The point that Capt. Gopinath was probably trying to make is that in a country where inter-city trains are packed to capacity and people make 20 and 24 hours journeys between major metros, the 380 could have good scope....maybe they have some plans in mind for the future.....


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
You should note that in India, the train takes 24 hours (or something similar) for BOM-DEL, while the plane is less than 2 hours.

Well, in the context above, DH was referring to high-speed trains in Europe where trains can cruise at a true high speeds.

I understand that Indian rail infastructure leaves something to be desired:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/536883978/1155768343Wv7KzB.jpg


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
the Managing Director of Air Deccan, who told Leahy that he thinks that the A380 is the perfect aircraft for Air Deccan. "It is the train of the skies", he said, "it will be able to carry more than 800 passengers and would be ideal for the Indian market .

The "train of the skies". In India. My goodness. So we can start seeing pax hanging on the plane's doors, wings, engines (engines, well, maybe not....). After all, the A380 is designed to hold 853 pax INSIDE the cabin, I'm sure the ones traveling on the wings will not have any problem to evacuate, if needed!!!

As a conclusion, my favorite smilie, more appropriate than ever :   

[Edited 2006-08-17 01:30:05]


When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5569 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):

I understand that Indian rail infastructure leaves something to be desired:

cattle class..Indian style... biggrin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

So what would be the cheaper option for India:
Invest in the rail infrastructure, new tracks, trains and stations or invest in airports in order to make them capable of handling a domestic version of the A380.
From an ecological view I would prefer the train option but I would not like to know what it would cost to build a train network with high speed trains like the TGV or the ICE in India



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 1):
We'll see how they do when Kingfisher gets their A388s.

My Advice,First upgrade the Airport Infrastructure to Handle the A380  Smile

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 5):
Agreed! If I wanted to build trains, I wouldn't have become an aerospace engineer!

I think what Gopinath meant was Capacity.

Quoting Comet4b (Reply 10):
and when the first "train" crashes-------like so many regular trains on the sub continent

With soon to be added Collision Warning systems things will def reduce.Its the Wanted Technology thats missing.Also things are not as bad as Depicted in that Pic from a Remote Village.Come,See & believe.  Smile
Have you been to BOM & witnessed the Performance of the Local Trains there.Its def the Lifeline of BOM,even the Terror strikes could not cripple it.
 bigthumbsup 

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFixman88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

I heard that a lot of the rail infrastructure in India is left over from the days of the British Empire (pre 1964), but that was a few years back so I don't know how much things have changed/improved since then.


Did you know you can fly in Second Life?
User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5177 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
Leahy of course loved the term "train of the skies" and said maybe Airbus should use it.

Plus, I'd always choose a train over a bus. Sadly, I think some airport got to "Airtrain" first. Can't quite remember which one.

Sounds like Mr. Gopinath would like to see a system in India similar to the one in Japan - high frequency widebody domestic network. I doubt that India has the infrastructure to support something like this yet, and that investment could also be put to good use improving their rail system. The railroads would reach a broader demographic, I would think, since their prices could be lower.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

Quoting Fixman88 (Reply 20):
I heard that a lot of the rail infrastructure in India is left over from the days of the British Empire (pre 1964), but that was a few years back so I don't know how much things have changed/improved since then.

It's pre-1947 FYI.....   And things have changed quite a lot since then.....though a lot remains in bad state due to the sheer population pressure and corruption, the Indian rail infrstructure is one of the world's largest....

The pic of a train with people all over it will surely amuse a lot of members on this forum, but rest assured that this is not the norm....although things are bad, this particular pic is probably some odd one-off occassion.....

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 16):
My goodness. So we can start seeing pax hanging on the plane's doors, wings, engines (engines, well, maybe not....). After all, the A380 is designed to hold 853 pax INSIDE the cabin, I'm sure the ones traveling on the wings will not have any problem to evacuate, if needed!!!

Civil aviation has been around in India for several decades now....if the A380 is ever put to use by airlines like DN, rest assured that it would follow all safety and operational norms like any other airline anywhere in the world....rail and aviation are handled by a completely different set of people and one has nothing to do with the other....

[Edited 2006-08-17 14:42:39]

User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
Have you been to BOM & witnessed the Performance of the Local Trains there.Its def the Lifeline of BOM,even the Terror strikes could not cripple it.

I've seen it in a TV documentary. Simply amazing ! But they should introduce some double-decker trains !



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 23):
I've seen it in a TV documentary. Simply amazing ! But they should introduce some double-decker trains

The Problem is Population.You noticed the Doors can't be closed  Smile

Plans are presently on to provide added Lines.But this is Just BOM Local trains.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 A342 : Can't be closed ? From what I've seen, no doors at all !
26 Post contains images EI321 : I dont really understand why so many people have this opinion. I can see from a boarding & disembarking point of view, why at many airports it would
27 Post contains images HAWK21M : All the Local trains have sliding Doors.Believe me regds MEL
28 A342 : Ok, thank you !
29 Thorben : Air Deccan wouldn't get A380s before 2010 or 2012, until then they can get their international license and the airports can get more capacity. Aviatio
30 Airfoilsguy : The above statement is preposterious. Trans are a lot larger then airplanes and thier economy class seats are about the same size as an airline busin
31 Post contains images Gr8Circle : As pointed out by HAWK21M, all trains in India, including Mumbai locals, have doors.....only thing is, they are left open and have to be manually clo
32 Post contains images HAWK21M : Problem is there are too many people in the Doorway.So the doors can't be closed ever regds MEL
33 Post contains images Blrsea : The important thing to keep in mind is the cost of rail travel. For regular 2nd class travel, train fares are 1/10th the fare of air fare, that can't
34 Post contains images HAWK21M : The No of people that travel by Air in a Year is almost equal to the No of People that travel by Rail in a day out here regds MEL
35 Alessandro : I travelled on a fully packed Air India B747, so a fully packed A380 will not be such a big difference. Basically you get what you pay for, if you wan
36 Post contains images Jwenting : That's what I call efficient use of scarce resources. Do the same with an A380 and you can fit not 800 but 1800 passengers easy
37 HAWK21M : Remember the Ethiopean Evacuation by Israel some yrs ago.There was a pic on that somewhere. regds MEL
38 N600RR : I know this is off-topic, but, is there any/much Gen'l Avation/biz jets/fractional ownership programs, etc. in India?
39 Post contains links HAWK21M : The IndUS society at BLR had come up with something a few yrs ago with T11 & T211 Aircraft. http://www.indusav.com/indusav/new%20index.php regds MEL
40 Post contains images AKLDELNonstop : Mate lets see how your European trains look like when they have to provide for a billion people. No offence but all Im saying is you have to look at
41 RJ111 : I wonder why people are so bothered. You're not going to be any more packed in than on any other plane, infact you'll have moor room per person. And
42 Post contains images HAWK21M : Watch out for those poles that pass by.....Don't be the next hit.Advice Stay In. regds MEL
43 AKLDELNonstop : Advice taken Mel.
44 Post contains images MRURUN : Please keep this post for POSTERITY....the best EVER. LOL
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