Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2397 posts, RR: 26 Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4598 times:
Tonight, Lan Argentina inaugurated it first non stop service to MIA.
Ezeiza on line status shows it:
4M 4520 flights is scheduled from tonight and every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday from Buenos Aires at 10 pm, and 4M 4521 is scheduled from Miami every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday at 9pm.
As long as 4M receives its second 763, it will start daily.
Congratulations Lan Argentina. Keep going!
Regards )( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
AAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 264 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4551 times:
Are the 767 aircraft dedicated solely to LAN Argentina, or will they be spun at Miami with other LAN equipment and routes? For example, my eye can't discern the difference between LAN Chilean 767 aircraft (CC-registered) and aircraft flying, legally, LAN Peru segments (or LAN Ecuador). LAN seems to be everywhere one flies if they fly south of Miami, and that is beginning not to be an exaggeration.
797, I think that LAN can already make a valid claim for being the future Pan-South America multinational mega-carrier. They certainly come across as a very professional operation.
TBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4507 times:
I am sure that the 4M aircraft will only be used for he EZE - MIA flights (and back) as Argentine law prohibits the use of CC registered planes to flight on from EZE.
Unlike the lax laws in Peru and Ecuador where they are allowed, the Argentine government does not authorise the use of foreign metal for international flights. That is one of the reasons it took LA so long to start this flight.
Ether way congrats.
MAD next?
Although let's see how difficult things get for 4M now that the government have a vested interest in the success of AR!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31120 posts, RR: 74 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4467 times:
The plane might still be used on another route. There is nothing prohibiting LAN Argentina from excercising 5th freedom rights on another route. LAN does not like planes sitting on the ground. One consistent rumour is that the plane will operate MIA-GYE-MIA with a LAN Ecuador codeshare. It will have LAN Argentina crew.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31120 posts, RR: 74 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4419 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 5):
But isn't that flight flown as MIA-UIO-GYE-JFK and JFK-GYE-UIO-MIA (at least used to be like that in 2003)? How would that work?
LAN Ecuador only flies to Miami. Daily MIA-UIO-GYE-UIO-MIA.
LAN Chile flies to JFK on the daily routing JFK-GYE-SCL. It has a LAN Ecuador codeshare, but is a LAN Chile flight. Wherearea's the MIA flight is LAN Chile equipment, but is a LAN Ecuador flight. Very confusing, I know. Just about the only main difference is that, since LAN Chile is oneWorld, you get all the benefits of oneWorld miles, etc. flying that route. LAN Ecuador is not in oneWorld.
The rumour (and so far, just that) is that LAN Ecuador would have MIA-UIO-MIA and LAN Argentina would operate MIA-GYE-MIA with a LAN Ecuador codeshare.
TBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4401 times:
"El Espanto de Trabajar"
Under the banner " El encanto de volar, el espanto de trabajar" Lan Argentina staff took to the streets in protest to coincide with the date of the inaugural flight to MIA.
They are claiming better working conditions and a better pay scale.
Cabin crew are paid below the National levels. A mere $504 Argentine pesos!!!!
Which is around US$163 per month.
It is confusing, I know, but I think you are the one who is confused now...
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): LAN Chile flies to JFK on the daily routing JFK-GYE-SCL.
Nope, that's JFK-LIM-SCL: LA530 and LA531.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): It has a LAN Ecuador codeshare, but is a LAN Chile flight. Wherearea's the MIA flight is LAN Chile equipment, but is a LAN Ecuador flight.
Both MIA and JFK work the same way: the flights are operated by LAN (LA) but only sold as LanEcuador (XL). This means you can only buy non-oneworld tickets for the flights since XL is not part of oneworld even though LA is. Both flights are still operated by LA since XL does not have rights to fly to USA with its own equipment.
On my MIA-UIO-GYE flight after we departed from UIO the announcement in the cabin was like this: "Welcome to LanEcuador flight to JFK with a stop in GYE." This means that the JFK-bound pax from UIO boarded our MIA-UIO-GYE flight which continued to JFK without the UIO-JFK pax getting off at GYE. Same on the way back: I flew GYE-UIO-MIA and when I boarded the plane in GYE there was a woman sitting next to me travelling JFK-GYE-UIO without having to get off at GYE.
This was in 2003, I believe it works the same way still, since the schedule for both JFK and MIA looks very similar still.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31120 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4279 times:
Thanks for the correction, I was confused. I was thinking how it used to be, back a few years ago when LAN Peru flew to JFK and the LAN Chile flight was via GYE. Now LAN Chile is via LIM and LAN Ecuador flies tom JFK.
Regardless, if LAN Argentina where to fly MIA-GYE-MIA, then LAN Ecuador's flights would simply switch to MIA-UIO-MIA and JFK-GYE-UIO-JFK.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4271 times:
100 PAX, 11 in Business class.
According to sources in other forums, up until 4 days ago, there were 86 PAX. The number increased not because of sales, but because a lot of LAN Personnel flying were not 'declared' until yesterday.
She's up and running, let's hope they can keep it up.
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
A300AA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 388 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4241 times:
Will Lan argentina be part of Oneworld?
Why are some LAN affiliates part of, and some of them dont?.
Very confusing.
Ive also heard a rumor that LAN for AA is like "sleeping with the enemy"., Is this true?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31120 posts, RR: 74 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4098 times:
Quoting A300AA (Reply 11): Will Lan argentina be part of Oneworld?
Yes. LAN Argentina and LAN Ecuador intend to apply to join oneWorld.
Quoting A300AA (Reply 11):
Why are some LAN affiliates part of, and some of them dont?.
LAN Peru is a LAN Chile affiliate, like American Eagle is to American Airlines or BMed is to British Airways. LAN Ecuador and LAN Argentina are independent airlines, and therefore must join oneWorld seperately.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
Quoting A300AA (Reply 11): Will Lan argentina be part of Oneworld?
Why are some LAN affiliates part of, and some of them dont?.
Very confusing.
Ive also heard a rumor that LAN for AA is like "sleeping with the enemy"., Is this true?
American and Iberia blocked some of the LAN affiliates from entering Oneworld, however American is now extending frequent flyer benefits to LanEcuador and LanArgentina.
I understand the rumor - LAN is American's only competitor on some routes - SCL-MIA, LIM-MIA, etc... Better for them to cooperate than compete on these routes.
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 44 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4041 times:
Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 7): Cabin crew are paid below the National levels. A mere $504 Argentine pesos!!!!
Which is around US$163 per month.
Wow, shocking if true. A4 cabin crew were down to about AR$800 by the end (more or less the minimum), AU are at about AR$1,300, and AR maybe a whisker more. It could be that 4M crew are receiving 500 pesos a month (inexcusable in any case), but that that is their official salary I find hard to believe and, if so, why in God's name anyone would join if they could earn more than double in AU or AR.
I remember that in A4's last year of operations to MAD, since the cabin crew were usually given five days in Spain, some more or less prostituted themselves to certain (sleazy) business class passengers, who, in return for sex, would "support" the girls in Euroland. I have no idea how many did this, yet given some of the creepy characters that flew up front I would not be remotely surprised if it was fairly commonplace. The whole airline was corrupt.
Anyway, congrats to 4M! May they continue to honour their word (or start to, as the case may be)...
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3902 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): Regardless, if LAN Argentina where to fly MIA-GYE-MIA, then LAN Ecuador's flights would simply switch to MIA-UIO-MIA and JFK-GYE-UIO-JFK.
Problems with this would be the schedule and aircraft utilisation:
With current schedule 2 B767s can handle the JFK and MIA routes as there is one aircraft departing in the morning from both MIA and JFK and arriving to the other one in the evening via GYE and UIO or visa versa. Both aircraft clock the same hours as they fly MIA-UIO-GYE-JFK or JFK-GYE-UIO-MIA every day.
Since JFK-GYE/UIO is much longer than MIA-UIO/GYE, if the flights are flown JFK-GYE-UIO-JFK and MIA-UIO-MIA the latter aircraft would sit most of the day in UIO waiting for the evening return and the former one would be flying from 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. every day without much brakes.
Hence, de-linking MIA and JFK would require much bigger changes in XL schedule.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31120 posts, RR: 74 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3897 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 15): Problems with this would be the schedule and aircraft utilisation:
With current schedule 2 B767s can handle the JFK and MIA routes as there is one aircraft departing in the morning from both MIA and JFK and arriving to the other one in the evening via GYE and UIO or visa versa. Both aircraft clock the same hours as they fly MIA-UIO-GYE-JFK or JFK-GYE-UIO-MIA every day.
Since JFK-GYE/UIO is much longer than MIA-UIO/GYE, if the flights are flown JFK-GYE-UIO-JFK and MIA-UIO-MIA the latter aircraft would sit most of the day in UIO waiting for the evening return and the former one would be flying from 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. every day without much brakes.
Hence, de-linking MIA and JFK would require much bigger changes in XL schedule.
Yes, very true. I did not think of this. Considering this, then there would likely be no changes to the LAN Ecuador schedule. LAN Argentina would simply fly MIA-GYE-MIA, which can be flown between the EZE flights, and everything else would stay the same. I'm anxious to see if LAN Argentina will be doing anything with the plane or letting it sit in Miami. Sending it to Guayquil during the day would be the best option. There is only one daily MIA-GYE non-stop, and AA can't add more due to bilatteral limits.
MotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2760 posts, RR: 10 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3855 times:
I've never really understood why LAN (including all subsidiaries), after taking on the A340, never took on the A332 instead of continuing with the 763. I guess they're old, cheap, readily available and not too risky for developing new routes?! And easily replaceable...
MIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3808 times:
LAN has some of the newest 763's around... they ordered some new ones a year or two ago. They have proven to be great planes for them for long haul Pax and Cargo service
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3806 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16): Yes, very true. I did not think of this. Considering this, then there would likely be no changes to the LAN Ecuador schedule. LAN Argentina would simply fly MIA-GYE-MIA, which can be flown between the EZE flights, and everything else would stay the same. I'm anxious to see if LAN Argentina will be doing anything with the plane or letting it sit in Miami. Sending it to Guayquil during the day would be the best option. There is only one daily MIA-GYE non-stop, and AA can't add more due to bilatteral limits.
Any news on this area? The plane should have done that flight already...
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
PHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3798 times:
(Sorry but after editing my post the quotation seems to be wrong, it's reply 17 I cite.)
Well, depends on how you look at it... IMHO LAN offers a very competitive long-haul product that outperforms quite some other carriers in Y (LH, IB, etc)
MotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2760 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3671 times:
Quoting PHKLM (Reply 20): Well, depends on how you look at it... IMHO LAN offers a very competitive long-haul product that outperforms quite some other carriers in Y (LH, IB, etc)
True, but I'd rather fly aboard one of their A343's than their 763's. More modern styling, better overhead lockers etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a real LAN fan.
TBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3656 times:
I enjoyed flying LA quite a lot.
Although seat pitch was very very tight down the back!
Personally I would forgo the IFE in LA for the extra room on AR, especially on long sectors. (+6 hours). Anything more than that and things get really uncomfortable.
As for their J class product. . . . One of the best around in Latin America. Can't wait to try out their new seats.
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4933 posts, RR: 28 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3608 times:
And the day finally arrived! Great news and I hope everything goes well for LAN Arg. They are offering a promotional fare of US$ 500 return flight, so not bad at all.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2397 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3551 times:
Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 2): Are the 767 aircraft dedicated solely to LAN Argentina, or will they be spun at Miami with other LAN equipment and routes?
Only for LAN Argentina. Funny, they registered back CC-CEN as LV-BFD, and I say back since this aircraft came actually from Argentina, as it was flying out of EZE under Southern Winds flag
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4): The plane might still be used on another route. There is nothing prohibiting LAN Argentina from excercising 5th freedom rights on another route
I believe I've heard of some XL flights
Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 7): Under the banner " El encanto de volar, el espanto de trabajar" ...
They are claiming better working conditions and a better pay scale.
Algo de polemica... I work for a dutch company in Santiago. Nobody put a gun in my head for making me to. A company has the right for pay what they want, as all workers have the right to sign contract or not. AR pays better? work for AR! are they forced or something?
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 8): Both MIA and JFK work the same way: the flights are operated by LAN (LA) but only sold as LanEcuador (XL). This means you can only buy non-oneworld tickets for the flights since XL is not part of oneworld even though LA is. Both flights are still operated by LA since XL does not have rights to fly to USA with its own equipment.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): LAN Ecuador only flies to Miami. Daily MIA-UIO-GYE-UIO-MIA.
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 15): they fly MIA-UIO-GYE-JFK or JFK-GYE-UIO-MIA every day.
The 767 SCL-LIM-JFK is used after landing in JFK for flights to Ecuador, so XL also flights in/out of New York.
Flight XL539 JFK-GYE dep 10.20 - arr 16.00
Flight XL538 GYE-JFK dep 13.55 - arr 21.15
Both operated by LA. Obviously it's not the same aircraft that flies down to Ecuador and returns during the same day
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 13): I understand the rumor - LAN is American's only competitor on some routes - SCL-MIA, LIM-MIA, etc... Better for them to cooperate than compete on these routes
And what about GYE-USA?
Quoting PHKLM (Reply 20): IMHO LAN offers a very competitive long-haul product that outperforms quite some other carriers in Y (LH, IB, etc)
Yes they do, and every day a less competitive product in domestic/regional...
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 21): True, but I'd rather fly aboard one of their A343's than their 763's. More modern styling, better overhead lockers etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a real LAN fan.
Remember they are refurnishing the 767s and they are getting stunning!
Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 22): Although seat pitch was very very tight down the back!
Yeah, specially the 343...
Regards )(
[Edited 2006-08-18 05:03:25]
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
25 UpperDeck79: Obviously not. The whole rotation could be like this, could it: 1) 2 nights LA500 SCL-MIA 20:45-05:25+1 XL517 MIA-UIO-GYE 07:45-12:40 XL538 GYE-JFK 1
26 TBCITDG: True to form Arcano. No one forced them to sign the contract. All I was highlighting where the working conditions for crew in Lan Argentina. Although
27 MotorHussy: But honestly, wouldn't you rather see the same LAN styling applied to a new aircraft like the A332? I would. Regards MH
28 LVZXV: Che, no seas tan cuadrado! You know (or should do by now) what the labour market is in Argentina. You know full well that there are plenty more Argen
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