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UA, Others Bid For Additional China Flights  
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Kudos once again to the Chicago Tribune for staying on top of US carriers' activity. Note the estimates of the values of UA and NW's Pacific routes toward the end of the article!

IMO, the IAD-PEK route would appear to have the most luster as it would effectively link the two capitals although suffice to say, CO's EWR-PVG filing links two economic capitals. Anyone have any insight into NW's bid? I'm guessing DTW or MSP to PVG?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...210952.story?coll=chi-business-hed


777fan


DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Looks like NW can't make up its mind. They can't even fill a 752 on their CAN-NRT route. If they did apply and decided to continue using their NRT hub, I wonder what the next Chinese city it would serve, Chengdu or Chongqing? which geographically and economically more important than other western cities (eg Xian) in China?

They did DTW-PEK, DTW-PVG before but returned to its NRT strategy. With NWA itself a big mess right now and DTW not exactly an exciting destination for O/D and lack of 744 to do non-stop to China, the question for NW is, why bother this time?


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting B2443 (Reply 1):
With NWA itself a big mess right now and DTW not exactly an exciting destination for O/D and lack of 744 to do non-stop to China, the question for NW is, why bother this time?

Totally agree on this issue. The one thing that is really hurting NW is that their strength - Asia - is counterbalanced by their weakness in the fact that either Detroit nor Minneapolis are considered hotbeds for international business. Detroit has a huge Arab population but that doesn't mean much when you're bidding for Asian routes; business pax want to get from here to there as quickly as possible which is why ORD and EWR/JFK are more attractive. Conversely, how many Chinese citizens looking to do business think of or even know of "Detroit" for anything other than it may be a place where they'll have to connect en route to Chicago, New York, etc.

Flame me if you wish but it appears as if NW is bidding for the routes just to stay afloat vice actually grabbing a hold of the market.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):

IMO, the IAD-PEK route would appear to have the most luster as it would effectively link the two capitals although suffice to say, CO's EWR-PVG filing links two economic capitals.

It's much more valuable to link EWR-PVG than IAD-PEK.


User currently offlineUnitedNRT From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 284 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):

We'll let the US DOT decide that. It's just pure speculation at this point in time.

Don't count United's bid out due to the fact they have 28 weekly operations to Shanghai and Beijing.



"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 3):
It's much more valuable to link EWR-PVG than IAD-PEK

Why would you say that? At least do us the courtesy of sharing your infinite wisdom and insight!


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

Capital to Capital service, and there is a large market out of DC vs. EWR for UA.


Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineStyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Something tells me AA is going to get this route, DFW-PEK. They seem pretty confident with the press releases they have communicated and seems like a lot of lucrative contracts between the 2 cities. Although I think the fit which makes the most sense is EWR-PVG. Both huge financial markets which not even Dallas can match up against. I wonder if CO has a wall to climb due to all the opposition it has expressed about some DOT proposals lately.

The 2 finalists:

CO - EWRPVG
AA - DFWPEK

UA - IADPEK (In a close 3rd)


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

I would think that both would be successful but for different reasons. IAD to PEK for the prestige of serving two huge capitals while EWR to PVG for its appeal to businesspeeps and techies. IMO, calling one more valuable than another is shortsighted unless you have some evidence that proves otherwise...Zvezda, I'm looking in your direction!


777fan  mischievous 



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2950 times:

Already under discussion here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2938660/


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

I would expect that United would be receiving one of the two new daily frequencies (14X/week) that are reportedly available, and that United can make a valid case for either IAD-PEK or SFO-CAN. It is interesting that they appear to have opted for an IAD-PEK service instead of the SFO-CAN which everyone seemed to think they would apply for and receive. While it seems as though the Continental EWR-PVG proposal makes rational sense, United has been doing a very good job in recent years of building the China franchise that they inherited in 1986 into a very formidable fortress business.

Deploying their frequencies among nonstop routes from both PEK and PVG directly to SFO and ORD makes total sense even with losing the regional NRT traffic. It has seemed to me for some time, at least since seeing NRT and other points from time to time, that United have built loyalty not just in Japan but in the PRC and Hong Kong. It would not surprise me that if asked, the PRC might prefer United as one of the two awardees. In any event, it should definitely therefore surprise no one that United will have the route they want, a capital to capital link. Combined with the upcoming nonstop NRT switch, it sounds like there will be a lot of increased flying for 747 and 777 crews out of IAD, and that the silverbirds will slug it out at JFK with a more crowded field.

While sentimentally, seeing the MIA and JFK bases that UAL acquired from PAA finally disappear in their entirety is sad, logically, it does make sense.

So now does UAL still intend to fly to CAN from somewhere or does that become a part of the next round, while wannabe competitors like AAL and COA try to make due with one flight a day to only one of the Chinese cities, or possibly two?

[Edited 2006-08-16 22:51:10]

User currently offlineUnitedNRT From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 284 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

United is still committed to the US-Japan-Guangzhou market, though given the applications from other carriers, US to PEK/PVG was deemed more competitive.

And also, AAL0616, I agree with your point of view. Well spoken.



"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 9):
Already under discussion here:

I'm aware of that one (I posted in it) but started this thread because the article (published today vice yesterday) also includes info on CO and NW.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
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