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Airbus Pays Up Big At Qantas  
User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16574 times:

Fair use excerpts recognized....

ATI reporting that Qantas is to receive more than A$104.4 million ($79.M USD) in damages from Airbus for delays in deliveries of its 12 firm-ordered A380-800s. It has meanwhile confirmed orders for four more Airbus A330 twinjets, two of which will be leased.

Looks like the total cost of settling with Qantas is A$104.4 + cost of 2x A330's, which is mitigated by the 2 extra A330's they sell to a lessor who get the rent. My guess would be there is also some residual value guarantee to the lessor who gets to take the A330's back at some time earlier than what a 'market' lease term should be.

Pretty creative for Airbus I would think....

My estimate of the total bill:
$79M is damages
$75M for A330 #1
$75M for A330 #2
$40M in total residual guarantee exposure for the lease a/c.
------
$269M (or about equal to 2 A380's....) probably a fair outcome for both.

132 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16440 times:

Whilst it is always near impossible to quantify in dollar terms the "actual" cost of anything, I for one thought when QF ordered A380 and 13 A330s that was the end of the Long Haul Boeing fleet (namely 767)

With 45 787s on order this is where Airbus has really paid dearly make no mistake about that.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16363 times:

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 1):
With 45 787s on order this is where Airbus has really paid dearly make no mistake about that.

How sweet it is for Airbus to receive an order for more A380 from Qantas. Make no mistake about that either!



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineSKGSJULAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16320 times:
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Quoting Glareskin (Reply 2):
How sweet it is for Airbus to receive an order for more A380 from Qantas. Make no mistake about that either!

Airbus seems to be making a practice of trying to get disgruntled A380 customers to buy a few more (SQ now QF). Maybe they are doing it to keep the production line moving and to cover their overheads, investment and any excess engineering costs. I can see the public relations value of this move but it can be disastrous financially if the sales are heavily discounted. At the end I doubt any of this will be sweet...



Omnium curiositatum explorator
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16290 times:

Quoting TrevD (Thread starter):
Fair use excerpts recognized....

ATI reporting that Qantas is to receive more than A$104.4 million ($79.M USD) in damages from Airbus for delays in deliveries of its 12 firm-ordered A380-800s. It has meanwhile confirmed orders for four more Airbus A330 twinjets, two of which will be leased.

Do you have a website link to the source? I want to print it out, so that I can reference this in my paper about Airbus and recent problems, as it relates to the EU.

Thanks!  Smile


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16263 times:
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Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 1):
With 45 787s on order this is where Airbus has really paid dearly make no mistake about that.

Well, mayhap:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20077276-23349,00.html

If QF does do an SQ, Airbus will probably be happy enough.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16188 times:

Dixon and Gregg are going to Toulouse early next month. Most likely with board members. Our person at the analyst briefing is fully engaged this afternoon.

However his rushed view was that the visit to Toulouse would probably seal a deal for converting options and buying more. The meeting was told the jet is peforming very credibly and competently, the first delivery would be October 07, and that the airline was 'eager' to put it into service.

Other points. Hub buster jet suitable for Qantas doesn't exist. Zero interest in 748 (meaning they'll probably take a dozen next week after someone crawls bleeding over broken glass to beg them to accept a final offer). Qantas will consider international freight expansion in the medium term, and its most likely option as this stage will be to convert those jumbos it will start retiring in two years time.

Qantas profit before tax margins are way down. Around 5.3% Jetstar even worse, if you go before one off costs you get around 3.5% margin or below 2% after they are taken into account. It needs to review Jetstar carefully..not ditch it...but re think every element of the strategy including a product that is driving customers to Virgin Blue in droves.

There will be interesting analysis of the fuel situation in coming days in investor newsletters I would guess. It has hedged around 70% at $70 and optioned much of the hedging, in case oil goes into free fall. (If only...) However the commissions on these instruments are daunting. If oil falls much below $75 for a significant part of the next 12 months Qantas will be severely tested and need to engineer all sorts of ways out of the consequences.

Antares


User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16161 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 4):
Do you have a website link to the source? I want to print it out, so that I can reference this in my paper about Airbus and recent problems, as it relates to the EU.

ATI is a fee based industry news service but you can get a trial membership here: http://www.rati.com/

Actually what is interesting is everyone is expecting a few more A380's as the price for settlement, but so far QF is not announcing that. Curious if that's just timing or if they're not going to 'double-down' like SQ.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16130 times:
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Quoting TrevD (Reply 7):
a few more A380's as the price for settlement,

I'm not expecting that at all. I would assume that the settlement has been made.

If - stress "if" - QF does exercise some options, I would assume that to be a seperate issue.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9977 posts, RR: 96
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15970 times:
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Quoting TrevD (Thread starter):
+ cost of 2x A330's

That looks to me like pure conjecture.
$79m sounds like the "big-time" pay up to me.

Quoting TrevD (Thread starter):
$269M (or about equal to 2 A380's....)

 rotfl 

Even the "doomsday" scenario put forward for launch A380's estimated the launch price at $145m-$150m, and that was in FY2000 dollars (approx $185m-$190m in Fy2006).

It's unlikely that new purchasers will get much change from $200m (unless they buy 25-30+) for their A388.  no 

Quoting TrevD (Thread starter):
$269M (or about equal to 2 A380's....) probably a fair outcome for both

$79m (or about equal to 40% of an A380...) probably a fair outcome for both....


User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15874 times:

These are liquidated damages for the A380 delay. I doubt that they will seem all that large by the end of the finanial year after next , June 30 2008 when the total should have been taken off the final payment of the jets involved.

Qantas appears intent on taking more A380s after Dixon and Gregg visit Toulouse early next month (which could coincide with the next board meeting). As they said earlier in the day, the A380 is looking very competent, and they are eager to put it into service after first delivery next October.

One of them said they still hope to take their first 787s in 2008. No doubt there will be speculation about the word 'still.'

Qantas indicated that there could be up to 65 of the 787s in the Jetstar fleet in the medium term. I think this makes it clear that Jetstar will use the 767 sized jets to replace considerably more Qantas domestic capacity than some people currently think.

But this was a fairly downbeat briefing. The numbers are not good for either Qantas or Jetstar, because of fuel, and Qantas mainline costs are still disgraceful and ripe for restructuring which means management keeps flirting with industrial action. However so far Qantas has kept most employees on side, so the feared conseuqneces of unrest and dissension between Jetstar and mainline employees may not boil over.

We'll see. What I don't see is a huge new order for jets any day soon, excluding the conversion of some A380 options.

Antares


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15693 times:

According to the WSJ:

... The airline also recognized in its fiscal 2006 accounts, A$104.4 million in liquidated damages that it will be paid by Airbus, but this will be received piecemeal over coming years to coincide with the delivery schedule, said Chief Executive Geoff Dixon.

Qantas is expected to receive the first of the aircraft in October 2007, around 12 months later than originally scheduled...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20060816-715512.html


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15331 times:

Quoting TrevD (Thread starter):
My estimate of the total bill:
$79M is damages
$75M for A330 #1
$75M for A330 #2
$40M in total residual guarantee exposure for the lease a/c.
------
$269M (or about equal to 2 A380's....) probably a fair outcome for both.

Good that you state that this is YOUR estimate. I'm trying to understand you...

US$ 75 million for each A330? Are you implying that Airbus is GIVING these A330's for FREE to QF? There's no source whatsoever that even remotely indicates this, and in the incredible unlikely event they did, it would cost Airbus nowhere near US$ 75 million to build an A330.

It is more likely that QF, after recieving additional discounts on the A380 (as compensation for the delay) still needed extra lift. Airbus offered them the A330 ---PAY ATTENTION NOW, THIS MIGHT GET CONFUSING--- at a price Airbus is able to recover some of the money it payed QF for the delays (yes, I'm implying Airbus made a nice profit on these A330's, with QF's deal for 45 787's in mind there's NO INCENTIVE for Airbus to suck it up).

Now the question is, how much money will Airbus make on these extra 4 A330's? Take the amount Airbus payed as compensation and deduct the profit Airbus made on the A330's and you've got the real figure Airbus will have lost. Why deduct the profit of the A330's of the penalty for the delay of the A380's.... because it is obvious that Airbus would not have sold these if the A380's were not delayed.

Did you mention US$ 79 million as compensation? Airbus would neet to make a profit of roughly US$ 20 million on each of these 4 A330's. Coincidentally US$ 20 million is roughly 12% of the listprice for an A330, Airbus profit margin has been around 11% in the last years...



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User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15235 times:

Why did we not see SQ's compensation package ??? Or did they announce it ?

And ,
How many Airliners are seaking damages from Airbus's A380 delays ?

Halibut


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15158 times:

Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):
Why did we not see SQ's compensation package ???

How credible is the source that the compensation mentioned for QF?

Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):
How many Airliners are seaking damages from Airbus's A380 delays ?

Airbus estimated to pay US$ 250 million in compensations. If QF takes a chunk of US$ 79 million out of these 250 for their 12 aircraft, there's money left to compensate customers for another 25 aircraft... 10 for SQ, and 15 for EK perhaps?... Or is US 79 million as compensation for the delay of 12 A380's just a little optimistic and did the author of the source did his research on an internet forum?  Wink



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User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15062 times:

Quoting Antares (Reply 6):
Other points. Hub buster jet suitable for Qantas doesn't exist. Zero interest in 748 (meaning they'll probably take a dozen next week after someone crawls bleeding over broken glass to beg them to accept a final offer). Qantas will consider international freight expansion in the medium term, and its most likely option as this stage will be to convert those jumbos it will start retiring in two years time.

I'll agree on the 772LR. They said no new types would be added to the fleet. They certainly said nothing that indicated to me the 748I is out of the running at QF. It is to be considered same type as 744, shares a 787 type cockpit and 787 engines(if QF orders GEnx). Have heard second hand(I didn't hear this part) that DFW is still firmly on the radar. Don't know the timeframe or the expected equipment.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14757 times:

Who says Qantas is getting the A330s for free? Even so they are worth more tha $75m each for sure.


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14161 times:

Qantas to get over A$100m for Airbus A380 delays, to add more A330s

Australia’s Qantas Airways is to receive more than A$100 million ($77 million) in damages from Airbus for delays in deliveries of its 12 firm-ordered A380-800s. It has meanwhile confirmed orders for four more Airbus A330 twinjets, two of which will be leased.

The Oneworld alliance carrier says in its financial results announcement today that “delays in the delivery of 12 A380 aircraft has resulted in the recognition of A$104.4 million of liquidated damages from Airbus”.

A spokesman says in an emailed reply to a query from Flight's 24h premium aviation news and data service Air Transport Intelligence that “the A$104 million from Airbus will be paid over time until the final delivery of the aircraft...”

...Qantas says in its fiscal full-year earnings statement that it believes the A380 “remains the optimal aircraft for flying between hubs and on dense point-to-point routes...”


http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...us+A380+delays%2c+to+add+more.html


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14009 times:

Some comments here a hard to understand.

Why is Airbus supposed to give the A330s for free to QF or pay some lease rates?

And where is QF ordering more A380s?

AFAIS there is only the $79million compensation to be paid. Not nice, but on a $2 billion deal they can probably afford that.


User currently offline787engineer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 572 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13906 times:

Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):
Why did we not see SQ's compensation package ??? Or did they announce it ?

And ,
How many Airliners are seaking damages from Airbus's A380 delays ?

Probably every airline that ordered an A380 is seeking some form of compensation for the A380 delays; they would be fools not to. The customers can probably void any of the contracts since it's been delayed so long. They probably won't cancel orders since they've planned for and need the A380, but it doesn't hurt to go back to Airbus and ask for compensation (along with some threats of course). I think the exact deals that are worked out to compensate the airlines would be kept quite secret. The monetary compensation may be public since they need to report it in some form in their annual reports, but the aircraft deals that are made to "compensate" for the delays will be kept confidential.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13804 times:

Qantas and Airbus will never reveal how much they agreed to pay in terms of real $. I would be willing to bet that the break even number for the A-380 just went up by a few frames.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1009 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13738 times:

Boeing and Airbus should cooperate and offer qantas airplanes no lower than 500 million dollar a piece. Even it is only a A320.

User currently offline787engineer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 572 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13615 times:

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 21):
Boeing and Airbus should cooperate and offer qantas airplanes no lower than 500 million dollar a piece. Even it is only a A320.

One of them would no doubt try to sneak something by or offer something else in the contract like large amounts of maintenance for free or "buy one get one free" Big grin


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13276 times:
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Quoting Antares (Reply 6):
Other points. Hub buster jet suitable for Qantas doesn't exist. Zero interest in 748...



Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
It is more likely that QF, after recieving additional discounts on the A380...still needed extra lift.

QF might have come to the conclusion that since they can't fly direct between LHR and SYD, they will have to face SQ's large and EK's huge fleet of A380s plying that route, which will depress yields across the board. In such a game, airlines are going to make money on volume (sell lots of seats right at the positive edge of profitability).

In such a case, they will need raw seats and the A380 is going to have the advantage over the 747-8I. So QF will need more A380s in order to be able to hold on to their market share while lowering fares, requiring more seats to make the flight profitable.

In such a market, QF would want to launch new, "niche" services to cities like DFW, JFK, ORD, and other cities where they won't face competition and can charge higher fares. And 787-8s and 787-9s will be excellent fits for such markets, especially in the early stages of their development when overall traffic patterns will be lower.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13244 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):

He's back, and living in Cuba! Is he next in line for the "throne"?  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : as I've been saying all along, the A380 will do fine for its needs which the carrier ordered them for... also, many carriers such as QF, SQ, and EK h
26 Astuteman : This comment pre-supposes that EVERY A380 will be late, and I don't believe that this is actually the case. IIRC compensation will be paid on 50-60 A
27 787engineer : Yes it does assume every A380 will be late, thanks for pointing that out. Considering that the plane is several months late, and IIRC the production
28 Post contains links Leelaw : The estimated production shortfall through the end of 2009 per Airbus will be 22-31 units. I'm not sure how that translates into the number of nascen
29 777STL : I think at this point Airbus would rather have new customers rather than the same ones picking up options.
30 Antares : Stich. Qantas is enthusiastically committed to both the A380 and the 787-8 and -9. On DFW I have continued doubts. For a start, neither of the 787s no
31 Jacobin777 : the problem with that argument however is that BA competes directly with AA...where as QF would complement AA...... However...out of DFW, one could c
32 Antares : Jaconbin, Take your point, however I'm not convinced..hey I'm an old duddy fuddy...that there are enough takers for DFW. Maybe a future Jetstar hub. A
33 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ... interesting...didn't know that... .. but its not just connecting pax, Texas is home to many large companies.. I still think a lot depends on the
34 Post contains images Mariner : If Jetstar is to appeal to the lower yield (read tourist) market, I am not sure what there is at either Dallas or Fort Worth for them. A natural hub
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Potentially easier connections if one is a transiting passenger... LAX is a mess 1/2 the time..the new DFW terminals are a breeze to go through......
36 Post contains images Dank : to both comments. I was having trouble picturing why anyone would want to fly to dallas to get to, say, buenos aires when there are other code share
37 EbbUK : No argument there. Sadly I've got to agree with that Antares, please don't excite me with talk of QF ordering more 380s. I can't stand it. Oh go on,
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I think that's probably why they QF haven't pulled the trigger yet.....
39 Antares : I can tell you that Qantas has without reservation shut the door and the wallet on buying the -200LR for either London or JFK. It does about ten first
40 Mariner : It isn't a question of "wanting to go" to a place. I am sure there are people who want to leave point A, fly directly to point B and then fly straigh
41 Jacobin777 : sure, but we're talking about different situations here.... you are talking about pax who specifically want to go to Los Angeles...I'm talking about
42 Mariner : No, not at all. If I want to go from Sydney to Podunk, West Virginia, I would rather do it through LAX than DFW. Or SFO than DFW. And I would give my
43 Jacobin777 : many people do not have either the luxury or a plan to go to Los Angeles or San Francisco..... cheers...
44 Mariner : From down here, the airfare to Podunk WV would include a stopover in either LA or SF. It would not be a luxury. You seem determined that QF must fly
45 2wingtips : And AirNZ being part of the Star alliance has no need to access the huge AA hub at DFW. QF, on the other hand does. A big difference. I'm still tryin
46 Jacobin777 : I never said that, I was trying to explain my position as to why QF might want to fly to DFW..... with due respect, I think there are more possibilit
47 Gigneil : The better point, not that I think DFW is worth an aircraft type, is that you'd be more likely to get to Podunk, WV via DFW than LAX without multiple
48 Antares : 2wingtips, Nothing was said in your hearing because there is nothing to say about the 748. It isn't yet on the page for the international freighter ei
49 Mariner : With due respect - those are just examples. One is used because it did provide non stop trans-Pacific service to DFW. And there is, for example, no s
50 SunriseValley : And don't forget that Airbus will pay Qantas for any operating deficiencies in excess of the guarantees for, I would imagine, the first twelve A380's
51 Post contains images Gigneil : Now now, no reason to get smart. I used your example of Podunk, WV. There's many more important cities like Detroit, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Charlo
52 Jacobin777 : Filling up those big beasts with leisure travelers might be a stretch....filling up a 787 will be much easier to do, and the CASM will be quite good
53 Post contains images Stitch : WN?
54 Antares : In fact the US has officially expressed concern at the decline in foreign visitors to the US, and I know that at least one travel agent is selling not
55 Mariner : Not being smart, just trying to make a point. If you limit the connections to American Airlines, what you say may be true. However, I thought this wa
56 Post contains images Dank : It is easy to forget that since Qantas is an Australian carrier, doesn't mean that the reverse trips aren't important to this equation. That said, I
57 Mariner : Always ready to be proven wrong, but I haven't noticed Qantas talking about DFW for some little while. Just I haven't noticed much about QF and non-s
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ... ..anything over 5000nm, the -200LR will do better in terms of economics over the -200ER...but less than 5,000nm, its better to run with a -200ER.
59 Post contains images Gigneil : It would require 3 tanks but it could be done. Antares has stated pretty flatly that there isn't. He knows what he's talking about . N
60 Post contains images Jacobin777 : It's certainly possible, as QF have been looking into this route along with the aforementioned SYD-DFW, SYD-LHR routes...but flying SYD-JFK would pro
61 2wingtips : On some things. It appears he is right about the 772LR being out of the equation at QF, but his assertion that QF have no interest in the 748I is pla
62 WingedMigrator : But the longer the 748I gets, and the closer it comes to A388 capacity, the less Qantas will be interested in it.
63 Post contains links Ikramerica : You say so many things, and you don't back them up. One travel agent? Wow. Disney parks are seeing flat attendance compared to last year, but last ye
64 Gigneil : The thing is, we're not really sure they are. Airbus has recently come back swinging at Boeing in the media insisting that Boeing is not using correc
65 ZK-NBT : Remember QF have still have some bery young 744's, 9 of them are less than 7 years old so these will likely be in the fleet for another 15 years or s
66 BA787 : I don't know how you know so much about QF and their financial situation but I sure know that if I have a question about QF you're the one to ask. I
67 VHVXB : There are several reason for thier poor financial performace and the major one being the rising cost of oil. ??
68 Jacobin777 : This is my take 1)QF got the A380s at close to 50% off...about $150 million/A380 2) Because of the delay, they are getting even more money off per pla
69 Stitch : Well "industry sources" speculate the first round of A380's went out the door for about 40% off, which is about the amount those same sources say the
70 Onedude : Only a handful of 767's at QF are leased from BA - they are always easy to spot with 4 doors per side, versus the QF 767's which have 2 doors and 2 o
71 Socal : Anyone else making Airbus pay up? I hope so...............
72 Mariner : So - how do they make their excellent profits? mariner
73 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Stitch, I hope you know I was taking the piss... The A380 is a plane needed by QF....but one can't blame them for extracting as much money out of Air
74 RichardJF : DFW for QF just canibalizes LAX. More Australian cities to LAX is likely including perhaps CBR and Cairns. QF customer pressure will probably result
75 Post contains images Jacobin777 : not necassarily.......it seems that QF have been trying to expand into North America for years...the problem I see is that 1)world political situatio
76 VHVXB : Will LHR be a permanent QF A380 destination like LAX?
77 ZK-NBT : Most definatly! I wouldn't be surprised if LAX and LHR via the Asian stopovers were the only destinations for the A380's. They will fly daily SYD/MEL
78 Post contains images Stitch : :D I know chivalry is not dead, but sometimes I think humor and satire are (at least on this board), and I find myself often guilty of putting a knif
79 Post contains images Jacobin777 : lol...I'm glad you know what I was talking about then...
80 VHVXB : Thanks for that ZK. I think SIN would be the last place QF will send their A380's through
81 Post contains images SKGSJULAX : Man you are right! Santa Monica and Anaheim feel like Italy and Greece this August: all the tourists are from Northern Europe. Havent seen anything l
82 Post contains images Jacobin777 : being sarcastic.... ....QF flight 0031 is SYD-SIN-LHR... I'm not sure, as more people on A.net probably know, but I think QF have freedom rights on S
83 ZK-NBT : No worries. I'd think QF would go head to head with SQ myself. Maybe the A380's will do the following then? QF1/2 SYD-BKK-LHR QF29/30 MEL-HKG-LHR I w
84 RichardJF : These days even the most amateurish terrorists understand how easy it is to keep the oil prices high.
85 VHVXB : Sounds a bit more realistic to me especially QF 1 & 2. I think Bangkok's new airport will open by the time QF will receive their A380s. True. But the
86 Post contains images Jacobin777 : actually QF have two flights.. QF-0001/0002 QF-0031/0032 edited: as I mentioned above, 0031 is via Singapore[Edited 2006-08-19 06:01:50]
87 ZK-NBT : Should open within the next couple of months. True. JQ will start a MEL-BKK flight sometime soon. I remember QF used to have a daily 743 MEL-BKK cont
88 VHVXB : Obviously they have more but I was only mentioning BKK flights. Sorry I didn't make myself clear. should be starting in November FCO will most likely
89 Post contains images Jacobin777 : got ya!...
90 Zeke : Your take is WAY WAY off mark, pure baseless conjecture. The damages are not even across all the deliveries, and the amount is will not be known unti
91 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Zeke, not to be rude..as you have some valuable insights, but did you bother to read rest of my posts?
92 Zeke : I quoted your whole post, in my view all four points are pure baseless conjecture, with 3 & 4 being very untruthful. QF always had a 330/380 deal wit
93 Post contains images Jacobin777 : obviously they were going to be all off...I was being sarcastic......
94 Post contains images 787engineer : I have agree with Zeke on this one, a lot of the numbers seem to be largely pulled out of thin air. I'm confident SQ took advantage of Airbus's situa
95 BoomBoom : Airbus Compensation - Qantas washes dirty laundry " target=_blank>http://iagblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/....html
96 MD-90 : To get to South America on an American Airlines plane would be one very good reason.
97 Manni : Not every A380 customer will have all their A380's delayed for a similar average time. Freighters are said not to be affected by this delay. That's 2
98 WingedMigrator : IAGblog is no Wall Street Journal. See reply 26 to see why.
99 Antares : MD-90, Travellers are not that stupid. There are more than daily flights via Auckland to Chile or Argentina that take far less time, do not involve a
100 Mariner : But why would they go from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere to fly back down to the southern hemisphere? They can fly directly to S
101 Post contains images Baroque : Just so Mariner, I don't mind going to DFW on purpose having a more than passing interest in oil, but I do mind going there by "accident". Now that i
102 Baroque : Stop it Antares and Mariner, you are causing me anguish as I run out of breath and still need to laugh. In 2000, I ended up doing the transit of the
103 Sabenapilot : Small detail: the total compensation quoted by QF includes not only the penalty payment from Airbus for the 12 delayed A380s, but also the difference
104 Baroque : That sounds a fair summary and takes into account that there are two sides to most bargains! One way and another things must be extra busy at Airbus
105 2wingtips : Well they must have got their 787s for a very cheap price because I have a fair idea what they paid for 330s. And fairly key players to be vocal on t
106 Post contains links Manni : http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2006-06/artikel-6571848.asp "Air France, which has placed 10 firm orders and four options, is expecting
107 Post contains links Zeke : Quoting Manni (Reply 97): Not every A380 customer will have all their A380's delayed for a similar average time. Correct, the delays are not the same
108 Post contains links Leelaw : According to Mr. Dixon, at the Investor and Analyst Briefing, the delayed A380 deliveries will be accommodated by deferring the retirement of some 74
109 MD-90 : Good point. Maybe I was thinking of a proposal for another airline to do that...
110 Jacobin777 : Are you attempting to be sardonic?
111 2wingtips : I would suggest my fair idea is right on the money including the bells and whistles and I'm amazed you know the how much QF paid for both the 330 in
112 Zeke : It is silly for you to infer that you alone are the only custodian of that information. I would challenge for any one person in QF to have down to th
113 Baroque : Definitely one way of describing it Jacobin. I was noting that the reference said that Qantas had the gun but not at whom, how or even where they wer
114 Post contains images Stitch : True. QF could put in even more options then the 20 "guaranteed" and 50 "traditional" ones they already hold. Still, 65 "orders" is a pretty big comm
115 Jacobin777 : ok..got ya'! Right now, QF is in a precarious situation, but not "dire" like some other carries.. QF needs to play its cards right and hope that fuel
116 Baroque : They don't really match (in service) some of their local competitors and BA (I thought) were better but are seeming less and less interested in Kanga
117 Zeke : You look at it that way, others see it as a one for one replacement of the QF 767/330 fleet, and some growth for JQ/3K. I have no idea where QF is ge
118 2wingtips : Well give us your estimates with a US$5m accuracy then. Again you are being caught up with semantics. QF have 45 firm orders for the 787, with 20 opt
119 Zeke : You can look it up for yourself in the sources I check mine with. Other than that, I dont put those numbers on the net. Your fishing smells like you
120 Leelaw : Somehow one get's the feeling that if QF had selected the "old all-new A350" instead of the 787 your judgements about Dixon and his leadership wouldn
121 Post contains images Jacobin777 : they maybe locked into a "particular type" of flexiblity, but for the most part....its better to have smaller jets than larger jets..... I'm not sayi
122 Baroque : Second guessing the market is not good for one's health. No doubt oil prices have a bit to do with it, but if so, the market is really dumb because I
123 Post contains images Stitch : The 787-3 seems to be a better choice for domestic service, as the 787-9 on order provides similar capacity to the 763 domestic fleet, but with signi
124 Zeke : Not at all, my mates in QF are not happy with the all the changes, Dixon is cutting the guts out of the airline, it has become a very unhappy place t
125 Post contains images Stitch : Got it.
126 2wingtips : I have a very good clue, so don't 2nd guess what I know/don't know. Just seeing what you would come up with. I expected nothing and got nothing. No h
127 Antares : 2wingtips, Qantas is not going to stay on any list of the world's most profitable airlines with profits before tax margins of as low as 1.5% for Jetst
128 Post contains images Jacobin777 : If the 787 doesn't do as well as Boeing claims, QF will be making a huge profit on payment penalties... That being said, many of the 787's will be re
129 Post contains images Zeke : 2wingtips, Please spare me, it was you who said QF had a ""mega-order" "for up to 115 units" of 787s, you have been back peddling since. It is you who
130 Post contains images 2wingtips : And I still say they do. I'm just trying to get you to agree that 115 is the maximum number of 787s QF could get after last December's announcement.
131 2wingtips : Oh come on Antares, you know you are really in high exaggeration mode with the above. Disgraceful performance. That is your choice of words. QF signa
132 Antares : 2wingtips, The nine months to June 30 results and comparison have been filed by VBA today, an interval resulting from the change in balance date after
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