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French Govt Deal For AF To Bail Out Alitalia?  
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

In this morning's Le Parisien, there was an article about Air France and Suez.
Here is an extract of the wire report:

PARIS (AFX) - Under a secret deal being drawn up by the French government, Air France-KLM may bail out struggling Italian flag carrier Alitalia Spa in return for a pledge (from the Italian government and Enel) that Enel will drop its ambitions concerning Suez, Le Parisien reported.
...
Suez is in the process of merging with state-owned French utility Gaz de France, but the government-sponsored deal, aimed at blocking a takeover of Suez by Enel, is under serious threat because of opposition to the merger among GDF staff, Suez shareholders and deputies from all parties.

END

- n1786b

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIkarus2006 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Since the new government of Prodi took over the "colourful" Berlusconi one , there has been voices (reported for instance by "Corriere della Sera" a couple of months ago) of possible changes in the top management of Alitalia in order to make it easier for the Air France/KLM group to take action.

If this other news regarding a secret deal is true, it could be just another element indicating that something is really about to change for bleeding Alitalia.
I do sincerely wish something positive will happen before the airline has to be taken into ER.

 pray 


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7571 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

If it is indeed true, the fact that the whole transaction is going to be facilitated in exchange for Enel's dropping its intentions to acquire Suez to clear de way for a Suez-EDF merger is a bit disgusting. While the "national-champions" concept is an interesting one and I am not necessarily against it, European governments should be more concerned of the possible takeovers of European companies by U.S. or Asian ones (like the Mittal-Arcelor deal), rather than Franch-Italian, German-Spanish, etc. mergers. The E.On-Endesa, BAA-Ferrovial and other sagas are good examples.

Back to the topic, I sincerely hope that AZ can, whether through a merger with AF or otherwise, become a profitable carrier and expand its routes.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Hmm, where are the people who always claim that AF is not a French government operation now?
Here's a supposed private company being used as an asset in national economic policy, using government funds to achieve a government goal.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
European governments should be more concerned of the possible takeovers of European companies by U.S. or Asian ones (like the Mittal-Arcelor deal),

Mittal is formally Dutch  Smile


User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

I would have thought the European Competition Authorities, not to mention, for example Lufthansa or Iberia would have quite a lot to say about that.


eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineCURLYHEADBOY From Italy, joined Feb 2005, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
the fact that the whole transaction is going to be facilitated in exchange for Enel's dropping its intentions to acquire Suez to clear de way for a Suez-EDF merger is a bit disgusting.

Well... i don't know if I'd call it disgusting but, from an Italian's point of view, dropping Enel's acquiring of Suez just for selling a piece of junk like AZ, doesn't look as a great deal...  scratchchin 



If God had wanted men to fly he would have given them more money...
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

And why would Air France-KLM, a private French-Dutch holding company, try to bail out Alitalia S.p.A. out of political reasons? The EU will be all over them if they do.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3517 times:

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 5):
I would have thought the European Competition Authorities, not to mention, for example Lufthansa or Iberia would have quite a lot to say about that.

Because that organisation is completely controlled by French government employees at every level.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
And why would Air France-KLM, a private French-Dutch holding company, try to bail out Alitalia S.p.A. out of political reasons? The EU will be all over them if they do.

Just goes to show it's NOT in fact a private enterprise but a French government operation.
The shareholders may appear to be private companies but are in fact French stateowned corporations and fronts.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3464 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Under a secret deal being drawn up by the French government, Air France-KLM may bail out struggling Italian flag carrier Alitalia Spa in return for a pledge (from the Italian government and Enel) that Enel will drop its ambitions concerning Suez, Le Parisien reported.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

It is not the job of EU governments to interfere with the market by proxy in this way.

The Italian government should stop trying to find ways around the rules that forbid it subsidising Alitalia. Alitalia has been subsidised for many years but has not restructured so that future subsidies would not be needed.

The French government should stop trying to prevent French companies falling into foreign ownership. If the investors in a company approve its sale to another entity, so be it. The investors own the company, not the government.


User currently offlineYULMRS From France, joined Mar 2005, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 2):
If it is indeed true, the fact that the whole transaction is going to be facilitated in exchange for Enel's dropping its intentions to acquire Suez to clear de way for a Suez-EDF merger is a bit disgusting. While the "national-champions" concept is an interesting one and I am not necessarily against it, European governments should be more concerned of the possible takeovers of European companies by U.S. or Asian ones (like the Mittal-Arcelor deal), rather than Franch-Italian, German-Spanish, etc. mergers. The E.On-Endesa, BAA-Ferrovial and other sagas are good examples.

You're right on that point, building national champions is a too small concept, an european champion looks better, and AF-KLM-AZ or Suez-Enel (may be Suez-Enel-GDF, but that's off topic) could be good projects,

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
Hmm, where are the people who always claim that AF is not a French government operation now?
Here's a supposed private company being used as an asset in national economic policy, using government funds to achieve a government goal.

The french state owns 18.6 % of AF-KLM and is still the most important shareholder, so, yes AF is partially a French government operation ...

Quoting Steve6666 (Reply 5):
I would have thought the European Competition Authorities, not to mention, for example Lufthansa or Iberia would have quite a lot to say about that.

There's already no competition between Alitalia and AF-KLM as these carriers are members of skyteam.



To any North American carrier, send us a regular flight in MRS !!!!!
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quoting YULMRS (Reply 10):
The french state owns 18.6 % of AF-KLM

As a minority shareholder, the French state has no mandate to take over the management of AF-KLM.


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