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KLM Fokker 70's And 100's Till When?  
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

Hi folks.

KLM has had fokeers 100s and 70s for a while now. Is there any plan for them to be retired anytime soon? Since Fokker has gone bankrupt for as while I just wondered how KL(and other fokker operating a/c) will do once there are not enough spare parts for maintainance.
I would guess a logical replacement could be a mix of $E170's and E190's but then again KLM could consider another alternative.

Regards BM


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

Fokker may not build any aircraft anymore, but support is still provided by Stork Fokker Services: http://www.fokkerservices.com/

KLM will continue to fly their Fokkers for a pretty long time. There's nothing that suits KLM to replace it with.


User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10090 times:

I dont' think that the Fokkers will go very soon. There are lots of low cost operators in Germany (AB, Germania, DI) that are extensively using Fokkers (70s and 100s). Airlines seem to be content with the F70 and F100, as for me, I had several flights on a KL F70 and found it to be a very enjoyable aircraft.

User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

Although KLM is looking at other aircraft at present, the Fokkers will remain in the KLC fleet for another 4-5 years, in fact, there are rumours, KLC will even extend their numbers by receiving more 70's and 100's ex Regional/Air France...


don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10039 times:

Quoting MH017 (Reply 3):
there are rumours, KLC will even extend their numbers by receiving more 70's and 100's ex Regional/Air France.

However, one Regional F100 and 5 F70 are currently offered for sale by mid-2007.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9995 times:

And it is mainly KLM that keeps the stories of a Fokker resurrection by the name of REKKOF alive....
IMO it would be better to phase out the Fokkers and replace them by the comfortable Embraer jets.  twocents 



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9978 times:
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Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 4):
5 F70 are currently offered for sale by mid-2007.

They're selling them? Didn't they go all the way to Indonesia to buy Merpati's F70s? Perhaps they should give Sukhoi a call, they're looking for buyers for their RRJ or SuperJet 100...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9933 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
Perhaps they should give Sukhoi a call, they're looking for buyers for their RRJ or SuperJet 100...

Apart from looking at the Embraer- and Bombardier products, this one, certainly, is also looked at !!!



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3763 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9858 times:

And one thing is for sure, the F70 is a nice, small, powerful aircraft... I would take it over a CRJ anytime...

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9840 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
Didn't they go all the way to Indonesia to buy Merpati's F70s?

KLM took over a couple of F100s from Indonesia's Pelita Air Services. I don't think there are any former Merpati frames in the KLC fleet.


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9777 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):
KLM took over a couple of F100s from Indonesia's Pelita Air Services. I don't think there are any former Merpati frames in the KLC fleet.

KLC also took Merpati F70s. For instance, PH-KZN is the former PK-PFE. And I am fairly certain there are more Merpati F70s in the KLC fleet.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4722 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9685 times:

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 10):
And I am fairly certain there are more Merpati F70s in the KLC fleet.

Acording to JPfleets there is only 1 with an ex PK-*** reg in WA's fleet.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9583 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
They're selling them? Didn't they go all the way to Indonesia to buy Merpati's F70s?



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 10):
KLC also took Merpati F70s. For instance, PH-KZN is the former PK-PFE. And I am fairly certain there are more Merpati F70s in the KLC fleet.



Quoting JRadier (Reply 11):
Acording to JPfleets there is only 1 with an ex PK-*** reg in WA's fleet.

WA never took any Merpati F70's; Merpati never had F70 it was Pelita's only F70 that went to WA and was indeed registered PH-KZN. WA got their F70 from all over the world, including former OS, BD, MA, Avianova and Silkair aircraft. Seven were delivered new directly from Fokker to WA.


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User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2181 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 9540 times:

A very good question from rootsair, they did get a good few from the old KLMuk and beyond before it all merged into one, I guess the AMS spotters get a bit bored of them like the BA 319s here at LHR, so chances are they'll be around for a while.

Henry


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1692 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9473 times:

Henry,

see reply 3 ... these Fokkers have far better luggage-holds, volume-wise, than the new Bombardier and Embraer products, that's one of the reasons to keep them also; don't forget they're used as feeders into KLM long-haul flights, so need the 'big' luggage capacity...don't know about this feature when it comes to the Sukhoi product, though ...

BA A319's are boring also at AMS, not just LHR  Big grin



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineAirKas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 4028 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9353 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):

 rotfl   rotfl 


User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9215 times:

Told you I'd start this topic off!
Can't believe its one of the most viwed ones !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

I would hope E170's are going to replace them?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

The E170 is certainly more economic, but I like the F70 too. I flew KL F70 between FRA and AMS several times, the planes were very clean and quiet, even in the back (hello MadDog Wink, both planes were build during the 80's, isn't it?). I have also been on the AZ's E170 on FRA-MXP-FRA. The plane was very new at that time and the legroom was more than decent (I'm about 1m85), but from the point of view of passenger comfort the two planes were similar. I hope that the F70 and will stay for a while. Although I have seen some threads on this forum regarding the fact that the F70 is unreliable and has a lot of technical issues, I didn't experience any of them.

User currently offlineTurkee From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8725 times:

(first time poster, long time listener  Wink)

I haven't had any experience with the F70, but the F100s are a beautiful aircraft. Availability of maintenance and spares aside, I hope they continue their service for a long, long time.

Here in Western Australia, Skywest Airlines (XR - not the same SkyWest in the USA) operates a fleet of F100s (and F50s) to directly compete with the QF regional off-shoot, QantasLink, with their B717-200s.

From a passenger point of view, the F100s here have an absolutely massive seat pitch (every seat feels like you're sitting in an exit row) and, unless you're unlucky enough to be sitting in the last 2 rows, you have an outstanding ride - pretty quiet.

From an airline point of view, they out-perform the B717 in our regional environment. Quite often we have to offload pax/cargo from the B717 due to the temperature, so much so that it limits the usual 117 seater to 86 seats (!) - I've never ever seen this issue with the F100 - and similarly I've never seen cargo offloaded from an F100 due to MTOW being reached. These aircraft are just fantastic.


User currently offlineMoek2000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8528 times:

I flew KLM F70 and F100 this summer from STR to AMS and they both seemed to be in great shape both interior and exterior. (Maybe the interiors were remodeled within the past couple of years?) I don't see any reason to get rid of them. On the other hand, Air France (Regional) needs to get rid of their F100's, as they seemed to be in bad shape.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
And one thing is for sure, the F70 is a nice, small, powerful aircraft... I would take it over a CRJ anytime...

Yes, I would rather fly the F70 over any CRJ on any given day.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8506 times:

A nice fleet of EMB 170's and 190 will do.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10003 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8499 times:

Quoting Turkee (Reply 19):
- I've never ever seen this issue with the F100 - and similarly I've never seen cargo offloaded from an F100 due to MTOW being reached. These aircraft are just fantastic.

Ive heard similar stories about the Fokker 100/70. Apparently these aircraft are very solid aircraft capable of withstanding a lot compared to other aircraft in its range. I once saw a documentary about the Fokker 100 operated in the U.S. by AA and US and the pilots they interviewed were very happy with the aircraft's handling capabilities and cockpit presentation.

A388


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8421 times:

The large Fokker fleet seems to be suiting KLC just fine, and passengers are generally satisfied with the cabin interior, and even prefer the Fokkers over KLM's older mainline B733s and B734s which are getting long in the tooth. However, the KLC Fokker fleet seems to be relatively more prone to technical problems and also seems to have problems dealing with weather issues - although that might be more of an issue for the Fk50s - and as such the KLC on time performance figures and cancellation rates are not exactly brilliant.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8291 times:

Yup. Flew a 734 to BHX last month, an F70 back.
After getting another seat (broken spring in the seatback of the one I got initially) it was a very pleasant flight. More comfy than the 737, and surprisingly more legroom too.
Overhead bins a bit small, but there's a coatroom in front for storing larger bags.



I wish I were flying
25 PietPiloot : As I am just starting to fly the Fokker 70/100 for Cityhopper I can only say it is a wonderfull aircraft to fly. It is still a modern aircraft even af
26 Levent : The same goes for the Fokker 50 compared to the Dash 8, for example. Air Nostrum is often limited on longer flights operated by the Dash 8-Q315 (for
27 Hardiwv : Agree and this will happen in a matter of time. Rgs,
28 MH017 : Do not forget, there's only 1 planned 'spare' F70 for 20 operating per day, so chances for delays and/or cancellations are high...also, the 733/734 f
29 Post contains images Aviopic : That's KL policy, we are 30 yards away with spare parts but still it takes you guys 3 weeks to get one part across the fence. Or let me wait till 02:
30 DONS : Aviopic, Service of Fokker Services is poor, they better should call it just Fokker and leave out the word service. Items on stock at Fokker can take
31 Post contains images OHLHD : As long as there are NW´s DC 9, there will be KLM´s Fokkers!
32 Post contains images SK601 : I don't know if this has been asked before on the forum, but when will NW....
33 Planemaker : Yes, and imagine if BBD had gone ahead and bought Fokker... not only would there be NO CRJ700 but there also would probably have been the F130! Oh, w
34 Post contains images Steph001 : KL's Fokkers will be all scrapped when NW will retire its last DC9
35 Bnamaxx : Wow. 20 more years huh?
36 Planemanofnz : What routes do the KLM Fokker 70/100's fly?
37 Post contains links MH017 : Could be any European KLM route, from Amsterdam/NL as far West as Bristol/GB to as far East as Tallinn/EE and as far North as Trondheim/NO and as far
38 PietPiloot : We fly these routes, some routes are also flown with B737 aircraft: Amsterdam to/from: Aberdeen Berlin Billund Birmingham Bologna Bordaux Bremen Brist
39 Post contains images OHLHD : Helsinki
40 PietPiloot : Although I would like to fly to Helsinki, I'm pretty sure we don't send the Fokkers to Helsinki. At least not on a regular basis. Remco
41 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think there are few replacements for a 90-120 seat
42 Ptrjong : If they fly on just any KL European routes, why isn't Cityhopper merged into the main KLM fleet? Why does Cityhopper exist as a separate entity? Pete
43 MH017 : Cost structure is way lower than 'mainline' KLM, therefore, 'thin' routes are better of, financially, to be operated by cheaper KLC. (Note: pay of co
44 PietPiloot : Small correction: The KLM and KLC group of pilots is one entity. For example, I started as a second officer on the B747-400 and now I started as a fi
45 Post contains images OHLHD : Really, that must have been an exeption than. edit: just checked and yes, only 737 to HEL on regular basis
46 Post contains images Gkirk : Durham Tees Valley actually
47 Aleksandar : Actually, I just saw one of their Fokker 70s in Budapest last week (PH-KZD) and it was quite a surprise to see how KLM downgraded its Budapest servic
48 Joost : Didn't they shift some of there flights to Malev, who still flies 737s? Competition is indeed strong with SkyEurope establishing well in the market a
49 Aleksandar : I supppose it won't matter that much. Speaking of KLM's BUD service, there is one more observation. While KLM reduced this service in both frequencie
50 PietPiloot : Back on topic: Cityhopper is looking for two additional Fokker 100 aircraft to be added to the fleet this winter. Meanwhile, Cityhopper is looking to
51 CRJ900 : Didn't AF Regional order quite a few E190s last year? BritAir was launch customer for the CRJ700 and bore the brunt of all the tech snags the aircraf
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