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Will Southwest Ever Go Wide?  
User currently offlineRyeFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

The 737 has been the bread and butter for Southwest and now with so many sizes to choose from its hard to see them in anything else. Even so do you eventually feel Southwest will take on some widebodies in the future for high capacity markets or even go international? for fun What aircraft would best suit them? The 757-300 would seat up to 289 in a 1-class configuration which would be 100 seats more then the 737-900. As for the widebody market here are the choices from Boeing.
767-200 (up to 285 pax 1-class)
767-300 (up to 351 pax 1-class)
767-400 (up to 375 pax 1-class)
777-200 (up to 440 pax 1-class)
777-300 (up to 550 pax 1-class)
747-400 (N/A)

From Airbus no single class configurations was available on the airbus site. I could only find two and three class conversions. So you will have to estimate sorry.

A330-200
A330-300
A340-200
A340-300

I would think Southwest would stay with Boeing if they ever went to a widebody or even a larger single isle plane then the 737-900. Of the selections anything over the 767-400 would more then likly be too big. The 767-200ER would seem like a good choice to start off on and if its sucessful get a couple 767-300's or 400's.



41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

I don't think it will happen for a while, as they just placed that huge order of 737 NG's, and while maybe they need the extra capacity, the economics just won't work out now.

G.R.



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineChieftain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

They are ordering some 767-200's. The announcement will be made tomorrow from their WHQ in Dallas.

User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

Are you sure chieftan? I thought boeing was done with the 762s. Besides, it would make more sense to buy the 753 with its incredible economics? Are you joking and I am just to thick to p up on it?


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineChieftain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

You're thick alright.... 

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

I don't see Southwest buying anything else besides 737's. Part of why Southwest is able to keep its overhead costs down is that they have standardized on one type of aircraft. This means a smaller parts inventory and less time having to certify pilots for different aircraft types among other things. They get very good economies of scale by having only one aircraft type in the fleet.

Charles



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineRyeFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

I understand the current Southwest strategy. That has worked out for them strongly so far. However adding a fleet of say 30 widebodies to a major airline would not effect them but rather help them in the long run. I would think eventually Southwest would not want to restrict itself to North America. And who if available would take a 737 over seas? I certianly wouldn't no matter how cheap the ticket was.

Besides this is for fun.. if you don't think Southwest will ever get planes larger then a 737 write that down. But if you thought a widebody is not totally out of the question have some fun and pick a plane.


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

I think a 757 or two would look really good... And would work if they decide to start bypassing DAL and STL for, say BWI-LAX... Do they do that already?

redngold
(figure out which airline I luv by my login)  



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

I hope they don't but if they do, I would like to see some 777's and 757's and 767's in WN colors (see how ugly they would look)   but I am not sure if anyone, including me would want to fly overseas on a 737, and get a couple of rounds of drinks and peanuts, C'MON, I asked for service on a long haul, not 45 minute flight service   but not to break up an argument, Go AA, keep WN in the states  
blink182



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineCorey777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

A fleet of A3XXs...that would be just the ticket for WN, no?    

Corey777


User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

WN is ordering 762's? Now ehere did you get that from?

It just doesnt make sense.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

A Southwest 777-300... seating about 500. I'd feel sorry for the poor bastard that got boarding card #500. Southwest would really then be a cattle car!!



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineRyeFly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

LOL DesertJets!  

IndianGuy, Chieftain was just being smart. There is no plans for a 767-200 atleast not yet  


User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

They'd never order the 737-900 because its only certified to carry up to 189 passengers (and in one class that is a big seat pitch)....the 737-800 and -900 are both listed as carrying 189 people in one class, because if they go above that that is 757-200 territory. Therefore, I don't think that Southwest will ever operate the 737-900, but maybe they will order the 737-800 that will seat about 180 people for them. Perhaps they could use it to expand to Hawaii, although I doubt it.


Go Blue!!
User currently offlineAAtripleseven From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Southwest would cease being "Southwest" if it ordered wide bodies. They know what they are doing and are doing just fine. I doubt they will ever invest in wide-bodies.

User currently offline777guy From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

The main reason for staying with B737's are the 15 minute turnarounds.Try that with a 500 passenger B777.Also Southwest is high frequency carrier in their markets.

User currently offlineOkforalll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2780 times:

Hea guys....ever heard of Aloah? They use the 737-700 from OAK to OGG and HNL. Not a bad ride either. Don't think Southwest wouldn't try the same thing if they think they can make a buck or two. Also Boeing used HNL as a fueling point when proving the 700's. That sure brought tears to United with they saw that on the ground in HNL.

User currently offlineAussieErj145 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

As to ordering a wide body, I think that with a fleet getting near 300 737s, it's doubtful they would want another type in the fleet.
And flying overseas? Whats the matter with you? If the plane is flying for four hours who cares what it's flying over, mountains, desert, forrest, water or cities do not affect the aircraft at all.
Here in Australia both Qantas and Our Neighbour Air New Zealand operate the 737 between our two countries. It's the same as flying the same plane to to Perth but going the other direction!


User currently offlineHypermike From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1001 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2738 times:

You're missing the point, folks.

As long as Boeing makes the 737, Southwest will fly them. But I believe, more accurately, that as long as Southwest flies the 737, Boeing will make them. Southwest made the decision to stick with a single aircraft type about 30 years ago, and it hasn't stopped working. (sans the brief entry of the leased Braniff 727s)

Based on what I know about Southwest, there are several rules to how they work.

Rule #1 is simplicity. Any crew can fly any plane to just about anywhere. A 767 changes that drastically.

Rule #2 is speed and high utilization. A 767 would probably as much ground time as it would flying time for Southwest. That's terribly inefficient in their system. You can't turn around a 767 in 25 minutes.

Rule #3 is commonality. While this isn't as important for other airlines, its critical for Southwest. A 767 introduces a whole new maintenance ordeal for them. It also involves training pilots, ground crews, and flight attendants.

Rule #4 is cost. Did you ever notice that every Southwest flight has three flight attendants. Flying the 737-400 or the 737-800 would require an additional flight attendant.

Rule #5 is frequency. Remember the "Just say when" campaigns from Southwest? If a route shows higher volume, most carriers switch to a bigger plane. Southwest adds more flights.

Southwest has stayed with one type of aircraft for almost thirty years. I believe they'll stay with that same type of aircraft as long as Boeing makes them.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2686 times:

I think the biggest factor in WN keeping with the 737 is this: 15-20 minute turnaround times.

WN wants to a plane that is ready to "push back" from the parking ramp in (ideally) 15 minutes after arrival, and no way they can do that with a 757-200, let alone a 767! That's why they've stuck with the 737 series from the -200 to -700 models. Using WN's methods of turning around a plane, they're probably need about 25-30 minutes to turn around a 757-200.


User currently offlineTexairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Never say never, but WN will NEVER order anything other than 737 (as long as its produced), or go Int'l. They have found the perfect niche market for them and they're not going to screw it up by flying 747's all over the world.

Read the book Nuts (don't remember the author), it explains in detail the WN philosophy.


User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Southwest flies such routes as BWI-PHX and MDW-LAS, but they don't fly coast to coast (as far as I know) anymore. They used to fly BWI-OAK, but seem to have discontinued that route. I remember reading an article on surviving that route on WN in Business Week. The passengers got a sandwich and a few bags of peanuts, if I recall correctly.


Create your own luck.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

WN flew BWI-OAK once - it was on Thanksgiving day, and it was a sort of "trial run" to see what they would need to do - like what to do with trash on a flight that long. They never "discountinued that service" . Most likely the passengers got a "snack pack" consisting of a turkey stick, crackers, cheese, and a fruit cookie, and peanuts if you wanted them. That's not too much less than what you get on a "major" airline. When they deplaned they also got their choice of a frozen turkey or a bottle of Wild Turkey Bourbon. Also, look at your map, and take a geography quiz...LAS is farther west than LAX. Strange but true, and they do offer a BWI-LAS nonstop, so while they may not fly "coast to coast", they most certainly do fly transcon. I have "survived" a WN nonstop from MCI-OAK. IT was actually more enjoyable than the DFW-LAX that I flew on DAL and AA.

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

I don't know what map you were looking at, but LAS is not-and I emphatically repeat NOT further west than LAX. I can't imagine how else to prove it other than by looking at a map. But consider this: When flying from LAS to LAX, the plane will depart to the west, turn slightly south, then turn west again. The plane never, and I mean NEVER flies east of Mccarran Int'l.....not without turning back.

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

LAX:
34 deg n latitude
118.2 deg w longitude

LAS
36.2 deg n latitude
115.1 deg w longitude

This should lay this issue to rest.


25 Jmc1975 : From what I hear from other SWA employees and through the grapevine, they're ordering the A3XX. Actually to be honest, I've heard that in light of the
26 Goingboeing : My bad Matt -I should have said Reno. At any rate, with LAX and LAS being only about 250 miles apart, don't you think BWI-LAS would pretty much qualif
27 LHMark : Yeah. It's not the aim of every airline to grow into a monster international carrier. WN knows what it does best and, surprisingly for a large corpora
28 TimeForFlight : I hope Southwest will expand beyond their 737s one day. I read that one reason for their success was that they stick to only 737. Unlike other unsucce
29 AussieErj145 : There is one more interesting idea which will happen one day. Some time Boeing will stop producing the 737, Then Southwest will be forced to introduce
30 Flygga : ATTN: Goingboeing You have LAS and RNO mixed up. It is actually RNO that is further west that LAX. Richard Silagi
31 Pablo : Southwest needs to enter the New York area market and increase the number of passengers it carries before it can go international.
32 Post contains images Dash8isgreat : I don't think we'll ever see a WN bird going transatlantic, but I do think that expanding into the Canadian market would be good for them. Besides, it
33 AerLingus : With the transAtlantic range of the newer 737's, it does not seem too likely that they would need to 'go wide' as it was so eloquently put.
34 EIPremier : Reno had a single family---the MD-80. Unless you count the short-lived QQ Express, Reno only operated I 81/2s, 87s and 90s. Southwest operates 732s, 7
35 Hypermike : Pablo wrote: ------------------------------- Southwest needs to enter the New York area market and increase the number of passengers it carries before
36 Critter_592 : I know Southwest knows what they are doing, but i dont think it will hurt them to have a few daily's to JFK, from LAS;DAL;MCI;MDW and maybe FLL. On th
37 TxAgKuwait : I expect that Boeing will continue to build 737s for Southwest as long as they continue to buy them. What you are more apt to see is a "next-next gene
38 Critter_592 : What will they call it? The 737-900 is already in the making! Will the 738/739 be in production forever, just being reconfigered and flight decks upda
39 N312RC : will there be a 737-1000?
40 Sqman : I feel if Southwest ever went into Boeing wide body they would go with the 757. plus if they ever start flying say to mex,sal,gua,sap etc. they would
41 Goingboeing : I doubt you'll see WN heading for Hawaii anytime soon. Tex will tell you that they thought about it several years back -using an L1011 out of Houston
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