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Wings Separating And Plane Crashes ( Video )  
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17454 times:

Sorry if the video doesn't work , here is the link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkwTcvDh-nU

Any idea what happened ?

[Edited 2006-08-20 23:37:12]


A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4762 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17398 times:

i think i read that the a/c made a turn or transition that put too much force on the wings causing them to literally snap off the fuselage


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8188 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17344 times:

The huge trim change is what triggered it, at least at that moment. Obviously a pre-existing structural weakness, tankers aren't supposed to shed their wings when they release their payload.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17283 times:

Well, if it happened right after dropping the load, then the plane wants to climb instantly putting stress on the wing/fuselage connection. If there is a weakness in the wing root, then I can believe that caused it. I suppose a tanker would have weakened wing roots from the stress of doing that over and over again during its career.

Bombers, such as the B-52, when they drop their load, it is not instantaneous. The bombs cascade out in sequence limiting the stress at that wing connection. Water bombers release that huge load all at once. Considering that most of them are old airplanes to being with, I wonder how many others are out there waiting to fail like that.



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17168 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

This is a crash that occurred in California back in 2002 resulting in the fatalities of the 3 crewmembers. Cause of the accident was a crack in the main wingspar. Here's a link to the NTSB summary report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020621X00954&key=1



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineFlyboy14295 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17124 times:

That must have been a big boom when it hit the ground. Another reason to make a few passes over the fire when dropping a heavy load.


Greetings from New York. "Take It to the limit." -Eagles
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17111 times:

Early C-130 had a big problem with cracking wing spars.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineN911ME From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 12623 times:

Yeah - it was a C-130A from Hawkins & Powers Aviation in Greybull, WY (N130HP).....very sad story, but not an uncommon occurrence for many older heavy air tankers.

User currently offlineStretch From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 9493 times:

All the more reason to have that 747 tanker do some drops. I remember watching the news of this event, truely sad to see 3 souls lost in such a way.

~Stretch


User currently offlineFanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2005 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 7793 times:

The Martin 202 had the same problem, and the entire fleet had to be grounded until the problem was fixed. Northwest lost at least two Martins in this fashion, which prompted the airline to sell of its fleet. This was not a problem with the later, much-improved Martin 404.

I heard that the early Lockheed L-188 Electra models had similar problems with wings. And there was the heart-rending crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War, claiming the lives of hundreds of children who were being airlifted to safey.



The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
User currently offlineN867BX From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.


User currently offlineDc10s4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

In the end the cause of the crash was inadequate terrain separation.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 6803 times:

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
I heard that the early Lockheed L-188 Electra models had similar problems with wings. And there was the heart-rending crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War, claiming the lives of hundreds of children who were being airlifted to safey.

If you're implying that the C-5 crash occurred because the wings failed or otherwise had a problem, I think that's incorrect. From globalsecurity.org:

On 04 April 1975 the US was involved in the evacuation of more than 2,000 Vietnamese orphans out of Saigon as North Vietnamese forces marched on the city. A C-5, which was returning to the Philippines after delivering war material, and a C-9 were loaded with children from Saigon'' orphanages and female government employees. These children were to be adopted into families in the United States and Europe. The mission, named Operation Babylift, was the first of more than 30 planned. Workers at the airport carried the children -- more than 100 infants and 140 older children -- into the C-5 one by one. A majority of them were only 2 years and younger. Almost half the children sat in the cargo compartment of the aircraft below, while the remainder sat in the troop compartment upstairs. At 23,000 feet the aft door was torn from the aircraft. The safety investigation would later reveal one of the door locks failed and created a pressure overload on all the other locks. When that happened, it blew out the doors, and the C-5 then experienced a rapid decompression. When the aft door blew out it severed three of the four hydraulic systems as well as the flight controls. The explosion ripped a large hole near the rear of the aircraft. The pilot diverted the plane and headed back to Tan Son Nhut AB, but the C-5 couldn't make it. The pilot made an emergency landing in a rice paddy, within two miles of the base, shearing off the cargo compartment of the aircraft. Many of the orphans were still asleep when the aircraft hit the ground, bounced up, and began to break apart as it hit again and slid to a stop. The entire cargo bay of the aircraft sheared off as the plane tore across the field. Of the 140 passengers below only six survived. Eleven out of the 29 crewmembers lost their lives. The nurses and technicians aboard did their best to save as many children as they could. Thanks to the aircrew's flying skills, however, 176 of the 314 people on board survived, including 150 orphans.

The wings may have separated here, but that was a consequence of the emergency landing in the rice paddy, and not the initiator of the accident itself.


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 6803 times:

That is seriously scary
God knows what was going through the minds of the pilots in their final seconds.
Thanks
PR


User currently offlineCruzinAltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 6510 times:

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.



Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 11):
In the end the cause of the crash was inadequate terrain separation.

Both of you are going to hell! On a side note, since you made me laugh out loud, I'll meet you there!


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7429 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 5072 times:
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Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Early C-130 had a big problem with cracking wing spars.

It also led to a discovery that all C-130A/B/E and early H, and H-2 aircraft would be susceptible to to a centrewing box failure. The USAF doesn't have any A or B models anymore, but still has a sizable number of C-130E/H models in the inventory, and many were discovered with extensive corrosion and cracks in the centre wingbox and faulty wingspars



Made from jets!
User currently offlineRichM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Quoting RichM (Reply 16):
The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.

Crews will fly the plane right down to the ground. My guess is they were trying to right it and level out even though it would ahve done no good.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting RichM (Reply 16):
The last few seconds must have been awful for the crew as they learn their fate.

Perhaps, but looking at the time counter on the video, it looks like the wings folded up at 00:04 and impact was about 00:10.

Between still trying to control it as EAAUADL mentions and their proximity to the ground at the time of the failure, I'd guess that the 6 seconds was over before they knew it... Hope so, anyways...


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
The Martin 202 had the same problem

Martin suffered metal fatigue due to poorly designed wing attachment just outboard the engines. Poor metallurgy choices.

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
similar problems with wings

Propeller auto-procession (due to some structural weakness such as a hard landing or damage to struts inside engine/ reduction gear) combined with Harmonic Coupling with the wing itself which led to catastrophic flutter transmitted to a wing (or both!) wings.

Quoting Fanofjets (Reply 9):
crash of a C-5A Galaxy during the Vietnam War

As previously described by "OPNLguy", the aircraft lost the rear cargo ramp whilst under pressure and catastrophic damage to hydraulic system and flight controls occurred.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineCusaeng From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Any idea what happened ?

Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.

Thats just not funny !



I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
User currently offlineHawker From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

Getting off the point a bit, but there was a recent Galaxy crash where the plane belly landed due to engine failure and both the nose and tail broke off.

This suggests to me that double decker fuselages are somewhat fragile, but this is a high wing design.

So with the 380 being a low wing design would it be about the same crashworthy as a 777 etc?


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3086 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

The C-130 and civil model L-382 (they are different)have an ultimate life of the wings....I believe that the wings have to be thrown away at 35,000 hours if they are Type 1 and 2 wings. If they are type 3 wings their ultimate life shoots up to 75000 hours.( i am going by memory as it has been a while since i had anything to do in QA with the Herc.)

There are a lot of inspections on wingbox.....

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineUsair320 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting N867BX (Reply 10):
Pilot error.

The pilot failed to maintain control after wings broke off.

Errr buddie. Planes are uncontrollable without there wings.  laughing  no offence intended here just thought i'de point it out to you.


User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 23):
Errr buddie. Planes are uncontrollable without there wings. laughing no offence intended here just thought i'de point it out to you.

get some new sarcasm detectors.


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