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2nd UA Flight EWR-LAX Gone!?!  
User currently offlineSwank300 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 49 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 18 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Hey guys,

Anybody know what happened to the UA's evening daily departure from EWR to LAX. SFO still has two, but it looks like LAX now only has the one in the morning....have you guys heard anything?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (8 years 18 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Yeah I've noticed that, looks like EWR-LAX is down to one daily 757. Sad, they used to fly EWR-LAX with 5 daily frequencies prior to 9-11.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 17 hours ago) and read 5471 times:

I saw only 2 A319s on EWR-SFO.

Is UAL's PS service from JFK causing traffic to shift to JFK from EWR?


User currently offlineJLDWC From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

I was on UAL98 on July 25th, and besides the 752 that i was on, I didnt see any other UA 757's at EWR.

User currently offlineBALAX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

AA used to be 3X daily on this route and chopped it down to 2X since last winter. Not enough demand on the market?

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting BALAX (Reply 4):
Not enough demand on the market?

Honestly, I get the impression that the other legacy carriers have almost entirely ceded EWR to CO. You never hear of anyone but CO ramping up or adding service to EWR, while CO has gone gangbusters, clogging up the airport with tons of flights.

I'm not too sure why EWR is such a special case, however, as you don't see the non-hub carriers drop nearly all their service at other carriers' hubs. Take DFW, for example. It's a major AA hub, but everyone else still has a normal amount of service to the airport.

Is there something that unique/difficult about CO @ EWR that keeps everyone else away?


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

EWR is a problem for carriers on several layers....congestion on the field...congestion from flts already overhead therefore waiting on space...cost on the airport for facilities....the very (too?) close relationship the airport has with CO...

End result is it becomes a tradeoff...at what expense level do you keep your own tin in there to work for your frequent flyers and are they generating enough to justify it.

UAL, in recent months, has been pulling down at both JFK and EWR so obviously their market research and financial analysis says use the aircraft somewhere else where they can work on their strengths.

Is this a CO effect...probably. Are they setting themselves up for the CO merger? just kidding.....


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Quoting BALAX (Reply 4):
Not enough demand on the market?

I think it has more to do with CO, they are up to 7 daily EWR-SFO and 7 daily including 2-3 757-300s on EWR-LAX.

Keep in mind, even with UAL's EWR-LAX being down to one daily flight UAL has more flights from EWR than JFK and LGA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
I'm not too sure why EWR is such a special case, however, as you don't see the non-hub carriers drop nearly all their service at other carriers' hubs. Take DFW, for example. It's a major AA hub, but everyone else still has a normal amount of service to the airport.

Have you ever taken a look at ATL?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2353 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Keep in mind, even with UAL's EWR-LAX being down to one daily flight UAL has more flights from EWR than JFK and LGA.

Because EWR is New York's premier airport right?  sarcastic 



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineStyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

In the end it probably just boils down to an oversaturated market. Just like said above, EWR is not the best place to fly out of due to the logistical nightmare when you have soo much as a sneeze it can cause delays.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 6):
EWR is a problem for carriers on several layers....congestion on the field...congestion from flts already overhead therefore waiting on space...cost on the airport for facilities....the very (too?) close relationship the airport has with CO...

Yes they do have a close relationship, but every other carrier that has a hub works closely with the operator of their respective airport. CO has made significant investments in EWR and should expect those investments to have some sort of return. But it is not all roses either, when Jetblue arrived the Port Authority took them in with open arms as well.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

This is just another example of legacy carriers continuing to focus on hubs/focus cities. . . none of which UAL has at EWR.

UAL is no longer the giant they were prior to 9/11 and all p2p service has stopped. Now, LAX is a UAL hub, but EWR/JFK/LGA are considered New York.

They already serve the LAX and SFO hubs with the premium service planes from JFK. They serve ORD and DEN from LGA. And they serve IAD from LGA and JFK.

EWR has service to LAX and SFO plus ORD, DEN, and IAD. But the LAX and SFO service is a token presence. If it's down to one flight, it will be pulled soon.

There is no doubt a large market between LA and NY, but UAL is ceding that market more and more to CO at EWR, DL and AA at JFK, and to some extent B6 at JFK.

PJ


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

UA flies P.S. equipped aircraft to JFK, and non-P.S. aircraft to EWR. If you want to go to NYC, and you live in LA, and you are a UA freqent flier, which airport are you going to fly to?

Quite honestly it makes a ton of sense for UA to cut LAX/SFO-EWR altogether, if they are considering JFK/LGA/EWR the same market. The high-yield passengers will continue to fly P.S. to JFK. People that really need to go to EWR will either connect or fly CO.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Its simple....

1. UA is reducing its presence in the NYC area including EWR, which was once a very important station for UA. I guess that EWR no longer warrants two flights per day to UA's "hub but not really a hub" at LAX.

2. CO is growing stronger and becoming more dominant at EWR.....and CO is doing especially well with its transcon services; on 5-6 hour flights, being a full service carrier does give CO certain advantage.....pax do appreciate a complimentery meal and something to drink on these longer segments. ALso, CO's schedule with frequent departures is a competitive bonus on the transcon routes.

3. UA's east coast future is at IAD.....UA made that clear with the recent JFK-London deal with DL and the decision to transfer the JFK-NRT route to IAD. Give UA credit for looking forward and focusing on markets where it can dominate, succeed and make money. The EWR-LAX route is simply not an important part of UA's future, so they are reducing service and may eventually drop the route.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 hour ago) and read 4605 times:

Its obvious that CO is really dominating the EWR-LAX market. In late 2004, AA had 767s on the route 3x a day with full service amenities. AA is still holding out on the route, and my flight this weekend (flight 43) is completely full. As for UA, it is surprising that they keep cutting frequencies, but understandable about how they want to build up their hubs.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 hour ago) and read 4585 times:

"3. UA's east coast future is at IAD.....UA made that clear with the recent JFK-London deal with DL and the decision to transfer the JFK-NRT route to IAD. Give UA credit for looking forward and focusing on markets where it can dominate, succeed and make money. The EWR-LAX route is simply not an important part of UA's future, so they are reducing service and may eventually drop the route."


I agree with most of that, except the part about giving UA credit. The fact that they can not make money on two of the world's premier routes NYC-LON and NYC-Tokyo is a VERY large problem.

And don't tell me about competition and low yields, etc etc on these routes. These are premium routes that airlines would love to fly if they could get the route.

UA was no longer competitive on the JFK-LHR route because they widdled down service from 3 times daily to once a day. This went against AA with 5 a day and BA with 7 a day.

UA is no longer competitive on EWR-LAX because they widdled that route down from 5 a day to once a day. And they will be off that route soon too.

NY is the nation's largest city. LA is the nation's second largest city. And LA is a UAL hub. If they can't sustain and dominate a route like this, it is not Continental's fault. Nor any other airline.

It's because they have infrequent service compared to AA, DL, and CO. And it's because their in-flight economy service is far off base with the guys in Terminal C.

So why would I fly UAL to LAX from EWR? Perhaps a cheap fare. And that is the problem with UAL from EWR to LAX and JFK to LHR/NRT.

Don't blame the routes, don't blame the competition, and don't CREDIT UAL.

PJ


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 15):
NY is the nation's largest city. LA is the nation's second largest city. And LA is a UAL hub. If they can't sustain and dominate a route like this, it is not Continental's fault. Nor any other airline.

It's because they have infrequent service compared to AA, DL, and CO. And it's because their in-flight economy service is far off base with the guys in Terminal C.

They don't need to fly LAX-EWR, because they fly LAX-JFK. Focusing on strengths IS something that that should be commended. "NY is the nation's largest city and LA is the nation's second largest city" means absolutely nothing.

United IS sustaining their LAX-JFK service, so they are sustaining their route between the nation's largest & second-largest cities. They are obviously choosing to focus on JFK for trans-cons, rather than EWR.

And I'd be hard-pressed to see any advantages CO's Y class service has on UA's P.S. service.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years ago) and read 4524 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 16):
And I'd be hard-pressed to see any advantages CO's Y class service has on UA's P.S. service.

Free Food?


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years ago) and read 4497 times:

Has UA changed? When I was on P.S. last December I didn't pay for food.

User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years ago) and read 4497 times:

The biggest hole in UA's domestic route system is NYC and historicly that has always been the case. Prior to 2000 they were attempting to add flights to NYC but obviously short term survival swamped any other business strategy. They are retreating for now since there are already plenty of flights LAX-JFK (although LAX lost one frequency to SFO) and EWR was apparently not profitable.

[Edited 2006-08-21 22:05:26]

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years ago) and read 4463 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 18):
Has UA changed? When I was on P.S. last December I didn't pay for food.

Yeah, it did. UAL now has food for purchase on the PS 757 transon flights in coach, its a recent change. (I think this is a mistake.....premium service does not go together with the food for purchase idea in my mind.)


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years ago) and read 4463 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 16):
They don't need to fly LAX-EWR, because they fly LAX-JFK.

After all, CO doesn't exactly fly JFK-LAX non-stop, do they?

CO flies to all three airports in NYC, but only fly transcons into EWR. 7 transcon routes out of EWR, zero out of JFK. So what?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years ago) and read 4429 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
UAL now has food for purchase on the PS 757 transon flights in coach, its a recent change. (I think this is a mistake.....premium service does not go together with the food for purchase idea in my mind.)

Totally agreed. That's disappointing to hear. Oh well, UA still has 100% Economy Plus in Y, true F & C classes with lie-flat seats, and best of all, Channel 9.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
After all, CO doesn't exactly fly JFK-LAX non-stop, do they?

CO flies to all three airports in NYC, but only fly transcons into EWR. 7 transcon routes out of EWR, zero out of JFK. So what?

Exactly.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Here's some food for thought for the conspiracy folks, UAL reducing their NYC presence to remove concerns about a CO/UAL merger.

Sell the JFK-London rights to DL because if/when they merge with CO they would have duplicate authorities, somewhat similar with NRT. CO already has EWR-NRT so might as well move the JFK route to IAD.

Im not saying this as matter of fact, Im just using some speculation to tie in this topic with the various CO/UAL merger topics which are being discussed here, in the various media outlets (Chicago Tribune etc) and the many investor chat boards.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4295 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
Here's some food for thought for the conspiracy folks, UAL reducing their NYC presence to remove concerns about a CO/UAL merger.

Sell the JFK-London rights to DL because if/when they merge with CO they would have duplicate authorities, somewhat similar with NRT. CO already has EWR-NRT so might as well move the JFK route to IAD.

Very interesting....it's not the first time I've heard such musings, but it seems to make so much sense given the possible merger rumors we've been hearing so much about in the past few months.


25 Coewraatysaz : United at EWR is turning into a line station. They decided to axe 1 of the 2 daily flights to LAX because they lost a lot of aircraft during the bankr
26 N62NA : No they don't (unfortunately).
27 Flyswim : I was on UA 956 SFO-JFK on July 27 and the meal was free in Y+. Can anyone confirm if this change occured in August?
28 STT757 : Another thing I have noticed, UAL has abandoned (or vacated) their new Cargo building at EWR, the building was completed in March, 2001. It's right ne
29 Post contains images RampRat74 : We still have 57 mechanics in EWR. They must do all their work on the line or on the hardstand now. I remember management telling us how great the new
30 Planecrazy2 : Sorry to say p.s. has been buy on board since August 4.[Edited 2006-08-22 09:28:54]
31 UAL777UK : Exactly, so which ever way you butter it up, FF's on UA are always going to go to JFK more often than EWR. No other airline touches the PS Service UA
32 COewrAAtysAZ : The hangar and the cargo building are no longer used by United Airlines, nor are they owned by United anymore.
33 STT757 : I met an older gentleman once who came into my family business from time to time, I noticed a Retired UAL mechanic sticker and got to talking with hi
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