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Alaska Airlines LGB Incident  
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Just another Alaska Airlines accident.

What is going on with Alaska! What happened to one of the best airlines in the US if not the best domestic airline in the world espically to us Seattle residents.

http://www.komotv.com/stories/45030.htm

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5289 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

These seem to be unrelated, typical kinds of things that happen in aviation. I don't think anything particular is going on with Alaska, and it looks like they handled each malfunction properly and safely. Perhaps they just get a smidge more media scrutiny when something goes wrong.

User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
These seem to be unrelated, typical kinds of things that happen in aviation. I don't think anything particular is going on with Alaska, and it looks like they handled each malfunction properly and safely. Perhaps they just get a smidge more media scrutiny when something goes wrong.

Yea that is so true and I think Seattle-based media does tend to put a little more into the story since it is a SEA based airline. I will continue to always fly AS. I do miss how they used to be though.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

No comment. Edited because I was coughing.

[Edited 2006-08-21 18:19:55]


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting United777 (Thread starter):
What is going on with Alaska! What happened to one of the best airlines in the US if not the best domestic airline in the world espically to us Seattle residents.

AS has been going downhill for years, and their problems are much deeper than these occasional maintenance scares that we hear about in the news (in all fairness to AS, these things occur at all airlines).

I used to think it was a good thing to have a strong, local airline serving the Seattle market. Now, I wish CO, DL, AA, or someone else would just buy this company so we could benefit from the hub of a safe and reliable airline instead of the vastly sub-par service we're forced to deal with now. End rant.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5198 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
I used to think it was a good thing to have a strong, local airline serving the Seattle market. Now, I wish CO, DL, AA, or someone else would just buy this company so we could benefit from the hub of a safe and reliable airline instead of the vastly sub-par service we're forced to deal with now.

Stronger hub by a major? Like AA at SJC? Like AA at RNO? Like AA at STL? Like DL at DFW? Like CO at DEN? Sorry, but if you think for a minute that any airline would buy AS then keep the SEA hub largely untouched is frankly out-of-touch. UA and NW had large operations at SEA and decided to downsize to mostly hub flying. AS has cultivated its market presence in the PNW and to become just another AA or DL "focus city" is not a change for the better.

The fact of the matter is, AS is not as great as they once were - no decades old carrier today is - but they have given the SEA and PDX marketplace a lot more service than we would have received from a carrier with 5 or 6 hubs. They are a decent airline that offers us in SEA a lot of nonstop options that nobody else does or would, and QX is the icing on the cake. Or are we to believe it'd be better to have American Eagle or Delta Connection?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
AS has been going downhill for years, and their problems are much deeper than these occasional maintenance scares that we hear about in the news (in all fairness to AS, these things occur at all airlines).

I used to think it was a good thing to have a strong, local airline serving the Seattle market. Now, I wish CO, DL, AA, or someone else would just buy this company so we could benefit from the hub of a safe and reliable airline instead of the vastly sub-par service we're forced to deal with now. End rant.

1,000000000000 percent agreed. AS CEO Bill Ayer has done an excellent job with raising the stock prices. In all of his cost cutting, the customer focus has gone down the drain. AS was once a diamond in the skies. Now it is a gold plated ring.

While the stock is doing great, the cost cutting will catch up to it. The vision Ayer and his team has, is just a short term vision. Once things start to shake, you will see his team run with the cash. Nothing beats the golden parachute.

Very sad state that AS is in. The founders would have never let AS turn into what it has become.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9690 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5152 times:

Yeah I've seen AS in the news too much recently. There was that bomb threat at LAX, decompression and emergency landing in SEA, and now an evacuation. Sure they are all routing emergencies and not life threatening, but I just hope things don't end up in something worse.

However good job to the crew for evacuating people. It's good that there were only limited injuries, since an evacuation of a full flight will often cause broken bones and other injuries.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 5):
The fact of the matter is, AS is not as great as they once were - no decades old carrier today is - but they have given the SEA and PDX marketplace a lot more service than we would have received from a carrier with 5 or 6 hubs. They are a decent airline that offers us in SEA a lot of nonstop options that nobody else does or would, and QX is the icing on the cake. Or are we to believe it'd be better to have American Eagle or Delta Connection?

Right, but what's the point of a nonstop to Reno when it's over 3 hours late (as in the case of my co-workers last night). Or what does it matter if you can fly nonstop to LGB, but you have to evacuate because the airline can't seem to properly maintain it's MD-80 fleet? Do you realize that last week AS was operating on-time records in the mid-50% range?

I do agree with you on QX - they are the best regional carrier in the sky. And AS does have some of the best employees in the sky. However, as someone who has bent over backwards to give the airline the benefit of the doubt, and continues to be let down, I'm willing to make the connection in SLC, SFO, DEN, wherever to avoid all these problems.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
Or what does it matter if you can fly nonstop to LGB, but you have to evacuate because the airline can't seem to properly maintain it's MD-80 fleet?

Not exactly an everyday occurrance. And that is why there are nearly 40 738's on order for the next few years. Now, if you have any additional feedback on this incident as to how it relates to AS's maintenance, I'd be interested in hearing about it. So far, I didn't think anything had been released.

Don't worry, though, F9Animal will be back here supporting it as a near-disaster.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
Do you realize that last week AS was operating on-time records in the mid-50% range?

That's pitiful. I think they are running so tight that there is zero room for error. They had the same problem last summer and the answer is definitely to build in some slack.

They are juggling the balls like every other carrier (and business), and sometimes the balls get dropped. UA, NW, DL, and USx2 dropped the balls so much they ended up in BK. CO and WN, in particular, seem to be doing well keeping them all in the air. AS - they are somewhere in the middle. They are not perfect, and they make mistakes, but there employees are getting paid and they aren't about to go under.

I don't think it's easy running an airline, and simply saying "They need to do this or that" may not really solve anything, and may cause another ball to drop. Take another plane out as reserve to cover scheduling issues, and you just added in a big chunk of cost that is coming out of somebody's pocket - nothing is free.

Would I want to be on a flight with smoke in it? No. I have a friend who suffered a NW 757 emergency landing in MT TWICE in six months. This was in the '90's and the planes were fairly young. Was it their maintenance? Were they lousy management? Were they a bad airline? Or was it the crap that happens sometimes?

For what it's worth, I have my own issues with AS, particularly from a customer service standpoint in SEA, and I would happily fly another carrier on a given route if the schedule and fares were similar, but I don't spend my time worrying that the AS plane is gonna fall out of the sky or that some morons are rolling in their bonus money at HQ while the rest of the employees eat bread and water.

It's an airline in the 21st century - tough business to be in right now.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
I'm willing to make the connection in SLC, SFO, DEN, wherever to avoid all these problems.

Good. Because if they go under or are bought out, that's what you'll be doing.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

RwSEA,

I'm gonna throw a  Smile in here, because frankly I sound angry in my posts, and I'm not. I disagree with some of the stuff said about AS, particularly when they are made to sound somehow unique in the challenges they face, but I actually enjoy the discussion and look forward to your response.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
These seem to be unrelated, typical kinds of things that happen in aviation. I don't think anything particular is going on with Alaska, and it looks like they handled each malfunction properly and safely. Perhaps they just get a smidge more media scrutiny when something goes wrong.

Is this to say that similar incidents with other airlines are mostly or completely ignored by the media?

If the incidents that have been happening at Alaska on a regularly recurring basis over the past year are indeed "typical kinds of things that happen in aviation" we should then be reading of about 4-7 times as many incidents of similar nature happening with each of the U.S. legacy airlines and Southwest, inasmuch as all operate about 4-7 times more aircraft than Alaska, which means, overall, we should be hearing of at least 25 such incidents with other U.S. airlines for each incident involving Alaska Airlines. Unless, of course, the media is somehow missing or failing to report incidents such as Alaska's most recent (the subject of this topic) when they happen at other airlines.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5036 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
Don't worry, though, F9Animal will be back here supporting it as a near-disaster.

Now Dave, what would make you think I would do such a thing? You must not know me that well.

Now it was just a simple smoke in the cabin incident. Nothing more... Just a typical day, ya know. But wait..... Where there is smoke, there is usually fire!!!! OMG! This could have been a very serious disaster! What if the emergency slides would not have worked? AND WHAT IF!!!!!!!  Smile

Thanks for the support Dave!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Part of it is that the media is salivating over the chance to be the 'first one on scene' to get ahold of some grisly wreckage footage (as in B6 ATA 32 broadcast). Every little contingency is all over the airwaves now.

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

Thanks for the reply, see more below.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 5):
Stronger hub by a major? Like AA at SJC? Like AA at RNO? Like AA at STL? Like DL at DFW? Like CO at DEN? Sorry, but if you think for a minute that any airline would buy AS then keep the SEA hub largely untouched is frankly out-of-touch. UA and NW had large operations at SEA and decided to downsize to mostly hub flying. AS has cultivated its market presence in the PNW and to become just another AA or DL "focus city" is not a change for the better.

Well, I don't think the examples you used are quite as valid with SEA. Let's go through them one by one, but SEA is generally much larger and has more O&D than the cities you mentioned:

SJC - SEA has a larger O&D base, and also, AA competed with hubs just up the road at SFO (UA) and OAK (WN).

RNO - Very small city, and much lower O&D than SEA. Tiny Corporate Base.

STL - Smaller than SEA, not ideally positioned as an international gateway, smaller corporate base.

DFW - DL's failure there was due to the size of AA's hub and their failure to establish a following in the market.

DEN - Again, a smaller city that probably couldn't support two full-blown legacy hubs.

Not to knock any of the cities above (certainly am not), but I don't think these are valid examples of why SEA couldn't be a legacy hub. The city has strong O&D, and is ideally positioned as a gateway to Asia if someone wanted to give it a go.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
Not exactly an everyday occurrance. And that is why there are nearly 40 738's on order for the next few years. Now, if you have any additional feedback on this incident as to how it relates to AS's maintenance, I'd be interested in hearing about it. So far, I didn't think anything had been released.

I agree that the 738's can't come soon enough. The vast majority of my delays have been on the MD-80's. People on this board suggest that DL may be interested in them, but it doesn't seem that AS is maintaining them well enough that another carrier would want to deal with them.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
That's pitiful. I think they are running so tight that there is zero room for error. They had the same problem last summer and the answer is definitely to build in some slack.

Agreed - AS clearly hasn't learned anything from their summer from hell last year.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 9):
I don't think it's easy running an airline, and simply saying "They need to do this or that" may not really solve anything, and may cause another ball to drop.

I agree - I think you hit the nail on the head that AS really needs to build more slack into their schedule, as well as continue to phase out the MD fleet. I think these two things would really help tackle the problems.

That said, I would just like AS to fix their problems. It's really bad when you have to schedule flights hours earlier because AS just can't be relied upon to deliver you reliably to your destination. It's nice having choices with them, but what's the point of all these options when it's a crap shoot each time you pull up to the airport?


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 1):
These seem to be unrelated, typical kinds of things that happen in aviation. I don't think anything particular is going on with Alaska, and it looks like they handled each malfunction properly and safely. Perhaps they just get a smidge more media scrutiny when something goes wrong.

Typical? But, as an airline, you have to face it when it happens. And for the passengers on any flight that faces these "typical" issues, you have to appreciate their fears they faced. That is why they call the media. Jumping off of a slide on a runway is not typical. Walking onto a jetway is typical. Each and every passenger on that flight had a moment or two of fear. That is not typical.

The crews did exactly the right things, and performed very well.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

Lookie what I found!!!

http://www.fulldisclosure.net/flash/VideoBlogs/VideoBlog34.php



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5697 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
Not to knock any of the cities above (certainly am not), but I don't think these are valid examples of why SEA couldn't be a legacy hub. The city has strong O&D, and is ideally positioned as a gateway to Asia if someone wanted to give it a go.

I understand, and agree that SEA has a lot going for it. But if someone wanted to give it a go, they wouldn't need to wait for AS to be gone. The codeshares are there already, so people are connecting to Asia/Europe through SEA. I just don't believe for a moment that the existing service levels would be maintained.

My guess would be a transition to what you see with some of these other former hubs: Mainline to the hub cities, perhaps a few international frequencies, and the rest being lower frequency RJ's times to connect to the primary banks. I would imagine a 30-50% reduction in operations if someone took over - just a guess, but my feeling on it.

I don't think AA (for example) would be chomping at the bit to retain any of the transcons, the secondary PDX schedule, or much of the QX route structure. It would be geared to a SEA focus city mentality, and the rest would be melded in to the combined carriers structure.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
I agree that the 738's can't come soon enough. The vast majority of my delays have been on the MD-80's. People on this board suggest that DL may be interested in them, but it doesn't seem that AS is maintaining them well enough that another carrier would want to deal with them.

Was this conjecture, or did actual DL employees state this as fact? I just want to know the context of the comments, or if it is what you interpreted as the reason that they didn't move on the AS MD's.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 16):
Lookie what I found!!!

Great, start a new thread about it then. Then folks interested in that topic could be aware of it's existence and contribute to your topic.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineFlyboy14295 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4869 times:

I was on 6 AS flights less than a day ago and had no problems with them whatsoever. I would still fly with them unless something deadly happened in the future.


Greetings from New York. "Take It to the limit." -Eagles
User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

The aircraft was still in LGB when I passed thru this morning. It was parked on our pad and it looked like the slides where under the tail. I didn't have my camera with me.


JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineJetpilot21 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Point of information,
The Seattle local newspapers did a rather scathing report on MD-80 fluid fumes in the cabin of Alaska MD-80 airplanes a number of years ago. Most of that story at the time was pure media hyperactivity. But, the fact remains, skydrol and engine oil fumes are highly toxic and irritating and passengers should never be exposed to them. At the time, Alaska and Boeing did a very thorough analysis to try to find and fix any problems. Not getting any credit from the media for their efforts.

And then there were the flight attendant lawsuits. Which also proved to be more hype than reality as I remember it.

Not sure these latest incidents are related to the same problem, but don't be surprised if the news media drags out these old news stories to remind everyone of the past.


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Anyone know the tail # of the MD-80 @ LGB?

User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

Quoting 28L28L (Reply 21):
Anyone know the tail # of the MD-80 @ LGB?

Aircraft 944.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 14):
I agree that the 738's can't come soon enough. The vast majority of my delays have been on the MD-80's. People on this board suggest that DL may be interested in them, but it doesn't seem that AS is maintaining them well enough that another carrier would want to deal with them.

Was this conjecture, or did actual DL employees state this as fact? I just want to know the context of the comments, or if it is what you interpreted as the reason that they didn't move on the AS MD's.

I don't really know why DL would want them, doesn't DL operate -88's?
Alaska's fleet is -82/-83's.


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