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Air France A320 And B737 In Martinique?  
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10053 times:

Hi All,

In the Sept/Oct edition of "Airports Of The World" magazine, the feature on Martinique shows both A320 and B737 of Air France. Obviously they are not used transat so where do they fly to? Is it mainline AF or a franchise?

What other european airlines do this sort of thing?

Thanks for help.

S

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2383 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10020 times:

It is one mainline A320-200.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10003 times:

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 1):
It is one mainline A320-200.

Sorry but what?

On page 60 its an A320 but its a B733 shown being tugged on page 61.

Anyone have more info?

Thanks in advance


User currently offlineDernierVirage From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2006, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

AF have a service linking together Cayenne/Fort de France/Pointe à Pitre/Port-au-Prince/Miami, which is why you would see a 320 in Martinique. I think it is indeed a 320 that is used, but I am not 100% sure.

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9947 times:

AFAIK, AF mainline maintains one narrowbody aircraft (A320), operating between Miami and a few Caribbean destinations such as Haiti and Guadeloupe.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Lopez



IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andre Quiros



User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9875 times:

Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 2):
On page 60 its an A320 but its a B733 shown being tugged on page 61.

The B733 was used previously. It was replaced in the mid-90s by an A320. The aircraft is fully operated by AF, with AF Crews.


User currently offlineUsair320 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.

User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
It was replaced in the mid-90s by an A320.

In the spring 2001 I see still the B737 at PTP. The newly delivered A320 replace the B737 in july of the same year.


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9722 times:

As said in earlier posts, Air France operates an A-320 3Carribbean Division, linking the French territories (including Guyana) with neighbouring countries, mainly the US through ATL and MIA.
The plane there is F-GKXC with a special cabin config, the same as used for the "longer haul" Europe Div.
The 320 replaced the 737 then posted there three / four years ago. That's how old those pics are.
Ho^pe it helps.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9681 times:

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6):
AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.

They did. They don't anymore. All 733s are gone, only a bunch of 735s are left.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9675 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
AFAIK, AF mainline maintains one narrowbody aircraft (A320), operating between Miami and a few Caribbean destinations such as Haiti and Guadeloupe.



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.

Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?

IB's hub IIRC has been moved to ... Madrid! perhaps I'm wrong though... And that was not right after 9/11 but 2004 (again, who can confirm please?)



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9647 times:

Further to my post #8.
Air France did own some 733s, inherited from Aeromaritime during the UTA take over.
One of them, and as far as I know the only one used, was F-GFUJ which had flown in the Antilles division up to 2001 when it was replaced by a 320.
here is the proof :

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Justin Cederholm




Contrail designer
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6):
AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.

AF did have 733s, and a 733 did operate the caribbean route until it was replaced with the A320 now operated.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10):
Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?

Also, consider that the AF is connecting Miami with islands that are technically part of France (atleast that is true for Guadeloupe and Martinique), thus, the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne. The AF caribbean route is an interesting and sentimental one.....routes like this are rarely seen these days.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10):
IB's hub IIRC has been moved to ... Madrid! perhaps I'm wrong though... And that was not right after 9/11 but 2004 (again, who can confirm

You are correct.....IB closed down its MIA mini-hub since the post 9/11 US transit regulations were too burdensome and made the MIA hub very problematic for IB. While there was talk of moving the operation to Cancun or Santo Domingo, in the long run, IB ended up introdcuing new nonstop flights from MAD to certain Central American cities and entered into code shares to provide service to other cities once served via MIA.


User currently offlineFoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9597 times:

Hell of a routing alternating days:
Airport

Cayenne, Rochambeau (CAY) - FRENCH GUIANA

12:45 pm on August 21,2006


Fort de France, Lamentin (FDF) - MARTINIQUE

1:50 pm on August 21,2006
Connecting flight

Fort de France, Lamentin (FDF) - MARTINIQUE

2:40 pm on August 21,2006


Pointe à Pitre, Pole Caraibes (PTP) - GUADELOUPE

3:15 pm on August 21,2006
Connecting flight

Pointe à Pitre, Pole Caraibes (PTP) - GUADELOUPE

4:15 pm on August 21,2006


Port au Prince, Toussaint Louverture (PAP) - HAITI

6:10 pm on August 21,2006
Connecting flight

Port au Prince, Toussaint Louverture (PAP) - HAITI

7:10 pm on August 21,2006


Miami, Miami Intl (MIA) - USA

9:00 pm on August 21,2006

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineOB1783P From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne. The AF caribbean route is an interesting and sentimental one.....routes like this are rarely seen these days.

It is my dream to visit Guyane (especially the river between Guyane and Suriname). Has been for years. But it is incredibly expensive and time consuming. Of course the AF Island Hopper would be a hoot, but MIA to CAY is $1000 r/t and 8 hours. Plus MIA is not convenient for me: coming from the mid-atlantic, I'd have to spend a night there to make the early departure.

I once calculated it would be faster and cheaper to go through CDG!

I could fly to POS from my region easily and cheaply. But there, the situation gets dicey too (Suriname Airways? BWIA?). I have also determined once that I might as well fly to PBM and take the bus from there. Sounds like fun, no?



I've flown thousands of miles and I can tell you it's a lot safer than crossing the street!
User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9546 times:

The 737 replaced a 727-200 that was also previously used in the Caribbean.


My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9546 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
Also, consider that the AF is connecting Miami with islands that are technically part of France (atleast that is true for Guadeloupe and Martinique), thus, the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne

Funny way of putting things.
Is Hawai technically part of the USA ?
Guyane, Martinique and Guadeloupe are french overseas "departements", Guyane also having the priviledges of a "region";
Hope it helps.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9524 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):

How does this work for flightdeck and cabin crew? Are they all locally sourced or are they rotated through the Euro/Mid-Fleet ex France?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 days ago) and read 9448 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 8):
As said in earlier posts, Air France operates an A-320 3Carribbean Division, linking the French territories (including Guyana) with neighbouring countries, mainly the US through ATL and MIA.

It does not fly to Atlanta. The A320 is flies the following routes:

MoWeSa: CAY-PAP-PTP-FDF-MIA
TuThSu: MIA-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY
Fr: CAY-FDF-PTP-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY



a.
User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9396 times:

I remember seeing the IB A319's. I saw about 3 in an hour and was thinking. What the heck are they doing down here? Later i heard about their carribean services. Only once have i ever seen the AF A320. It looks so weird in MIA.


AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9394 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10):
Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?

I don't see why not. AF3943 departs MIA for PAP on Tue, Thu, Sun at 8:45am and arrives in PAP at 1:50pm. You'd have to overnight in Miami if you're flying from CDG but it seems possible.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.

The IB MIA hub wasn't closed until September 30th 2004, and then on October 1st of the same year, direct flights from MAD to GUA, SJO and PTY were restarted. However, 9/11 is one of the reasons why the MIA hub was closed (along with the introduction of Transit Visas for non-Visa Waiver countries). AF and them basing an A320 is a bit different than IB's feeder flights to the MIA hub.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21):
However, 9/11 is one of the reasons why the MIA hub was closed (along with the introduction of Transit Visas for non-Visa Waiver countries)

New rules that were a result of 9/11 - the cancelation of the transit without visa program - was pretty much the only reason the hub closed.



a.
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6):
AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.

Oh no ?

F-GFUA, F-GFUD, F-GFUE, F-GFUJ, F-GHVM, F-GHVN, F-GHVO, F-GRFA, F-GRFB, F-GRFC.
All are B737-300. All were operated by Air France until 2003.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6):
AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.

Funny, I flew at least twice on an AF B733 - I guess I must have been on drugs then.  crazy 

Quoting Pihero (Reply 8):
The plane there is F-GKXC with a special cabin config, the same as used for the "longer haul" Europe Div.

In what way is the configuration different from the short-haul configured examples?



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
25 FlySSC : Not really. F-GKXC is configured in a single Y class of 171 seats. This config is very similar to the one of the aircraft based at ORY and used on th
26 RootsAir : flights are as follows MAD-GUA-SJO-MAD MAD-SJO-MAD MAD-SJO-PTY-MAD At first it were DC9's ,then MD87 s and finally A319s that were based in the MIA H
27 Pihero : FAs are recruited locally. Flight deck personnel are, as you said rotated from the medium haul division, for two years on a senioruty basis. And equi
28 MRURUN : Thanks Pihero! fillfillfill
29 MCOflyer : Very intresting. I think this is a 5th freedom route if i'm not mistaken. MCOflyer
30 TriStar500 : Only PAP-MIA, all the others are between France (FDF, PTP, CAY) and neigboring countries.
31 Post contains images Airbazar : Last I checked 2004 came after 2001. I didn't say right after 9/11 In any case, I was making a generalization that meant that IB closing of their MIA
32 Embajador3 : Do not forget that IB had an hub in EZE back in the 70's with DC-9s. MIA's hub was closed in 2004 and IB was poised to move it to HAV, however, they d
33 Gte439u : Where did IB fly from it's EZE operation in the '70s?
34 MIASkies : Another rare sight is the Martinair A320 in full color scheme side by side to the Martinair 763.... so we still see some Euro rarities around at MIA
35 LTU932 : That aircraft is wetleased from TA to serve SJO from MIA and MCO, as a feeder flight. MP stopped direct flights into SJO in 2004 and the word is that
36 Post contains links and images TriStar500 : For a short time, Miami Air also operated a B738 for MP in their colorscheme from MIA to SJO. View Large View MediumPhoto © Diego Alonso Romero A
37 Post contains links and images LTU932 : Correct. That was when MP started "outsourcing" their SJO operations. The lease ended after a year, and since then, MP uses a TA A320 (it's actually
38 TriStar500 : If I recall correctly, MP also used operate/ still operates (?) an EMB-120 as a crew shuttle within the Carribean in order to transfer crews between l
39 Post contains images Embajador3 : I think this picture does explain everything. As at MIA, those DC-9s where used as feeders. Hope it helps
40 Columba : Those were the days. Great picture of two awesome birds. Makes me miss MDD even more.
41 Gte439u : What were the destinations to which IB flew from EZE when IB had the hub there?
42 AA767400 : ASU/MVD/SCL if I am not mistaken.
43 FPOST : (Quoting FLYSSC) Oh no ? F-GFUA, F-GFUD, F-GFUE, F-GFUJ, F-GHVM, F-GHVN, F-GHVO, F-GRFA, F-GRFB, F-GRFC. All are B737-300. All were operated by Air Fr
44 Post contains images David L : I see we now have two Paris based AF pilots here. We'll definitely need to double-check before posting anything relating to AF now - less chance of "
45 RayPettit : Just for the record, the AF presence in the Caribbean goes back a long way, and I remember that one or two of their Caravelles were elusive at Heathro
46 Post contains images Se210 : AF SE210 at MIA (lower left hand corner)
47 TriStar500 : Fascinating pictures! Does anyone know, when the Se210 was replaced by the B727 in the Antilles? Didn't there used to be some ERJ-145 with AF flight n
48 Coyoteguy : I took the AF 733 once from FDF to MIA with stops in PTP and PAP. We had to get off the plane in PTP and PAP, and I remember that there was limited el
49 MCOflyer : Could I fly PAP-MIA on AF? MCOflyer
50 MAH4546 : AF was flying Miami-Caribbean before they were ever flying Miami-Paris. Why not?
51 FPOST : From what I know the last Caravelle was retired from the AF fleet in 1981 so the 727 must have came into service in the early 80's. One of my father's
52 Post contains links and images FlySSC : Of course you could ! why not ? Dep. PAP 07:10PM AF3942 Arr. MIA 09:00PM - Nonstop A320 - Sa, Mo, We. Dep. MIA 08:45AM AF3943 Arr. PAP 10:35AM - Nons
53 Camille38 : Air France and Air Caraibes are in partnership...isn't it? AF is still flying PTP or FDF to CCS?
54 FlySSC : No. No more flights to CCS from PTP or/and FDF No. The pertnership ended when Air Caraïbes decided to go long haul and "compete" with AF on PTP/FDF-
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