Speedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 677 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 7814 times:
Hi All,
In the Sept/Oct edition of "Airports Of The World" magazine, the feature on Martinique shows both A320 and B737 of Air France. Obviously they are not used transat so where do they fly to? Is it mainline AF or a franchise?
What other european airlines do this sort of thing?
DernierVirage From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2006, 228 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 7737 times:
AF have a service linking together Cayenne/Fort de France/Pointe à Pitre/Port-au-Prince/Miami, which is why you would see a 320 in Martinique. I think it is indeed a 320 that is used, but I am not 100% sure.
IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3489 posts, RR: 72 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7483 times:
As said in earlier posts, Air France operates an A-320 3Carribbean Division, linking the French territories (including Guyana) with neighbouring countries, mainly the US through ATL and MIA.
The plane there is F-GKXC with a special cabin config, the same as used for the "longer haul" Europe Div.
The 320 replaced the 737 then posted there three / four years ago. That's how old those pics are.
Ho^pe it helps.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7442 times:
Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6): AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.
They did. They don't anymore. All 733s are gone, only a bunch of 735s are left.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7436 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4): AFAIK, AF mainline maintains one narrowbody aircraft (A320), operating between Miami and a few Caribbean destinations such as Haiti and Guadeloupe.
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4): IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.
Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?
IB's hub IIRC has been moved to ... Madrid! perhaps I'm wrong though... And that was not right after 9/11 but 2004 (again, who can confirm please?)
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3489 posts, RR: 72 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7408 times:
Further to my post #8.
Air France did own some 733s, inherited from Aeromaritime during the UTA take over.
One of them, and as far as I know the only one used, was F-GFUJ which had flown in the Antilles division up to 2001 when it was replaced by a 320.
here is the proof :
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7400 times:
Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6): AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.
AF did have 733s, and a 733 did operate the caribbean route until it was replaced with the A320 now operated.
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10): Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?
Also, consider that the AF is connecting Miami with islands that are technically part of France (atleast that is true for Guadeloupe and Martinique), thus, the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne. The AF caribbean route is an interesting and sentimental one.....routes like this are rarely seen these days.
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10): IB's hub IIRC has been moved to ... Madrid! perhaps I'm wrong though... And that was not right after 9/11 but 2004 (again, who can confirm
You are correct.....IB closed down its MIA mini-hub since the post 9/11 US transit regulations were too burdensome and made the MIA hub very problematic for IB. While there was talk of moving the operation to Cancun or Santo Domingo, in the long run, IB ended up introdcuing new nonstop flights from MAD to certain Central American cities and entered into code shares to provide service to other cities once served via MIA.
OB1783P From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 325 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7326 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12): the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne. The AF caribbean route is an interesting and sentimental one.....routes like this are rarely seen these days.
It is my dream to visit Guyane (especially the river between Guyane and Suriname). Has been for years. But it is incredibly expensive and time consuming. Of course the AF Island Hopper would be a hoot, but MIA to CAY is $1000 r/t and 8 hours. Plus MIA is not convenient for me: coming from the mid-atlantic, I'd have to spend a night there to make the early departure.
I once calculated it would be faster and cheaper to go through CDG!
I could fly to POS from my region easily and cheaply. But there, the situation gets dicey too (Suriname Airways? BWIA?). I have also determined once that I might as well fly to PBM and take the bus from there. Sounds like fun, no?
I've flown thousands of miles and I can tell you it's a lot safer than crossing the street!
Falcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1292 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7307 times:
The 737 replaced a 727-200 that was also previously used in the Caribbean.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3489 posts, RR: 72 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7307 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12): Also, consider that the AF is connecting Miami with islands that are technically part of France (atleast that is true for Guadeloupe and Martinique), thus, the flight island hops from Miami to Cayenne
Funny way of putting things.
Is Hawai technically part of the USA ?
Guyane, Martinique and Guadeloupe are french overseas "departements", Guyane also having the priviledges of a "region";
Hope it helps.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7209 times:
Quoting Pihero (Reply 8): As said in earlier posts, Air France operates an A-320 3Carribbean Division, linking the French territories (including Guyana) with neighbouring countries, mainly the US through ATL and MIA.
It does not fly to Atlanta. The A320 is flies the following routes:
SJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7157 times:
I remember seeing the IB A319's. I saw about 3 in an hour and was thinking. What the heck are they doing down here? Later i heard about their carribean services. Only once have i ever seen the AF A320. It looks so weird in MIA.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6868 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7155 times:
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 10): Well, the difference here is mostly that AF's hub is rather FDF and PTP than MIA. Or can one fly AF to Haiti through MIA too?
I don't see why not. AF3943 departs MIA for PAP on Tue, Thu, Sun at 8:45am and arrives in PAP at 1:50pm. You'd have to overnight in Miami if you're flying from CDG but it seems possible.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7107 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4): IB used to operate a hub at MIA, flying A319's but after 9/11 they closed it down. I can't remember at this time whether the hub was moved to somewhere in C.America.
The IB MIA hub wasn't closed until September 30th 2004, and then on October 1st of the same year, direct flights from MAD to GUA, SJO and PTY were restarted. However, 9/11 is one of the reasons why the MIA hub was closed (along with the introduction of Transit Visas for non-Visa Waiver countries). AF and them basing an A320 is a bit different than IB's feeder flights to the MIA hub.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7076 times:
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21): However, 9/11 is one of the reasons why the MIA hub was closed (along with the introduction of Transit Visas for non-Visa Waiver countries)
New rules that were a result of 9/11 - the cancelation of the transit without visa program - was pretty much the only reason the hub closed.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 48 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6964 times:
Quoting Usair320 (Reply 6): AF never had any 733. I think your thinking of the 735.
Funny, I flew at least twice on an AF B733 - I guess I must have been on drugs then.
Quoting Pihero (Reply 8): The plane there is F-GKXC with a special cabin config, the same as used for the "longer haul" Europe Div.
In what way is the configuration different from the short-haul configured examples?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
25 FlySSC: Not really. F-GKXC is configured in a single Y class of 171 seats. This config is very similar to the one of the aircraft based at ORY and used on th
26 RootsAir: flights are as follows MAD-GUA-SJO-MAD MAD-SJO-MAD MAD-SJO-PTY-MAD At first it were DC9's ,then MD87 s and finally A319s that were based in the MIA H
27 Pihero: FAs are recruited locally. Flight deck personnel are, as you said rotated from the medium haul division, for two years on a senioruty basis. And equi
29 MCOflyer: Very intresting. I think this is a 5th freedom route if i'm not mistaken. MCOflyer
30 TriStar500: Only PAP-MIA, all the others are between France (FDF, PTP, CAY) and neigboring countries.
31 Airbazar: Last I checked 2004 came after 2001. I didn't say right after 9/11 In any case, I was making a generalization that meant that IB closing of their MIA
32 Embajador3: Do not forget that IB had an hub in EZE back in the 70's with DC-9s. MIA's hub was closed in 2004 and IB was poised to move it to HAV, however, they d
33 Gte439u: Where did IB fly from it's EZE operation in the '70s?
34 MIASkies: Another rare sight is the Martinair A320 in full color scheme side by side to the Martinair 763.... so we still see some Euro rarities around at MIA
35 LTU932: That aircraft is wetleased from TA to serve SJO from MIA and MCO, as a feeder flight. MP stopped direct flights into SJO in 2004 and the word is that
37 LTU932: Correct. That was when MP started "outsourcing" their SJO operations. The lease ended after a year, and since then, MP uses a TA A320 (it's actually
38 TriStar500: If I recall correctly, MP also used operate/ still operates (?) an EMB-120 as a crew shuttle within the Carribean in order to transfer crews between l
39 Embajador3: I think this picture does explain everything. As at MIA, those DC-9s where used as feeders. Hope it helps
40 Columba: Those were the days. Great picture of two awesome birds. Makes me miss MDD even more.
41 Gte439u: What were the destinations to which IB flew from EZE when IB had the hub there?
43 FPOST: (Quoting FLYSSC) Oh no ? F-GFUA, F-GFUD, F-GFUE, F-GFUJ, F-GHVM, F-GHVN, F-GHVO, F-GRFA, F-GRFB, F-GRFC. All are B737-300. All were operated by Air Fr
44 David L: I see we now have two Paris based AF pilots here. We'll definitely need to double-check before posting anything relating to AF now - less chance of "
45 RayPettit: Just for the record, the AF presence in the Caribbean goes back a long way, and I remember that one or two of their Caravelles were elusive at Heathro
46 Se210: AF SE210 at MIA (lower left hand corner)
47 TriStar500: Fascinating pictures! Does anyone know, when the Se210 was replaced by the B727 in the Antilles? Didn't there used to be some ERJ-145 with AF flight n
48 Coyoteguy: I took the AF 733 once from FDF to MIA with stops in PTP and PAP. We had to get off the plane in PTP and PAP, and I remember that there was limited el
50 MAH4546: AF was flying Miami-Caribbean before they were ever flying Miami-Paris. Why not?
51 FPOST: From what I know the last Caravelle was retired from the AF fleet in 1981 so the 727 must have came into service in the early 80's. One of my father's
52 FlySSC: Of course you could ! why not ? Dep. PAP 07:10PM AF3942 Arr. MIA 09:00PM - Nonstop A320 - Sa, Mo, We. Dep. MIA 08:45AM AF3943 Arr. PAP 10:35AM - Nons
53 Camille38: Air France and Air Caraibes are in partnership...isn't it? AF is still flying PTP or FDF to CCS?
54 FlySSC: No. No more flights to CCS from PTP or/and FDF No. The pertnership ended when Air Caraïbes decided to go long haul and "compete" with AF on PTP/FDF-
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