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Ryanair Actually Had Business Class&FF Program!  
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Whilst reading the history of Ryanair I found out and was extremely surprised that once in their lifetime they had Business class and a Frequent flyer program !
Now that's a very big surprise when one knows what the airline does to cut expenses.

Check under 1989
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php


Interesting history !


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3934 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Blimey! How times have changed...

That was an interesting read... I really never thought that Ryanair was such a small airline not so long ago...!


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

yup, those ATR's were fun trips. Indeed I remember flying the 1-11's when they were in romanian style...train style. You had a few rows of seats facing each other!!! Indeed, prior to, or just at the beginning of their current incarnation, they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours.

Their FR travel scheme was much more generous than EI's, too!!! If only they'd stuck with it.


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 2):
yup, those ATR's were fun trips. Indeed I remember flying the 1-11's when they were in romanian style...train style. You had a few rows of seats facing each other!!! Indeed, prior to, or just at the beginning of their current incarnation, they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours.

Their FR travel scheme was much more generous than EI's, too!!! If only they'd stuck with it.

If they'd stuck to it, they wouldn't be here today. The airline was run by guy called Eugene O'Neill (if I remember right) and he had plans to challenge EI and BA, but on their own terms, (i.e. with Business class, FFP etc) and they even ordered A320's. However with the losses they incurred, the airline was in serious trouble, so the Ryan family put some more money in, fired Eugene and Tony Ryan asked an accountant who had done some work for him to head up the new airline.

Enter Michael O'Leary who scrapped the A320 order, cut back on the routes, and in one of the best moves ever, moved the airline's Ldn base from Luton to Stansted just as Stansted had opened it's new terminal. After that, MOL has never looked back.



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 3):

Hmm, I dont know, a very personable airline has turned into the behemoth that we know and loath. Yes, it was not financially successful in the first years, but remind me again how many years it took for the Squire Group to be successful or indeed VS? Perhaps if theyd stuck with the gradual growth, we could have had a valid response to EI that may have prodded changes much earlier to that carrier (a la BA) instead of post 9/11 changes that finally, eventually did emerge. But, we'll never know.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 4):
a very personable airline has turned into the behemoth that we know and loath.

Again, the figures tell a completely different story.

Sadly, FR is, at least in the UK and Ireland, very often misperceived - but the facts tell the truth.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 978 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 2):
they had an A320 all painted up in their then colours

No, this was an Airbus demonstrator in Airbus house colours. Ryanair titles and an aircraft name ("The City of Dublin") were added for demonstration to the company in March 1988. Picture here:

http://www.irishairpics.com/database/photo/1003447/


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

 razz  BUT WE'll NEVER KNOW.


Just in case you miss the point.

Old FR was never given a chance. They could be even richer now and not all smokes and mirrors with bulk purchase/sale/leaseback etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As for figures, I would love to see the numbers of REPEAT CUSTOMERS from FR, you wouldnt have those would you?
Whats going to happen when the EU stops expanding? How are the Morrocco routes doing?


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
As for figures, I would love to see the numbers of REPEAT CUSTOMERS from FR, you wouldnt have those would you?

Of course. 83.17% of FR's customers have flown them before.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
Whats going to happen when the EU stops expanding?

Ask any aviation analyst and they'll agree that there is terrific potential in Europe because European integration has only just begun. There are countless countries which will adopt the open skies policy (e.g. Serbia on 1st January 2007), particularly Turkey (pop. over 72m) and Romania (over 20m). Moreover, Germany, for example, is relatively unserved - and it has Europe's largest population (over 80m) and its largest market potential (over 120m).

There are very exciting times ahead.

All of this confirms why FR is expected to carry at least 100m by 2012 and, by 2014, have at least 413 738s.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
How are the Morrocco routes doing?

With a one-way all-in fare of £15.09 from LTN to FEZ, I imagine very well. Indeed, FR has said it'll carry about 1m customers to and from Morocco and will have about 20 routes to/from there.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4706 times:

IMAGINING a route is doing very well, doesnt suffice I'm afraid.

As I have asked in the other thread dealing with FR, where does this 83% figure come from, who conducted the survey, what was the survey pool, when was it carried out?

Germany is in the EU and has been for many years, so why havnt FR got a larger hold of the market? What happens IF turkey doesnt join? Or,at best it ends there for a generation or so? What is FR going to do then? Aviation analysts may say expansion of Europe may have just begun, however, European Academics and Euro-Crats have their doubts. Indeed the European Neighbourhood Policy, off the back of which many of these open skies deals were formulated, has had its funding gradually, and quietly, reduced. (The ENP provided little tidbits such as openskies to tempt 'potential members' and/or 'neighbours' into opening their markets to the EU.)


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
As I have asked in the other thread dealing with FR, where does this 83% figure come from, who conducted the survey, what was the survey pool, when was it carried out?

See the other thread.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
Germany is in the EU and has been for many years, so why havnt FR got a larger hold of the market?

Because it has been doing other things. HOWEVER, it is still the market leader - with over 6% - on Germany-intra-Europe LCC flights. AB is second and U2 is third.

FR is expected to have up to 6 more bases in Germany.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
What is FR going to do then?

As I said, there is terrific potential left in Europe. Doubt all you want, but it's true.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 9):
IMAGINING a route is doing very well, doesnt suffice I'm afraid.

Well I never. You imply it's not doing well, so YOU prove evidence to that end.

[Edited 2006-08-22 20:38:04]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
Sadly, FR is, at least in the UK and Ireland, very often misperceived - but the facts tell the truth.

What do you expect? People cheering for cutting any kind of amenity?


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4657 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 11):
What do you expect? People cheering for cutting any kind of amenity?

Yep. Because through FR's cost-cutting, it delivers precisely what its customers most want and value: the lowest fares (and the best punctuality). It is just misperceived in the UK and Ireland. However, that is changing. And, essentially, the figures prove the truth about customer experiences.

After 13 hours at my desk, I'm off home. Goodnight.  Smile



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
Yep. Because through FR's cost-cutting, it delivers precisely what its customers most want and value: the lowest fares (and the best punctuality). It is just misperceived in the UK and Ireland. However, that is changing. And, essentially, the figures prove the truth about customer experiences.

It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

And "best punctuality" is relative. If some airstrips cannot be served because of foggy weather and flights have to be cancelled I'd rather prefer a delay of some minutes when flying from a primary airport. Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

And all the talk about "the cheapest fares" is ridiculous - as soon as FR gains a monopoly in a market expect the "cheapest fares" to disappear before the day ends.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Shame he's gone, some of his statements are misleading. For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

I post this as a link since this is the most relevant of the Davy documents.

Pearson, if you could provide a link to your statement of 83%, then I would be most grateful.

Lastly, Pearson, I simply asked a question

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 7):
How are the Morrocco routes doing?

and DID NOT imply. You have asserted otherwise and I await proof if possible.

I do hope you answer these Pearson.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7624 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 3):
Enter Michael O'Leary who scrapped the A320 order, cut back on the routes, and in one of the best moves ever, moved the airline's Ldn base from Luton to Stansted just as Stansted had opened it's new terminal.

Having built the new STN terminal BAA planned to use the congestion at LHR to fill it. It tried to limit growth at LHR and also tried to prevent airlines not already operating there from starting services to LHR effectively forcing new traffic into STN and LGW. This plan met with severe opposition particularly from American airlines. So, on the day that the new STN terminal opened, BAA announced a change of policy that was to turn STN and its new terminal into a white elephant.

The Managing Director at BAA Stansted Ltd was Terry Morgan. He had to announce that fifteen or more airlines that had signed up to use STN had changed their minds and were going to use LHR instead. Tony Ryan, the founder of Ryanair, and Michael O'Leary saw an opportunity. MOL outlined his ambitious growth plans to Morgan and negotiated a huge discount in STN charges. So Ryanair moved its London hub from LTN to STN.

Ryanair still has a deal giving it a discount at STN related to the volume of traffic it generates. The Morgan perspective here was to encourage Ryanair to open up new routes from STN and substantially grow the number of passengers. When it opens a new route BAA STN gives FR a very heavily discounted price. As the route matures so the price rises. Although the deal has been renegotiated several times over the last fifteen years , its basic structure is in place today.

Details of the deal have never been revealed. However it has been said that BAA charge Ryanair around 17 per cent of the normal fee per passenger. This suggests that BAA effectively contributes around £10 a passenger for a return trip through STN compared to the full charge. What is not clear is what deals, if any, other airlines may have negotiated.

More of the above can be found in the book 'Ryanair. How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe' by Siobhan Creaton published by Aurum.


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

Good book it is too, havnt Air Berlin negotiated similar, and if they have they surely EZY would have too.

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4295 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):
For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

Again, can you not research? It is very simple to find.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):

Pearson, if you could provide a link to your statement of 83%, then I would be most grateful.

Now, based on your inability to research and your probable inability to read a thick document, I draw your attention to the March 2006 independent report on FR by Davy Stockbrokers. The easiest way to find it is by visiting: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about...age=Invest&sec=atreports&cov=davy. I can't remember which page the figure is on, but it is at the beginning of the survey interpretation, which is between pages 1 and 10. Enjoy.

No doubt you - Mr Thinks He knows Most - will now argue against what the industry analyst and expert has stated, in a fashion indicative of someone who thinks he knows most - but doesn't.

Now, who shall I believe? An obviously very biased person with very limited knowledge - you - or an industry analyst and expert? My, what a difficult decision.

[Edited 2006-08-23 13:03:34]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4223 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Interestingly, apparently 'we all' loathe FR, and people dont return.
Pe@rsons clearly shown the true facts, and I can back that up with personal experience.
Interestingly, I flew FR with my mates this year, we were impressed with what we got for what we paid, and will reyurn to them again. Out of us, one of us had already flown before, and had previously found the airline to live to its standards and was happy to re-fly.
I know relatives who have flown FR and found them to be good VFM.
So, lets stop the FR bashing, and the silly assumptions, when clearly, yes FR might not be the most luxurious, but they get the job done. And cheaply. And at £30rtn should you expect BA pricing?

Back on topic, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair is an interesting read.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4174 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

They don't have to deliver to everybody, they only have to deliver to enough customers to keep them going along nicely. They don't claim to be the best airline for everybody. Legacy airlines don't deliver to customers who can't afford to fly with them or prefer not to pay, even indirectly, for the extras.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

You get what you pay for. If you want cheap flights with no frills, Ryanair does the job and clearly a lot of people think so.

I prefer the extras you get with legacy carriers but you can't argue with the fact that Ryanair's model is working very well.


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4108 times:

My my, Pearson, how touchy you are over an AIRLINE!!! Misquoting me, not following my link as above. THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FIGURE(S) YOU HAVE GIVEN ME. I have read the document in question it is the one I linked. It is not there, I reread, but again, give me a page and paragraph and I will humbly apologise. Till then..........

As for what area of the aviation business I'm in, well, lets just say I work in a very REGULATED office!!!

Its a shame your incapable of proving your assertions, but then, it appears I misjudged your capabilities and have been blinded by your huff. Reminds me of BA staff in the Mid to late 90's, they just didnt see it coming!

Aerosexuals, was a phrase that M O'l used once wasnt it?


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4124 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4080 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):

Since you're clearly incapable of reading, I'll spell it all out for you.

Davy Stockbroker's report, Page 7:

What is the main purpose of your journey:

Business: 23.15%
Leisure: 37.57%
VFR: 39.29%

Have you ever flown Ryanair before:

Yes: 83.17%
No: 16.83%


Your Age

Under 18: 0.23%
18-24: 9.84%
25-34: 24.37%
35-44: 21.59%
45-54: 22.31%
55-64: 17.30%
65+: 4.36%

PAGE 8

How long did you wait to check in?

No queue: 16.12%
01-10 minutes: 42.65%
11-20 minutes: 25.47%
21-30 minutes: 9.75%
31-60 minutes: 4.46%
1 hour+: 1.66%

Friendliness of staff?

Excellent: 29.22%
Good: 52.53%
Average: 14.74%
Poor: 2.15%
Very Poor: 1.36%

I can't be bothered with the rest, but its all on pages 8-11.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4066 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):
Misquoting me, not following my link as above. THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FIGURE(S) YOU HAVE GIVEN ME. I have read the document in question it is the one I linked. It is not there, I reread, but again, give me a page and paragraph and I will humbly apologise. Till then..........

It is there. I read it an hour ago. The problem is you can't read.

Planesarecool who CAN read read it and copied-and-pasted some of it.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 21):
Since you're clearly incapable of reading, I'll spell it all out for you.

LMAO. He clearly is incapable of reading! Wait until he replies with 'these aren't proper facts...' LOL.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 19):
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
It probably delivers to a number of customers what they want - but not to everybody. And those who expect more than a flying bus tour at the lowest possible service level will never accept their offering.

They don't have to deliver to everybody, they only have to deliver to enough customers to keep them going along nicely. They don't claim to be the best airline for everybody. Legacy airlines don't deliver to customers who can't afford to fly with them or prefer not to pay, even indirectly, for the extras.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
Also, if anything goes wrong (no matter who or what is responsible) I prefer to have a carrier which cares about its customers.

You get what you pay for. If you want cheap flights with no frills, Ryanair does the job and clearly a lot of people think so.

I prefer the extras you get with legacy carriers but you can't argue with the fact that Ryanair's model is working very well.

Hear, hear! What a fantastic reply. One of the best I have read - and from someone who doesn't fly FR.

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 20):
As for what area of the aviation business I'm in, well, lets just say I work in a very REGULATED office!!!

Its a shame your incapable of proving your assertions, but then, it appears I misjudged your capabilities and have been blinded by your huff.

I am surprised you work at all, given your inability to construct proper, legible sentences with the correct punctuation. Still, they say educational standards are slipping. And don't even get me started on not being able to read. But then, nobody's perfect.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4002 times:

Quoting MRURUN (Reply 14):
For one, there is not mention of the 83% figure as he outlines above in the Davy reports that I have just read through on the FR website.

I think I have a name for people like you.... AIRLINE SNOB.

I have over 1mn airmiles in my accounts, have flown over 700 times and until 2004 I made fun of everyone who flew Ryanair...

Then I bought a Ryanair Ticket for Poland, for 1/2 the price of BA, LO etc..
and thought oh hell what am I doing...

At the airport, I arrived 4 hours early, brought my own toilet roll, tea bags and blanket..

Crept towards the shiny 737, stalked past the front door, around the wing to the rear steps... closed my eyes took a deep breath and climbed up the stairs...

In the Cabin, I opened my eyes.. dived for a seat, breathed in shrunk myself down and crouched by a Seat I had mistaken for a suitcase... and realised it was a seat...

then as my nerves settled I realised...

The plane was new, the seats were clean, the seats were the same width as everyone else, they served tea and coffee and their was toilet rolls in the lavvy.

Even more.. they flew on time, landed early and my luggage had not been sold on a market in east London.


Seriously mate..

get over yourself.. Ryanair is an airline like any other... you check in, you get a boarding pass, you get on as quick as you can, you grab a seat, hold on to your pants and fly away... only invariably they are cheaper.

I still fly SNOB-AIR but when Ryanair is more practical and cheaper.. I fly them too.

You should try it... imagine far away hithero unknown airfields in the middle of no where as opposed to major terminals, cowboy landings on cobble stone runways...aint it great.

And if you save 50 quid... then go again somewhere else next week, instead of getting 250 airmiles and paying £50 more for the priviledge.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
25 David L : Thanks. I just get a bit irked by the "it doesn't suit me so no-one else should be allowed" approach. I'd be just as irked if an LCC fan tried to tel
26 Post contains images Pe@rson : That high? When I flew STN-KRK in May, I paid about £14.97 one-way including tax. GDN-STN, a little less. Looks as though you were ripped-off if you
27 PlaneHunter : Check the quote I replied to. Someone wondered about why FR is allegedly "misperceived" and I explained why it is rated as "low quality" by many peop
28 Post contains images Planesarecool : So do I - but then again i only pay £2 for first class travel anywhere in the country Exactly, yet some people still expect a service comparable to
29 Pe@rson : I understand your argument, P.H., but I disagree with it: if customers wanted a better product, they would flock to the alternatives instead, thereby
30 CalAir : I seriously cannot understand why some on here slate FR so much! Obviously some people will have had poor experiences with them and so this is going t
31 Pe@rson : Incidentally, FR has slightly modified its front page: it now includes a list of new flights in 2006 in an easy-to-read, at-a-glance format, complete
32 RyanairCRL : where are the apologies ?
33 Post contains images David L : And I was giving my views on the same points. Note I didn't say you were wrong.
34 Post contains images Pe@rson : He ran off thoroughly defeated.
36 Post contains images MRURUN : Found it!!! Well, Pearson, my apologies, I even had the document printed with me while I was away and read it too. Your 'friend' Planes.... pointed t
37 Pe@rson : LOL. That statement utterly confirms your complete lack of knowledge and disregards any credibility you might have left. No doubt you'll now argue en
38 MRURUN : Now, pearson, I was quoting, TONGUE IN CHEEK, from that! I will not mention the BAC1-11's and the (in)famous ex Romanian Air Force Pilots.
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