Lazyshaun From United Kingdom (England), joined May 2005, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 32535 times:
Just seen it on BBC news 24.
Disappeared of the radar over Ukraine, Ukraine govt reporting it is on fire on the ground. Tu-154, 170 pax.
Very scetchy details at the mo.
PNQIAD From India, joined May 2006, 522 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 32535 times:
CNN.com banner is saying the following: "A Russian passenger jet with 170 people aboard disappeared from radar screens after sending an SOS message and an emergency official said it probably had crashed, The Associated Press reports. "
Sampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 604 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 32535 times:
Found this off Drudge Report with a link to breitbart.com
MOSCOW
A Russian passenger jet with 170 people aboard disappeared from radar screens after sending a SOS message Tuesday and probably crashed, an emergency official said. The plane, on its way from the Black Sea resort of Anapa to St. Petersburg, disappeared from radar screens over Ukraine, Emergency Situations Ministry spokeswoman Yulia Stadnikova said.
Lazyshaun From United Kingdom (England), joined May 2005, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 32266 times:
Quoting ZakHH (Reply 8): believed to have crashed as a result of aging
Quoting ZakHH (Reply 8): Who actually claims to know the cause, when there isn't even reliable information about what really happened?
True, don't start saying thinggs like that unless you know. Everytime a Russian jet crashes, some people are quick to say:"Its because it was old..."
Hiflyer From United States, joined Nov 2004, 1621 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 31800 times:
Report: Russia airliner with 170 aboard crashes
Tuesday, August 22, 2006; Posted: 9:14 a.m. EDT (13:14 GMT)
MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- A Russian plane crashed in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine Tuesday afternoon, according to the news agency Interfax, quoting the Ukrainian Emergencies Ministry.
Russia's state-run RIA Novosti reported wreckage has been found in Ukraine.
Interfax said the Tupolev TU-154 aircraft had about 170 people on board when it crashed about 3:25 p.m.
It was en route from the Black Sea resort town of Anapa to St. Petersburg.
Lazyshaun From United Kingdom (England), joined May 2005, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 31672 times:
BBc says 30 bodies found. Doesn't say whether their dead or alive.
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 4567 posts, RR: 24 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 31672 times:
Jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 316 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 31531 times:
Quote: MOSCOW, August 22 (RIA Novosti) 17:04 - A Russian Tu-154 airliner with 160 passengers and ten crew onboard crashed over eastern Ukraine near the Russian border, emergency services said Tuesday.
Russian television's Channel One reported that 30 bodies had been found at the site of the crash.
"On Tuesday, at 15.39 [local time - 12:39 GMT], a Tu-154 airliner of the [St. Petersburg-based] Pulkovo Airlines ... sent a SOS signal and disappeared from radars," the source said. "Preliminary data suggests that the plane crashed 45 kilometers (30 miles) north of Donetsk."
The plane was en route from the resort of Anapa on the Black Sea in southern Russia to St. Petersburg.
29 COERJ145: Wow, what is up with these russian airliner crashes? RIP
30 Pilotaydin: hey there...wow i just flew there yesterday and the weather was horid enroute, we were trying to dodge CB left and right and it was a rough ride, sux
31 Keego: It was Pulkovo Airlines according to SKY News, Regards, Steve.[Edited 2006-08-22 15:48:40]
32 UN_B732: Wow - Pulkovo generally is safe. Can a Tu-154 seat 170 passengers? I went to http://www.pulkovo.ru but the site appears to be down. -Mr. X
33 Sovietjet: There's only been 3 major crashes involving Russian airliners and only this one is fatal AFAIK. The Il-62 that crashed in April or May and the Russian
34 MH017: According the Pulkovo timetable, the TU154 seats between 132-158...it stated somewhere, there were 160 passengers and 10 crew...full flight !!!
35 ReverseThrust: Sad news. I was flying on a TU154M and TU134A3 just this weekend in Russia with Aeroflot and Aeroflot Nord between Moscow and st. Petersburg. I had a
36 Richierich: Usually when they say "bodies", that implies 'dead'. Sad tragedy in this case. Let's all hope for some survivors but it doesn't sound good.
37 HT: Form http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=376 : Capacity Flightcrew of three or four. Typical single class seating for 158 to 164 at six abrea
38 Keego: Does anyone have any clue as to what caused the crash, a post on this thread said something about ageing. Is this true?
39 Usnseallt82: Just caught this. Sad story indeed. Another Russian crash.
40 ZakHH: Only reliable information so far: Obviously, a fire broke out onboard. Reason unknown. Crew tried to initiate an emergency landing, but was unable to
41 Aleksandar: Sad news indeed May all the dead rest in peace The news can also be found on RIA Novosti website. There were 154 adults, six children and 11 crew on b
43 Afay1: MSNBC is reporting that officials are referring to a fire onboard: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14465000/ They also should be more careful as the Tu-15
44 Lordg: ne1 no how long they had been flying? what stage of flite were they up 2?
45 Jamesontheroad: UPDATE Tuesday, 22 August 2006, 14:06 GMT 15:06 UK From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5274958.stm
47 AirbusA346: Supposedly had a fire on board and then hit turbulence. What sad news Tom.
48 EFCar98: I flew a Pulkovo TU-154 with my family from st petersburg to moscow and back JUST LAST WEEK. it was my first trip on a russian airliner. Before the fl
49 AirbusA346: It has just been reported on Sky News, that the Ukrainian officials think that all 171 people have died in the crash. Tom.
50 ZakHH: German news mag "Der Spiegel", which referred to a statement of an Ukrainian ministry. Thus I considered this information trustworthy. Why was it mor
51 EFCar98: Because its a Soviet era Airliner which is notorious for being less safe than western aircraft. Western airlines have tighter controls, and higher st
52 MERLIN: R.I.P Sad News. Ne 1 with pics of the crashed jet. Rgds
53 Richierich: Huh? The poster is saying that he flew on the same airline, same aircraft-type just last week. While on those flights, he thought about crashing (a m
55 RayChuang: The only way they can start finding out what really happened is to find out what started the fire on the plane before it crashed. They need to check t
56 SU: registration number is 85185. Was built in 1992 and had flown a little over 24000 hours
57 Afay1: Thanks SU! That puts to rest the aging debate. It is (speculatively) looking more like a sad combination of turbulence and lightning, rather than a pi
59 Jamesontheroad: UPDATED INFORMATION FROM THE BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5274958.stm Tuesday, 22 August 2006, 15:09 GMT 16:09 UK [Edited 2006-08-22 17
60 FLY2LIM: You say "only 3 major crashes" like it's an enviable statistic. If there had been 3 major crashes in the US, the world would be in an uproar. FLY2LIM
61 ATA1011Tristar: I have never responded to a post like this before because I never felt I could say anything that would help the topic. However, I read this and saw th
62 ZakHH: So my nose didn't fail me. Would you mind sharing hard facts that support your theory? Pulkovo may be poor in service terms, but I did not hear about
63 Coa747: Just because it was a Soviet era jet doesn't make it unsafe. Even the newest most modern western jet can fail if the airline it belongs to does not ma
65 Skyman: Totally correct. The T-154 is a very good plane even though it is old. The only reason for their problems is bad maintenance.
66 Richierich: Are you kidding? Your nose needs attention because I think you are reading into one post WAY TOO MUCH! Chill out! Heck, the poster did say he flew on
67 AirTran717: I know this thread is like beating a dead dog... but I can't help myself. All of these comments about Russian aircraft being sub par is hogwash. It's
68 FlySSC: . As this aircraft was built in 1992, it is a Russian aircraft, as the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. Anyway, most of the Tu-154 (even built bef
69 AirTran717: Besides, is't it a group of people who design, build, and maintain an aircraft? Isn't it a group of people who govern all of this? And isn't it true t
70 Asturias: Seems there were 45 kids aboard, returning from vacation. Why are there so many kids in accidents From El Mundo This is very sad. May God embrace them
71 DeC: Greek media says it fell into a heavy turbulences’ zone and fire was ignited on board, in the cabin possibly by lightning and at 10000 feet. They tr
72 Kay: That is the first flight I read about that crashed because of turbulence. Is it the first one (turbulence, not windshear)? Kay
73 Spacecadet: Ugh! I'll excuse this because your profile says you're 16-20. The crash happened TODAY. Nothing can be ruled in or out. Nobody can even say definitiv
74 Flyboy14295: Very Sad news. And Spacecadet, you hit your last paragraph right on the money! Let's not make things up and get into a flame war over something that c
75 Richierich: Very sad - I think this picture says it all.
76 Pillowtester: Very sad picture right there, I wouldn't think anybody could survive a total disintegration of the aircraft like that.
77 Richierich: Sadly, I believe you are correct. The latest reports are that there are no survivors from this crash. Couldn't have said it better myself.
78 AerospaceFan: This crash is tragic, indeed. May those who died rest in peace. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those affected. God be with
80 RootsAir: Very sad news. Apparetnly there were many duitch people on board. May they rest in peace
81 RoseFlyer: The Tu-154M is certainly not a very modern plane, but they were made up through the 1990s and many relatively new planes are flying. I remember how m
82 Mortyman: The plane cought fire at 10 000 meters. 45 of the ones killed were children according to Norwegian press.
83 FLY2HMO: Amen brotha . I'm still not too convinced it was lightning. Planes get struck by lightning the whole time, and at most they'll get a round charred sp
84 LTBEWR: An article on MSNBC.com said that the pilot made 3-4 radio calls as had some problem, that may have had problems going above the storm, descended to 1
85 PHKLM: This crash was by no means related to the T54 nor 757 and that has been discussed here on A.net very recently.
86 Vegas005: The TU-154 crashes all the time. In fact it has a history of incidents with over 2500 deaths. Not safe under any circumstances.... 02.19.1973 Aeroflot
87 David L: They need to look at all sorts of things. Oh yes he did... Sorry but I agree with ZakHH. In fairness to Spacecadet, according to the BBC, "Russia say
88 David L: But at the time there was a popular assumtion that the Russian aircraft didn't have TCAS. You have to look at the causes and circumstances before you
89 BillReid: The best way to get news on this is from PRAVDA the russian news agency. For those of us that don't speak russian click on english. http://english.pra
90 Vegas005: Tell that to the 2500 dead folks. The number is astronomically high and is a good indication of the pathetic track record of the aircraft. If you tak
91 David L: There seems to be less information there than on the BBC site.
92 Usair320: Aol.com is reporting 45 children onboard. . It also says a distress call came frome the TU-154 before crashing.
93 Pentrich: A very sad event, may all involved Rest In Peace
94 RJ111: Quoting Vegas005 (Reply 90): Tell that to the 2500 dead folks. The number is astronomically high and is a good indication of the pathetic track record
95 Sovietjet: I don't mean to make it sound good...I'm just saying that the world(US in particular) has the mindset that Russian planes crash everyday when they do
96 LPLAspotter: Is this the one that collided with a USAF C-141 enroute to Ascension Island? LPLAspotter
97 Aleksandar: Hmmm, according to RIA Novosti, there were only six children on board. Well, the reasons for this tragedy are still uncertain. You can find an articl
98 Vegas005: Considering I am a pilot and a mathmatician, if you want to get into satistics I will show you the facts. The only ignorant person here is you. Take
99 Aerobalance: Well, I hope they're looking at the PIC decision making process. I'm assuming this aircraft had wx radar, if so, why the reports of possible lightning
100 PanHAM: yes, that is exactly the one and IIRC it was not the Starlifters crew that was at fault here.
101 David L: Quoting Vegas005 (Reply 98): Considering I am a pilot and a mathmatician, if you want to get into satistics I will show you the facts. The only ignora
102 Aerobalance: Interesting observation. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14465000/ Interfax cited other witnesses as saying the plane was intact when it hit the ground.
103 Lordg: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/u...0/newsid_5276300/bb_wm_5276388.stm No foul play suspected rip
104 Skippy777: I also made a photo of the plane at schiphol http://www.persfoto.com/database/thumbnails.php?album=356 It was not accepted at a.net
105 WhynotTu204: Vegas - considering that you are a pilot and a mathematician - throwing around numbers in the way you do is frankly uneducated and irresponsible. Sta
106 TuRbUleNc3: I cant imagine how it must feel to be onboard an airliner thats going to crash, and i hope i never have to experience the terror they probably went th
107 Noelg: Well if that's your logic that makes an aircraft unsafe, look at this: Boeing 737-200 - 1114 built (only slightly more than the TU-154). 19-Apr-00 Bo
108 David L: Already covered above. There's no way anyone can know that this early.
109 Christeljs: Also a lot of children on this flight. Is that because Russian Schemes are sending kids on holidays? Just like the TU154 and the B757 mid air collici
110 RoseFlyer: That is very true. The US benefits from a fully funded aviation authority that can actually regulate things. Additionally airlines have taken a proac
111 Luxair: This make me very sad as I luv the TU's and Pulkovo RIP Btw, what a bullshit about Russian Aircraft are unsafe!!! They are safe as any western aircraf
112 Jaysit: The news services make this sound like the pilot was making a belly landing at the airport because the landing gear wouldn't deploy. However, pictures
113 Dogfighter2111: Hey, Just got the info of the crew: The Captain: Korogodin Ivan Ivanovich The Co-Pilots: Onishchenko Vladimir Vladimirovich Khodnevich Andrey Nikolaev
114 DeC: That's what i thought as well, from tv footage with the minimal wreckage and all the burned ground / material and ashes. I believe that if that was t
115 David L: I wouldn't read too much into the early reports. Russian "spokesmen" seem a bit quick to issue so called "facts" after recent accidents, such as the
116 Aeroflot777: Came home, read the news and WHAM! Very sad to hear this. RIP to all victims. Not much more that I can say really. I've seen that bird take off from M
117 XXXX10: Totally agree How safe would you be on a 757 in any of these circumstances
118 DavestanKSAN: Holy God. Terrible news. Prayers to the victims and their families . May they RIP. I wish these things would never happen...... Dave[Edited 2006-
119 Sovietjet: Also, alot of Soviet airliners crash in Africa and the Middle East where maintenance is at an all-time low and the airports have camels walking around
120 ATA1011Tristar: Agreed. I was merely bringing to light some information in a time when not much was known and people were trying to find out what happened. I went on
122 IRelayer: Crash statistics for Boeing 727: http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/b727.htm Crew+passengers killed/total passengers 16 August 1965; United Airline
123 Kmh1956: May they all rest in peace. I must comment however, on this post: I'd have thought that a comment such as this would not have shown up so early, not t
124 Tu204: Looking at the passenger lists, it looks like 80% of the passengers were families...alot of them 3+ people. 136. Solichin Alexander 137. Solichin Alex
125 MCOflyer: Very sad to hear. God bless them and the crew. MCOflyer
126 AutoThrust: My preys with the families of the victims of this horrible crash. The Tu-154 are, well maintained as safe as a other plane in the World.
127 Sunbird: I translated this from the site Mr.X mentioned eairler http://www.pulkovo.ru/ OFFICIAL APPLICATION FGUAP "PULKOVO" THE INFORMATION ON FLIGHT ANAPA - s
128 Spacecadet: It's not mean. I didn't say you were stupid. I just said you were young; probably too young to remember past crashes in this area and the things that
129 David L: I was trying to avoid being that specific but it's true. My apologies, I should have said "in fairness to ATA1011Tristar. Sorry about that. Precisely
130 LPLAspotter: Correct: More info (although its hard to get any info on this accident) at http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...te=09131997®=---&airline=Luftwaffe
131 Starlionblue: The 747 is "responsible" for more deaths than that. Care to call it unsafe? As has been said, the operator and regulatory environment have a far grea
132 BillReid: Botth of you have very bad timing. Let it lie for now.
134 Aleksandar: There is another one: 1988, YU-AKA JAT plane wet-leased to Talia Airlines crashed in Northern Cyprus.
135 F9Animal: Was this the same black sea resort that another plane crashed from awhile back with a bunch of kids onboard?
136 Levg79: It's interesting how Pulkovo website is showing a list of all of the passengers as well as their passport numbers and ticket numbers. Does anyone else
137 Hmmmm...: I can't believe the adminstrators let this idiot comment stay on the board.
138 Mbg: I think they just showed an amateur video footage of the airplane actually coming down and hitting the ground on WHDH News (Boston NBC affiliate, Ch 7
139 Airhead711: I was just watching a show on the science channel this morning about lightning. They were saying that most lightning bolts are negative charged so the
140 Khobar: FWIW, I came across a .pdf that has some interesting notes comparing the TU-154 to 727. One paragraph that stands out: "The level of flight safety of
141 PanHAM: " target=_blank>http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...waffe not exactly to the topic but when the general heading of this thread is the safety of the
142 Sudden: This was also told in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet. For me it makes it even more tragic then it already is when children are victims of these ho
143 Cumulus: So do a lot of other aircraft, more so than you know. Quote from BBC re Russian built aircraft:- "Since its service entry, some 28 Tu-154s have been
144 BA787: That pisses all over age theories. May all the dead rest in peace. That nsort of reply makes me respect you . WElcome to my RU Tom
145 Skippy777: Also a Dutch Person died as I can read it correct Anna Bakker Dutch Goverment is still not confirming her dead. Still not sure that she is from hollan
146 Brenintw: The BBC is reporting as of 09:15 GMT that the flight data recorders have been recovered. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5276784.stm
147 Alessandro: Supposed to be a video clip of the crash at www.expressen.se I cant watch it myself due to setting on this lended computer.
148 David L: Thanks for the extra information. It was tragic but clearly no fault of the aircraft. Without the first remark the second one wouldn't have been nece
149 PipoA380: You don't see much, just a sudden smoke mass. Wonder it that's a real video of the actual crash.
150 Tu204: Just now on the news they showed it but I only saw the last part (was taking a leak) and saw only the fireball. The surrounding forest does look like
151 Sushka: Wow very sad. I flew KBP-JFK on DL 89 that morning and family back home was worried when they saw the headlines "Plane crash in Ukraine". I didn't hea
152 Khobar: There's a pic of the tail section at 00:22/00:55 and again at 00:50/00:55. That doesn't look like a T-tail. There are also some shots of the tail int
153 David L: That's what I thought initially but it may be an optical illusion. We'd need to see it from another angle.
154 FlySSC: Very true. The lack of serious maintenance and poor pilot training are more to blame in all those crashes in the former Soviet Union, rather than the
155 TrojanAE: To add to the speculation, here is an excerpt I have translated from Lithuanian news sources: "A flight safety official, close to the investigation co
156 Dogfighter2111: Hey, About that video on expressen.se, it is not this incident because I saw pictures taken from on a helicopter on BBC news and the tail section was
157 Khobar: I think the expressen.se video is, in part, showing footage of another Pulkovo Airlines crash, an IL-86: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2159709.stm
158 David L: Sounds like this one: ... which is one of the very few I thought might be aircraft-related. However... Stalling a T-tail is a Very Bad Idea. Preventi
159 Starlionblue: Of course. The specific phenomenon you are referring to is called a deep stall. It's when the angle of attack is such that the wing masks the elevato
160 David L: And has downed a few T-tail prototypes, e.g. Trident, BAC 1-11.
161 Tu204: I know Mr. Agapov, the test pilot of the Tu-154M very well and he accidently stalled it when they were "looking" for the stall speed - he found it a l
163 Tu204: My thoughts exactly. He said that after that time he always paid full attention at any briefing...even if he has already flown 1000 hours on the type
164 RIXrat: FYI, Expressen has pulled the alleged crash video. No trace of it anymore on their web site, or on their files. So, it apparently was a fake of this l
165 Moek2000: May all rest in peace... Btw, there seems to be a pattern of Tupelov crashes recently within last couple of years... I've never been to Russia, but ar
166 Tu204: Yes they are. In Russia atleast, I cannot vouch for the FSU countries and Africa.
167 Koosi: Sad... Btw, I don`t think Pulkovo has bad maintenance. It`s a large airline flying to many european destinations.
168 David L: Once again, you have to look at the causes. How is maintenance going to protect an aircraft from a bomb, a missile or a mountain?
169 FVTu134: This comment seems in line with what the Russian news channels have been reporting. According to comments here the cause of the accident is loss of c
170 Starlionblue: Especially since Russia uses meters.
171 Bennett123: Was'nt there a similar loss with an MD80 last year in Venezuela(?)
173 David L: Hmm... both T-tails but the MD-80 had a double flame-out. Only time will tell if there's any similarity.
174 Bennett123: I seem to recall that there was some discussion of the flight characteristics of the MD80 at extreme altitudes.
175 David L: I only recall some talk about the risk of flame-out but you might be right.
176 777jaah: Last thing I heard on that crash is that both engines were perfectly fine at the moment of the crash, so dual flame out was ruled out.
177 David L: In addition to the link Bennett123 provided, there are these: http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/hk-4374x/photo.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes
178 LPLAspotter: I flew an IL-62 of Aeroflot from Lisbon to Frankfurt and had a great flight. It was during the late 70s and given the chance again I would love to fly
179 David L: I don't think that's the case - not from the causes listed above, anyway.
180 LPLAspotter: You're right I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out my error. LPLAspotter
181 David L: It's what I live for. I compensate for my lack of ability to contribute anything positive by ripping other people's mistakes apart.
183 Tu204: One little note: I can tell you with 100% assurance that the aircraft DID NOT REFUEL in Anapa; in LED it took on enough fuel to complete the round tri
184 YYZYYT: huh? I had always understood that lighning was a build-up of negative energy (in cloud or on ground) that jumped to a positive charged cloud.... Toda
186 Tu204: I do not want to mislead anyone. The only fact that I stated is that it did not refuel. I do not know how close it was to it's MTOW.
187 David L: I suppose there's a possibility that they had a much larger pax/cargo load on the way back that compensated for the used fuel but I've no idea how li
188 BuyantUkhaa: Apparentlz no news for a while, at least not on a.net. From the above remarks it seemed that it entered the so-called "coffin corner", a high-speed st
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