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DL Issues New RJ RFP...could Replace OH/RP/S5  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

Delta has issued an RFP to potentially replace flying currently done by Comair, Chautauqua, Shuttle America and Freedom (Mesa).

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060822/104142.html

This had been rumored for a while. It's likely this RFP will be used to put pressure on the regionals that DL is not happy with. Notably, Comair and its labor problems and Mesa and its reliability problems. There's also been rumor that DL hasn't been thrilled with S5's E170's in terms of fuel burn and cost.

Let the RJ games begin.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Q300s/Q400s coming to replace the CRJs?  scratchchin 

User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5834 times:

The only one that will be replaced is Freedom. DL is extremely happy with the E70's and also the ERJ's. OH tho may get significantly reduced.


Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5824 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 2):
The only one that will be replaced is Freedom. DL is extremely happy with the E70's and also the ERJ's. OH tho may get significantly reduced.

You may be right, but none of the regionals in this press release are assured of anything. If DL was so happy with the ERJ/E70, your contract would alread have been affirmed through the BK courts. DL has not done so for a reason. The RP/S5 contracts were signed at a different time when DL wasn't in BK and would accept higher costs. If your costs are too high, you can be replaced.

If you look at the press release, DL specifically targets the E70s by mentioning 43 70-seat RJ's up for rebid (27 CRJ700's from Comair and 16 E70's from S5).


User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5789 times:

This doesn't mean that Delta is unhappy with us. We have known as a company that this was coming since the day Delta Air Lines filed for bankruptcy. Delta has always been pleased with the Embraer 170 (despite its early teething problems) and the customer reaction to the aircraft has been incredibly positive, and is something Delta shouldn't overlook.

If anything, this is a big opportunity for us to grow as a Delta Connection carrier. We offer a very competitive cost structure against other regional airlines, and I have total faith and confidence in our management team to prove to Delta Air Lines that we are a valuable asset to their DCI program.

-Tony



Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5789 times:

Completing the regional flying restructuring is one of the last major things DL needs to do. They will cut their regional jet flying costs and will get the quality that several of their carriers do not currently provide.

And Comair's flight attendants will quickly find that they will be out of work if they don't get with the program.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5769 times:
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The RFP also include 50 x 76-seat aircraft with first class cabins... let the race begin between the E175 and the CRJ900. I'm sure both aircraft manufacturers are gearing up for such a lucrative order.


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5692 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
Completing the regional flying restructuring is one of the last major things DL needs to do. They will cut their regional jet flying costs and will get the quality that several of their carriers do not currently provide.

And Comair's flight attendants will quickly find that they will be out of work if they don't get with the program.

You also in the end will get what you pay for - and or do not want to pay for! Mesa being one example of wanting the cheapest.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5656 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
The RFP also include 50 x 76-seat aircraft with first class cabins... let the race begin between the E175 and the CRJ900. I'm sure both aircraft manufacturers are gearing up for such a lucrative order.

There are already several CR9s that are entering service with Skywest in the fall for Delta Connection.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5607 times:

Right now I believe there are 2 CR9's in service with DL, more of a CR705 than a true CR9. But as far as getting the E175's on for DL, RAH would be the ones to turn to, as S5 is the only current operator of the E-jet family for DL. The ERJ's are more comfortable than the CRJ, so I would hope that they reduce the CRJ flying.



Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5546 times:

Also heard through the rumor mill that XJT may be picking up some DLX flying.....

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 10):
Also heard through the rumor mill that XJT may be picking up some DLX flying.....

Is this expressJet? (Sorry just don't know). If so, I wouldn't mind, the one thing I'll say about expressJet is their professional and I prefer the ERJ to the CRJ any day of the week.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineNWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5507 times:

yes XJT is expressJet.....yes XJT has some mighty fine service

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5449 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
Delta has issued an RFP to potentially replace flying currently done by Comair, Chautauqua, Shuttle America and Freedom (Mesa).

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060822/104142.html

This had been rumored for a while. It's likely this RFP will be used to put pressure on the regionals that DL is not happy with. Notably, Comair and its labor problems and Mesa and its reliability problems. There's also been rumor that DL hasn't been thrilled with S5's E170's in terms of fuel burn and cost.

Let the RJ games begin.

Ummmm...doesn't Delta Air Lines still own Comair?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5439 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):
Ummmm...doesn't Delta Air Lines still own Comair?

Yes they do. Though I thought they wanted to unload them.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 days ago) and read 5439 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):
...doesn't Delta Air Lines still own Comair?

Yes, but both Grinstein and Whitehurst have been quoted as saying it doesn't make sense to own your regionals. CMR will be sold either whole or in parts, but Delta will get rid of them.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 13):
Ummmm...doesn't Delta Air Lines still own Comair?

DL does own Comair, but they can still make Comair compete for regional flying. If Comair fails to compete, DL can liquidate Comair even in whole or piece by piece. Not a particularly great return on investment (considering what DL paid for Comair), but that's business.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
DL does own Comair, but they can still make Comair compete for regional flying. If Comair fails to compete, DL can liquidate Comair even in whole or piece by piece. Not a particularly great return on investment (considering what DL paid for Comair), but that's business.

Did they not take a big loss in getting rid of ASA.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

This may also give DL the opportunity to reject a number of leases for the Comair CRJ fleet. If DL dumps Shuttle, there's nobody else to provide E170 flying. They can play CHQ vs COEX to get costs lowered on the ERJ fleet. I'm sure somebody at Mesaba just saw the light go on at the end of the tunnel. Mesaba invested heavily to get the CRJ added to their ticket, only to have NWA pull the rug out on 'em. Mesaba's current costs are likely below Comair's current. If Mesaba is successful in getting any further cost reductions from employees, they could be a thorn in Comair's side.

User currently offlineAh414211 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 9):
Right now I believe there are 2 CR9's in service with DL, more of a CR705 than a true CR9. But as far as getting the E175's on for DL, RAH would be the ones to turn to, as S5 is the only current operator of the E-jet family for DL. The ERJ's are more comfortable than the CRJ, so I would hope that they reduce the CRJ flying.



Sean

The CR9s are not in service yet--they will start service in 2-3 weeks


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5312 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ah414211 (Reply 19):
The CR9s are not in service yet--they will start service in 2-3 weeks

SkyWest "only" has 17 of them on order, so what are chances that there will be 33 more ordered, to make the 50 aircraft the article mentions?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 3):

You may be right, but none of the regionals in this press release are assured of anything. If DL was so happy with the ERJ/E70, your contract would alread have been affirmed through the BK courts. DL has not done so for a reason. The RP/S5 contracts were signed at a different time when DL wasn't in BK and would accept higher costs. If your costs are too high, you can be replaced.

This is a valid point. Operating costs for the E70 have been far higher than anticipated. It is a more expensive airplane to operate than promised when the contract was signed. CRJ 705 offers more seats, similar performance and superior economics. The E 170 is a great plane, but there is a price to pay for all that comfort. Delta would love to keep them, but the economics need to get better, and part of that may come out of Republic's hide.


User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

I think the day of the airlines looking for the lowest bid are just about over. With air travel being up, load factors very high - a poor performing express carrier can in fact hurt your bottom line and turn passengers away. I think Mesa is going to have to clean up their act in a big way. There are many carriers looking for work, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, Mesaba - all of which provide a good product and can start service rather quickly. I'd be very nervous if I was Mesa.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 15):
Yes, but both Grinstein and Whitehurst have been quoted as saying it doesn't make sense to own your regionals. CMR will be sold either whole or in parts, but Delta will get rid of them.

Should they say this, I disagree. AMR owns American Eagle, and I think that to be successful.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 23):
Should they say this, I disagree. AMR owns American Eagle, and I think that to be successful.

You make think so, but you'd probably be wrong. Scope clause limits what AA can do today. You can bet they'd love to shop their RJ flying around.


25 Luv2fly : I have to second this statement.
26 Wjcandee : What a refreshing attitude! Congratulations! Compare this guy's attitude to the thread on the NW f/a's. Old-style thinking versus today's thinking.
27 FlyPNS1 : I hope you are right. The bottomline is that there are too many 50 seat RJ operators looking for work and not enough demand for 50 seaters. Someone i
28 Lowrider : Probably a young, inexperienced one at that, who has not spent the past few years with constant demands for pay cuts, threats of furloughs, bankruptc
29 FCYTravis : Freedom is not just at MCO anymore. They've spread throughout the system, including a substantial ATL operation.
30 KSUpilot : Would they order more CRJ900s when there could be a CRJ900X. Would Sky West be interested in a 100 seat RJ?
31 N839mh : We would love to see S5 leave DFW...ever since they have operated the LGA-DFW-LGA, service has been deplorable at best. They have bratty little pilots
32 AvConsultant : They have 60+ aircraft being removed from CO. They're attempting a European partnership, but if there's an opening within DL they will definitely bid
33 CRJ900 : That would be wonderful, but who would they fly them for? 100 seats is "mainline territory", isn't it?
34 DAL767400ER : It is, and the new pilots contract call for any 100-seaters to be operated by mainline pilots, hence Skywest couldn't operate those for DL. Besides,
35 PeachAir : Although you would surmise by looking at the word "RFP" that DL is looking for the low bidder, they do not have to look for the low bidder. Just as w
36 SLCUT2777 : I believe it is 75-76 for both DL and UA if I recall correctly.
37 DAL767400ER : Dl definitely is 76 (used to be 70 for years). Not sure about UA, but normally it should be in the same range.
38 Lowecur : I had no idea that DL has to pay for the 170 fuel burn and cost. And here I thought DL pays a block cost that is predetermined by contract. Silly me.
39 Okie73 : In the case of AA, I believe American Eagle does have scope assuring them the bulk of regional flying. 76 seats at DL. And a limit of 200 airplanes s
40 Jetlanta : Delta pays for fuel as well, hence the issue.
41 FlyPNS1 : DL does pay a contractual block cost, however fuel is not part of the block cost. DL pays for fuel separately and has not been thrilled with the E170
42 Lowecur : So does US Air, so what? DL says they want to get their costs in line with other carriers. You think that means that US Air might be paying less for
43 Lowecur : The E-jets are the end-all-be-all plane for regionals. Adjustments will be made for the block hour rates to coinside with US Airs rates. If DL is sti
44 TOLtommy : Not exactly. The pilot and mechanic agreements were contingent on the FA's also agree to a new contract. There were sunset provisions in the new agre
45 Jetlanta : My man, you are out of touch with reality here. This is a great airplane, but under no circumstances will it ever be more "cost-effective" than a com
46 MCOflyer : Why would ZW bid? Does ZW have enough planes? MCOflyer
47 Lowecur : You lost me there pally. You see the 170 has 144 firm orders and 111 options to date. The propaganda on the Embraer website says: "The cost-effective
48 FlyPNS1 : Unfortunately, fuel is now the largest cost item for most airlines. So like it or not, fuel burn is important. And what happens if fuel spikes even h
49 Lowecur : NWA is the next big order. Lets see where it goes. Let me see the 705/900 order book. If the 170/175 were such a big loser, this should be reflected i
50 CRJ900 : The E170/E175 have a different engine than the E190/E195 - so there may be some extra costs in having more parts for two engine types...? The CRJ700/
51 Lowecur : What percentage of those are with airlines that have CRJ 50 seaters? Talk about the advantage of commonality.
52 Post contains images Lowecur : Well the Embraer Website makes specific comparisons to the 700/900. Does the Bombardier Website claim a 30% savings over the 170/175? I just checked,
53 WorldTraveler : DL is obligated to the creditors to ensure that its costs for all items are the best it can get. There is alot of valuation that can be placed on serv
54 Jetlanta : Propaganda it is. Hey, I love the planes. Don't get me wrong. BUT, the economics of the 70 seater are not compelling. Most of those aircraft were ord
55 S5FA170 : Thank you for the compliment. I do everything I can when I go to work in the morning to ensure that I have given my best to my passengers, fellow cre
56 Lowecur : Have the majority of those a/c ever had 140 firm orders and 110 options in their first 3 years? I still feel the 170 will still see over 500 produced
57 Jetlanta : Look at it this way. The E70 has been in revenue service for well over a year. It doesn't yet have a 1/3 of the firm orders that the 787 has. And it
58 KingAir200 : Yeah, but I think XJ has an exclusivity clause in their contract with NW.
59 Miller22 : The 30% Mx benefits you're seeing on the E170 is simply due to the first CRJ-700's going into their first C and even D checks. Its inevitible that the
60 Drewwright : At least in the past couple of months S5 has seen a measurable improvement in fuel consumption as dispatchers file flights (at least westbound) for lo
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