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UA Restricts Mileage Plus Even Further  
User currently offline764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 624 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8776 times:

So far the collest thing about Mileage Plus has been the fact that you could earn miles and make use of benefits no matter what kind of ticket you bought. That is now being changed. Several fares between the UK and the USA now have consiitons like this one:

MILEAGE PLUS
a) Mileage Plus credits may NOT be accrued on V class net fares.
b) Mileage Plus credits may be accrued on Q class net fares.
c) Mileage Plus benefits may NOT be applied on V or Q class net fares.

Agreed, this is for a net fare, but so far all nets were fully eligible for Mileage Plus. Not only will they no longer earn you miles, YOU WON'T EVEN GET ECONOMY PLUS as a Premier any more when you book such a fare. This is expected to be applied to all "cheaper" fares in the near future, so probably to everything lower than H class on the international market.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8764 times:

Collest? Oh, coolest. Seems like United is following the pack now instead of leading. No more 100K frequent flyers who earned that status on largely on super cheap tickets. Makes sense to me.

User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8749 times:

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
Agreed, this is for a net fare, but so far all nets were fully eligible for Mileage Plus. Not only will they no longer earn you miles, YOU WON'T EVEN GET ECONOMY PLUS as a Premier any more when you book such a fare. This is expected to be applied to all "cheaper" fares in the near future, so probably to everything lower than H class on the international market.

Are you sure about the Economy Plus part? I heard from friends of mine in wholesale that this was coming but that it would apply more to upgrades and the like. My understanding was that the whole seating issue came down to MP status or fare bucket (Y/B/M) to apply and that Apollo didn't look at the actual ticket.


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8666 times:

Where do you see this ?

I dont see it.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,3122,00.html

Other Economy fares (E,M,U,H,Q,V,W,S,T,K,L) 100%
100%

United's going to have to be very careful with this one otherwise they will lose all remaining very little goodwill they have in the UK.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 3):
United's going to have to be very careful with this one otherwise they will lose all remaining very little goodwill they have in the UK.

I could not agree more. All it will take is for AA and/or BA not to go along with this and soon there will be frequent flyers leaving UA for AA and BA. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.


User currently offlineCHIFLYGUY From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

Let's not forget, a lot of frequent flyers earned their status by flying high fare basis business trips, but still make dirt cheap personal trips. Make their personal travel too difficult, and you could lose the business fares as well.

UA does have a problem in that they have far too many elite status flyers. That's one reason I switched to AA some years back. A lot of those west coast runs from Chicago are full of regular "commuters" who are all buying 21-day advance purchase with a weekend stay, and are 1K to boot. I kid you not, some of those ORD-SFO flights go out with virtually 100% premeirs and upwards of 75 1K's on them.


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 5):
Let's not forget, a lot of frequent flyers earned their status by flying high fare basis business trips, but still make dirt cheap personal trips. Make their personal travel too difficult, and you could lose the business fares as well.

UA does have a problem in that they have far too many elite status flyers. That's one reason I switched to AA some years back. A lot of those west coast runs from Chicago are full of regular "commuters" who are all buying 21-day advance purchase with a weekend stay, and are 1K to boot. I kid you not, some of those ORD-SFO flights go out with virtually 100% premeirs and upwards of 75 1K's on them.

Damn! I have been a premier member for ten years, and ironically I think this is going to be the first year I don't make premier status. I often book a cheap, off-peak Europe flight in November to get my premier status - I guess that might not work anymore.

Interestingly, I flew from DCA-DEN last week on the highest leisure fare I've ever paid (and I have flown to Denver an average of four times per year in the past 15 years); and for the first time ever, I was unable to get economy plus. Having a more difficult time securing economy plus seats with premier status is an ominous sign. In addition, with these new changes, it is unlikely that I'll be able to get premier status next year as most of my travel is pleasure. Clearly, without premier status or the likelihood that I can attain it going forward (coupled with the difficulty in securing economy plus seats), my loyalty to pay an extra $100 or $150 per roundtrip to fly UA just flew out the window.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

I purchased a T class "deep discount fare" from OMA to LAX several months ago for september. I paid 523.00 for the trip. If you're telling me that a fare of 523.00 in T class will not be elegible for FF mile accural or Economy Plus that is BS!!! United is going way overboard now. If this goes through they'll loose a customer that spends several thousand dollars per year with them.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8295 times:

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 5):
Let's not forget, a lot of frequent flyers earned their status by flying high fare basis business trips, but still make dirt cheap personal trips. Make their personal travel too difficult, and you could lose the business fares as well.

I am one of these...


My Core UA route is LHR-JFK..now this is down the spout..

if UA isnt offering cheap seats when I want to travel personal... then I wont fly UA.

But if I only get 1 mile when I fly be it VS, BA or UA... then why stay with UA.. when they dont fly to where I travel on business and when I travel for fun.. they dont give miles.

I feel a new alliance for 2007 is coming on.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8242 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 1):
No more 100K frequent flyers who earned that status on largely on super cheap tickets. Makes sense to me.

 checkmark  I hope the days of UA treating passengers who spend $2000 to make 1K better than they treat passengers who spend $10,000 for a single F ticket are coming to a close.


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8230 times:

I think i'll stick with NW, AA or US after hearing this. DL's skymiles is awful, and AS's is pretty good.

User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8187 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
I hope the days of UA treating passengers who spend $2000 to make 1K better than they treat passengers who spend $10,000 for a single F ticket are coming to a close.

First of all, that's a ridiculous example. No one can make 1K by spending $2,000, and anyone that spends $10,000 on a single F ticket gets treated like a King/Queen on any and every airline.

Regardless, I spend between $2,000 and $3,000 per year on UA to attain premier status, and the tickets I buy on UA are rarely the cheapest for the dates I travel. I pay a premium on leisure tickets to retain premier status so that I can 1) Board early, and 2) Get an economy plus aisle seat. That is basically all I get for premier (plus a few bonus miles, but I haven't been able to use 500 mile upgrades for years). So, essentially, I'm paying probably about $500 extra per year on UA tickets for economy plus.

UA may be able to afford to lose a portion or most of that $2,000-$3,000 per year right now since RASMs are up double digits and load factors are in the mid-80%. But, while the profits and revenues are up for the first time in 5 years, the fact is the economy is showing signs of slowing and with any number of external events that may/will take place (oil prices, potential terrorism, increased security), this scenartio is unlikely to last. The question is, will the legacy carriers such as UA have done enough to weather the next downturn when it comes? And, when is it coming?


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8179 times:

In a way this is even worse than 50% EQM on cheap fares, which I was expecting.
A deprivation of benefits on cheap fares, and NO miles at all - ouch.
-Mr. X, a Continental Silver Elite counting his limited blessings



What now?
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8089 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 7):
I purchased a T class "deep discount fare" from OMA to LAX several months ago for september. I paid 523.00 for the trip. If you're telling me that a fare of 523.00 in T class will not be elegible for FF mile accural or Economy Plus that is BS!!! United is going way overboard now. If this goes through they'll loose a customer that spends several thousand dollars per year with them.

Joeljack,
relax...it appears this is on "net/bulk"tickets only which you rarely see on any us domestic flt that is not connecting to a intl segment....anyone correct me if im wrong but doesnt AA or BA have some type of restrictions as well into the uk???/could be wrong but thought i read some where where they are doing it as well



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8052 times:

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 13):
anyone correct me if im wrong but doesnt AA or BA have some type of restrictions as well into the uk???/could be wrong but thought i read some where where they are doing it as well

Both BA and AA have restrictions on accrual/upgrades available dependant on class of service. The restrictions are also by market (what applies to Central America doesn't necessarily apply to Asia).

One of the complaints that the OP was making was that an E+ seat assignment was not obtainable using these tickets even if the passenger was statused. I know that BA and AA don't have any such restriction. I also definately doubt that UA has also.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8014 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
I hope the days of UA treating passengers who spend $2000 to make 1K better than they treat passengers who spend $10,000 for a single F ticket are coming to a close.

That is what United Global Services was created for, though it's now slowly morphing into just another Mileage Plus tier.  

Back to the topic - the term "net fares" is what confuses me. Do they mean fares bought from internet travel sites like Travelocity/Orbitz?

Or do they also mean bought direct from united.com?

Not to mention Economy Plus is extended to United and Star Alliance elites regardless of fare basis. Is this changing now?

For non-elites, it has always been restricted to Y/B/M/E/U fares, so there is nothing new there in not allowing them in on V or Q fares.

[Edited 2006-08-23 18:56:57]

User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7981 times:

Actually, AA has a similar restriction with their fares. O class fares to Asia, India, Latin America and Europe earn no credit, and Q class transatlantic earn no credit.  Sad http://www.aa.com/apps/AAdvantage/Vi...scriptor=AAdvantagePartnersContent

User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7957 times:

AA's restrictions aren't that bad. You still earn 100% of the miles flown on even the deep discount fares. However one only earns half the elite miles on such a trip.

BA's restrictions are pretty bad, in fact I avoided all Y travel on BA for that reason. BA only gives 25% of miles flown on restricted economy tickets, although AAdvantage members still get elite miles for these flights. Executive Club members don't earn any Tier Points off of restricted economy tickets.


User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7918 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Back to the topic - the term "net fares" is what confuses me. Do they mean fares bought from internet travel sites like Travelocity/Orbitz?

Or do they also mean bought direct from united.com?

Net fares.. or contract fares.. are offered to wholesalers - either tour companies or consolidators - at a set price (net) to be marked up and added to a final package. These nets tend to remain the same for the duration of a season regardless of fluctuations in regular published fares.

Going back a few years (I'm thankfully out of wholesale now) UA's europe contracts to wholesalers were net. They were offered at two static fare levels - one at V and the other at Q. They were then sold by zone.

Example.. The V net fare from the east coast (zone 1) during low season was (and I'm making up a number here) $450 to the wholesaler if it was booked in V. The wholesaler would turn around and add somewhere in the ballpark of $35 to it and resell it to travel agencies who would then market them to the public. The taxes were added, the ticket was issued, and it made it possible to sell what would have been a $800 fare if purchased directly from the carrier at somewhere in the ballpark of $600.

These aren't the fares you would purchase directly from UA.. you'd have to purchase them through a third party.

Unless you have someone who is purchasing their ticket from wholesalers only instead of from the carrier, it's not likely that you'll run into many of these.

It's the whole "you get what you pay for". If you purchase your ticket from the carrier at the $800 fare then all is fine and dandy. If you want to purchase your ticket for $400 less, you don't get the mileage or the upgrades.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

I response to above, I buy all my ticket's through United's Webpage. I purchase the cheapest available, Often end up in T or S but also V and Q are common too. Can I assume that the V class bought directly through UAL is different then a V class bought through a third party? How can they tell the difference?

As long as I can continue to earn full EQM's through united.com fares then I'm fine with any new rules.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9652 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

If this is true, United will likely lose the loyalty of this Premier Executive. I fly some expensive flights like full fare business class, but usually when I am paying, I'll fly the cheapest UA fare out there. However if UA treats me like dirt when I do this, then I'll stop paying a premium to fly UA and might just take my loyalty elsewhere. AA has a nice fast track way to get elite status.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7798 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 19):
I response to above, I buy all my ticket's through United's Webpage. I purchase the cheapest available, Often end up in T or S but also V and Q are common too. Can I assume that the V class bought directly through UAL is different then a V class bought through a third party? How can they tell the difference?

As long as I can continue to earn full EQM's through united.com fares then I'm fine with any new rules.

The OP was referring to UK/US flights. Domestic flights are handled totally differently. UA's back-of-the-bus service tends to be in Y/B (full fare/one way reduced) M/H (Advance Purchase Excursion) and W/Q/V which show up from time to time as published fares - generally deeply discounted sale fares. The Q/V fares I was referring to are available on a wholesale basis year round even when the carrier themselves are not selling to the public a fare in that bucket.

The only way they can really tell is from what fare is actually shown on your ticket. That is taken into account when mileage credit is given.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31012 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7749 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 18):
Net fares.. or contract fares.. are offered to wholesalers - either tour companies or consolidators - at a set price (net) to be marked up and added to a final package. These nets tend to remain the same for the duration of a season regardless of fluctuations in regular published fares...These aren't the fares you would purchase directly from UA.. you'd have to purchase them through a third party.

Got it. So items purchased from united.com and even internet travel sites like Orbitz and Travelocity will still receive full credit.

It is fares purchased from consolidators as part of packages that will no longer earn credit (though I imagine United Vacations will be exempt from this).

I feel better now.  Smile


User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7745 times:

Unless it's changed, UAV is booked in "S"  Wink

User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7628 times:

If they do restrict Mileage Plus further, I'll probably switch to either an AC or US account for my Star travel. I really don't see what the problem is with too many Premier flyers. I would rather have too many Premier flyers that are loyal to UA than none at all. If it is a revenue problem, then just cut the amount of fare sales. UA has so many fare sales going on all the time. It's not like a Premier flyer increases costs by much. However, they do increase revenue since they have a certian degree of loaylty to UA. An airline's FF program is sometimes their most valuable asset. If UA starts making too many cuts to Mileage Plus they might end up in court again.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 10):
DL's skymiles is awful

Ever since DL got rid of 50% MQMs on L/U/T fares, SkyMiles aligns with most other SkyTeam members. The only problem is getting 50% miles on CO deeply discounted fares. The thing that makes SkyMiles so good is the American Express card. They always have a double or triple points thing going on for all purchases.



/// U N I T E D
25 M180up : Correct in a part, wrong in another, some fares that are sold at least through Orbitz might be net fares, IIRC they let you know the restrictions whe
26 BOAC911 : Personally I prefer to have a higher standard of service than to accumulate miles. Everyone pays for miles in some hidden form (i.e if you really want
27 777fan : Get a Chase United Mileage Plus Visa card...$1 always equals at least 1 mile. 777fan
28 FLY2LIM : Just flew to LIM on a discount fare from aa.com. Got full miles. Charged the tickets on my Citibank AAdvantage Mastercard. Got one mile per dollar sp
29 Post contains images Stitch : Well I only buy from united.com (when it let's me ), so I'm safe.
30 Yellowstone : Could someone do an a.net newbie a favor and put up a list of which class each letter represents? I know F, C, and Y, but that's about it. My family u
31 Dj1986 : That is common with carriers in Europe get used to it. You get what you pay for! Since the Change with LH Miles and More I just tell my travel agent w
32 M180up : Normally F = is for First class, C= Business, Y= Coach, those are for the full fares, then the other classes are discounted fares depending on the ai
33 Post contains links Zvezda : You might want to get out to see the world more. For example, see the Mileage Run forum at http://www.flyertalk.com/ where some people have made 1K f
34 AF454GRU : AF/KL's Flying members earn miles in all booking classes. The only thing is: AF's L class on long-haul and N on the European network give you 25% of t
35 Brick : In 2004, I made Premier Exec by spending $10,132.22 on 56 segments for a total of 52192 earned miles. In 2005 I fell short, but paid a $100 fee toward
36 Stitch : For United Airlines: A – Discounted First Class fare. Also used as the booking code for “M-UP” and “Q-UP” Economy fares [that book into Fir
37 StarGoldLHR : Maybe they should treat the $10k F Class passengers better than they do now (i.e. more akin to BA / VS etc). Ive flown UA F - Class JFK - LHR nothing
38 StarGoldLHR : I Just bought an £440 / $750 LHR-LAX-SFO-LHR ticket with a W class rating in November. If I dont earn miles... this is my last UA flight. Next year I
39 Stitch : UA does have an International First Class Lounge at LHR (in addition to the RCC, which I admit is lackluster) and you can also use SQ's and SK/AC's (
40 Nickofatlanta : Does the original poster please have a link to these changes? I have seen a number of fares on the UA UK web-site that state that they do not earn mil
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