TOLtommy From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 3246 posts, RR: 4 Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7229 times:
Having been through corporate mergers in the past, I was curious to see how the US/HP merger was going. I usually fly out of DTW, and the US gates are still seperated from the gates used by HP. This week I flew out of CLE, and got to see first hand. Aside from the two seperate kiosks and check-in positions, anything HP related is gone. My PHL flight was delayed due to flow control, so I had time to sit and observe the staff working the two side by side gates.
I was disappointed to see no interaction at all between the former HP employees who were working the PHX flight, and the US employees working the PHL flight. The aircraft used for the PHX flight had been repainted in the US colors. All signage at the gate in CLE said US Airways. Yet the agents working the PHX flight referred to the flight as "America West".
I realize that there are pay issues, computer issues, et al. I fly US almost weekly now, and that was the first time I saw the two work groups side by side. I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.
I might be wrong, but I beleive that they still use America West flying titles and flight numbers because the two operating certificates havent merged as one, therefore they still are America West flights.
Also, if anything, the US agents should be clinging to the past... its HP who bought them.
FlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2267 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7166 times:
Quote: I might be wrong, but I beleive that they still use America West flying titles and flight numbers because the two operating certificates havent merged as one, therefore they still are America West flights.
I'm pretty sure you're right. It's not that America West and USAirways employees are being hostile towards each other, it's just that the employee groups have not officially merged, so America West workers still handle America West flights, and USAirways workers still handle USAirways flights. No interaction between the two is really all that necessary when working their respective flights, unless one happens to cancel or is severely delayed.
OURBOEING From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7134 times:
I felt the same way too. I have another post going right now and it has to do with my experiences with them losing my bags twice in three days.
Now, if you notice the sticker you see right next to the aircraft door (on the outside), "This flight is operated by Americawest airlines" even though the plane has been painted in the new US Airways colors.
My route back home was PHX-PHL-BWI and while checking in at PHX, I was only given a boarding pass for the PHX-PHL leg of the flight and when I asked for the second boarding pass, I was asked to check with the US Airways counter.
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8035 posts, RR: 25 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7074 times:
They still operate seperately, even though their positions all say USAir now. I had a friend coming in from PHX last month and his flight was delayed so I asked the US agent how long it might be, he said "Sorry, I don't know, we don't work that flight."
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2891 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6996 times:
The AA-TWA merger was similar to the US-HP merger, at least in the realm of the "name" used for the airline versus the company actually operating the flights.
If I recall correctly, all flights regardless of origin or destination were referred to as "American" flights, and they had a similar sticker ("operated by TWA") at the door when you boarded the plane.
I don't remember ever hearing gate staff refer to a flight operated by TWA as a TWA flight when making announcements, etc. I'm sure it happened as a mistake out of habit at the beginning of the merger, but when I transited STL a couple of months after the TWA flights entered AA's system as codeshares, it was all American except for the note on my itinerary and the sign at the door.
It seems to me that US Airways should be at (or past) the same point in their merger, so it does seem a bit odd that they're still calling flights "America West".
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 22 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6853 times:
They are two seperate airlines still. Its a 2 year process. If you listen to ATC, they are still "USair" and "Cactus". Flight numbers are still seperate. Right now its more of a codeshare if I am not mistaken.
Talking to my friend in San Francisco, he said it seems to be working easier there. At least working side by side. His personal opinion though was with SFO and US's seniority, the US employees had nothing to worry about. With less senior US station and senior HP stations, thats where the tension would be.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Pdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1044 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6782 times:
Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6): Until the certificates are merged, that's how it should be done.
And when will HP's operating certificate be assumed by US? Also, regarding the homogenization of both carriers' employee seniority lists, will this happen simultaneously or is it a completely different issue?
Finally, US appears to have SO many subsidiary carriers, one easily loses track of them
- Mid Atlantic [shut down now that the E70 fleet has been assumed by Republic?]
- Piedmont and Allegheney [doesn't one of these carriers operate the DHC-8-100/200/300 fleet?]
Plus all the myriad of outsourcing agreements with regionals, Republic, etc.
TropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6734 times:
The FAA requires the aircraft to be operated separately in all instances until the certificates are merged next April 2007. Also, the ticketing computer systems are different and union issues keep the work groups separate for now.
It is interesting how the general public's perception can be mislead by what they perceive they are seeing or not seeing.
Mah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6644 times:
Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 8): Finally, US appears to have SO many subsidiary carriers, one easily loses track of them
They do indeed have a lot of carriers, but most people see the US Airways sticker on the side of the plane and think automaticly that US is the flyer. US Express offers excellent regional connections also IMO. They're adding many new routes in their system. I think it's fascinating to watch the express system grow.
I have also seen that most US employees are really happy with the merger and feel that company morale is much higher than it has been in a while. So, I assume that most US agents won't have much difficulty in working with HP agents.
There are no doubt cultural issues between the work groups of the two companies. That's perfectly normal.
Republic and Northwest operated for some 10 years with separate labor agreements that segregated the staff.
The only reason the Western/Delta merger went so "well" was because Western employees lost their union representation shortly after the takeover and were inetgrated immediately into Delta seniority lists and payscales. And just how well things went is still a matter of contention.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
Junction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6398 times:
To avoid passenger confusion like this, it was my understanding the HP agents were supposed to make announcements like "US Airways flight 123 operated by America West". I guess it's hard for some of them to stick with that rather cumbersome wording.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2891 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6047 times:
Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 6): The flight is operated by America West Airlines, with America West employees on an America West plane. Until the certificates are merged, that's how it should be done.
That being the case, you'd hear a lot of "Comair flight"... "Republic flight"... "Mesa flight", because they're on separate certificates too. You don't hear that, though. I doubt seriously that an unfamiliar gate agent would want to say "Chautauqua".
The scenario that Junction explained ("Delta flight 4567 operated by Comair") is much more prevalent.
ABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 843 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5534 times:
To my surprise the friction between the two carriers has been a bit low, for now. I just got back from a trip to Florida and the US(east) agts in CLT were very nice to me. I went through 2 mergers at CO in early 80s and late 80s and things didnt go so well. Different cultures are known to clash. Give it time and people come around, im slowly getting used to saying USAirways and not America West.
Malexander131 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5457 times:
Are US and HP flight numbers re-aligned yet? I thought that one of the priorities for post-merger in 2006 was to have flights re-numbered as soon as the codeshare was in place so all flights could just be reffered to as US Airways without confusion....
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3879 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5234 times:
The flight number realignment is under way.
FWIW I've been on other airlines who did the same double-reference. One that comes to mind is a Mesaba flight I was on - Welcome on board NW flight xxxx, operated by Mesaba Airlines..." Besides, when the certificates are combined, the agents won't even refer to America West at all.
Heavy747 From Canada, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4237 times:
In Vancouver, when announcements are made they say both airlines.. ie.. America West Us Airways flight 156 is paging the following passeneger.. your bags are in the processes of being removed from the aircraft hehehe..
RandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
Quoting TOLtommy (Thread starter): I realize that there are pay issues, computer issues, et al. I fly US almost weekly now, and that was the first time I saw the two work groups side by side. I was disappointed to see the former HP'ers clinging to the past.
Oh my god....what a bunch of whining. The colors may be the same, however, legally, technically, and operationally - FOR NOW - they are still two seperate entities. Period.
Flyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3855 times:
We are still required by the company to announce which airline is operating the flight. In the case of US Express...I just announce the US flight number, since both are the same now...and it's operated by Mesa so really the America West name has nothing to do with it anymore.
As far as employees not talking, well I have heard good and bad. Most of what I heard is snobbiness on the part of US East employees not wanting anything to do with ex-HP employees. I have no idea why, but there is a bit of "we're better than you" attitude. I heard a story of one employee that told one of our HP employees, when we heard about our increased pay scale, that she didn't deserve to make the same amount of money as they did....that is just stupid! Hopefully things will get better soon...but honestly I believe it's the east employees that really need to adjust their attitude.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3879 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3283 times:
Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 14): That being the case, you'd hear a lot of "Comair flight"... "Republic flight"... "Mesa flight", because they're on separate certificates too. You don't hear that, though. I doubt seriously that an unfamiliar gate agent would want to say "Chautauqua".
I have heard it on other airlines. One that comes to mind - "Welcome on board Northwest flight xxxx operated by Mesaba Airlines, with service to xxxx"
FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
It's a federal requirement that aircraft operated by one company but marketed as a different brand must clearly identify the operating company. That's why you'll see "Operated by Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation" or "Operated by ExpressJet Airlines" printed on the side of the airplane near the door. Those requirements also stipulate that the operating airline be identified in verbal announcements.
All ex-AWA aircraft, even those still in full America West colors, carry similar verbiage on their Heritage Symbol stickers at the 1L door - "This aircraft operated by America West Airlines."
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.