Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6352 times:
Delta plans to implement four employee provided fuel saving (weight saving) initiatives this year including potentially removing the bulkhead b/w F/Y Class per the link attached.
I personally am not in love with the idea, perhaps they could find a lighter weight "hard" divider vs. going to curtains?
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6339 times:
This is not a class thing so much as a kid kicking the back of the seat thing, but I would imagine that since airlines like to seat kids in the first row of Y and kids like to kick seats, that removing this bulkhead will suck. Especially because you may get an envious mother who does nothing to stop her kid from kicking the "rich jerk".
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 2): Why are you unhappy sounds to me like Delta is doing the right thing and trying to lower fuel costs.
I guess I'm not thrilled because I enjoy the perks of being Medallion and seperation of class, yeah sounds like a snob.
My biggest complaint is exactly what Ikramerica said, kids often sit in bulkhead rows and will be less than thrilled to be constantly kicked in the back.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21243 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6264 times:
I've sat in Row 4 plenty of times on NW aircraft (by aircraft, I mean -9s and 32Xs) and have never been kicked. On NW at least, it's a little far for the kid to kick (except on the XJ Avros, but they're a different animal). To be honest, I don't mind it that much. After all, if you can't snag the upgrade, the bulkhead seats are a pretty nice alternative, especially on shorter segments where there's not a lot of service differentiation. And hey, compared to some other ways to save money, it's not so bad.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6231 times:
I won't mind it as long as Delta opens up Row 10 for elites to pre-select instead of holding them for airport control. I've flown on a few NW DC-9s in Row 5 (no chance for an upgrade as a DL elite) and like the fact that there's underseat storage, a ton of legroom, easy on-off access...by far my favourite seats on the planes. Just put a small hanging divider (like what European airlines use to seperate Business and Economy) and it's fine by me.
MPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 935 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6206 times:
Ok i understand but one must remember that service isn't what it used to be. I have had kids kick the seats in coach and your right it is annoying. I guess we will just have to deal. Hasn't NW done without them for quite a while now. I think that DeltAirlines has it right about a mutually beneficial situation.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 19 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6138 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5): I won't mind it as long as Delta opens up Row 10 for elites to pre-select instead of holding them for airport control.
Won't happen. It needs to remain open for passengers with disabilites. Part of Delta's agreement with the DOT several years ago.
Opening up would lead to more elite passengers being displaced from their seat requests to accomadate the passengers with special needs.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1): This is not a class thing so much as a kid kicking the back of the seat thing, but I would imagine that since airlines like to seat kids in the first row of Y and kids like to kick seats, that removing this bulkhead will suck. Especially because you may get an envious mother who does nothing to stop her kid from kicking the "rich jerk".
Well on DL the bulkhead typically goes to passengers with disabilites. If none than it goes to elites. Occassionally when none present themselves at the gate or counter requesting bulkhead seating than it will go to a family trying to sit together that had scattered seats. The chances of you being kicked are minimal assuming you choose to always sit in the last row of first class.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6097 times:
Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 7): Won't happen. It needs to remain open for passengers with disabilites. Part of Delta's agreement with the DOT several years ago.
Opening up would lead to more elite passengers being displaced from their seat requests to accomadate the passengers with special needs.
Just curious as to why Delta would have to place disabled passengers in the bulkhead. Northwest allows half the bulkhead to be reserved for disabled passengers (one side of the plane) and the other half for any elites, and then there is another row of seats in the front part of the coach cabin that only disabled passengers can reserve (passengers have to talk to an agent to be assigned these seats, and they can only be reserved for disabled patrons until the 24-hour mark when all seats open up). I would think this would be the most pleasing situation to everyone - allows elites a shot at getting some bulkhead seats, while still maintaining seats for disabled flyers.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21243 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6072 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8): I would think this would be the most pleasing situation to everyone - allows elites a shot at getting some bulkhead seats, while still maintaining seats for disabled flyers.
NW also will bump elites from bulkheads when necessary to accomodate an unusually large number of disabled pax, so I really don't see why DL must leave them open. If NW needs them, NW makes them available (one way or another).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5943 times:
Quoting Alitalia744 (Thread starter): Thoughts? I know Air Canada is currently implementing this on the nb aircraft...
This has been in effect for some time on AC's A319's & A320's. I believe the A321's are next. It is a definite weight reduction, but at the time of conversion, it was done mainly for "real estate" purposes, at the request of marketing. It allowed the company to slide in an extra row of Y/C seating.
The only real nuisance is that customers who are in the first row of Economy are now tapping on the seat backs of the last row of Business Class, programming their AVOD TV's.
DeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5935 times:
I always pick the last row of F when I upgrade on DL due to the fact that most F/As let you leave the seat reclined during takeoff/landing, since it doesn't impede the seat behind you. I almost always sleep on flights, and this helps a lot. I guess if they get rid of the bulkhead, that will change.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5917 times:
I wish US and CO would do this on the 757's. It'd be a lot more confortable. I'd like to see that on the 737NG that CO has.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 19 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5798 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8): Just curious as to why Delta would have to place disabled passengers in the bulkhead.
The bulkhead has to be available to passengers with disabilities per ADA/DOT requirements. DL has elected as part of a huge settlement with the DOT to keep these seats vacant and readily available to anyone with a disability. The seats are available to customers with disabilities 331 days in advance up to 30 minutes prior to departure time. The seats will then be assigned to those that made the request with the gate agent or to passengers awaiting seat assignments. If you want a bulkhead just request it at the gate; there is a good chance you will get it, but I would assume everyone is sympathetic to the needs of the disabled.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5694 times:
These new moves by DL are the right economic decision, but I grumble as a passenger b/c on multiple points service elements are decreased. I understand the decision, but am saddended to think that this means that some things won't come back (as if it wasn't clear already).
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5681 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4): I've sat in Row 4 plenty of times on NW aircraft
I try to get the last row in F if upgraded so people don't bang the back of the seat or grab the seat for support when getting up.
I could care less about seperation of class or any of that crap, though i would also assume that having solid bulkheads in the cabin help to mitigate noise transfer.
Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 7): Well on DL the bulkhead typically goes to passengers with disabilites
Another reason I wouldn't like this, as they are the most likely pax to grab the back of the next seat for support when getting up.
Anyway, I fly CO most often, and only the 735s, IIRC, have curtain bulkheads vs. fixed ones.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
DeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5645 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15): Another reason I wouldn't like this, as they are the most likely pax to grab the back of the next seat for support when getting up.
I still can't get over the lack of people's ability to comprehend and adapt to change. How many times does this happen, honestly. Most passengers with a disability get up what 10 times a flight? I tend to forget how mobile they are. Or maybe that is just on your flights.
ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE APPLAUDING DELTA's EFFORTS TO CONSERVE FUEL. Because it is precious to all of us whether we fly or not.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15): Anyway, I fly CO most often, and only the 735s, IIRC, have curtain bulkheads vs. fixed ones.
Then the move will have even smaller of an impact on you.
Quoting B4real (Reply 14): I grumble as a passenger b/c on multiple points service elements are decreased.
I really see how. Most of the examples probably go unnoticed on a day to day basis (when they actually do occur), but are only being point out to make it seem as though the decision isn't in the best interest of the consumer. When in actuality it will benefit far more than it will impact.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
Bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2411 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5471 times:
Bravo Delta!!!!! The bulkhead row on a 738 are the WORST seats on any DL airplane. I am not a tall person but I had NO legroom at all in those miserable seats. The bulkhead row in a CRJ has more legroom. I never knew I had claustrophobia until I sat there.
I'm going to borrow a phrase from Ronald Regan and twist it a little:
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5409 times:
Why don't they start with the obvious and install winglets on their 737-800s before getting to the drastic measures, I've gotten so accustomed to the 737-700s/800s with Winglets that seeing one without the winglets looks out of place.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3861 times:
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3538 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 20): Why don't they start with the obvious and install winglets on their 737-800s before getting to the drastic measures, I've gotten so accustomed to the 737-700s/800s with Winglets that seeing one without the winglets looks out of place.
Probably because the 738s are still used on quite a few runs where winglets would only mean additional weight. That said, the 757s coming from AA will have winglets, so that is at least something.
LawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 968 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3366 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 23): That said, the 757s coming from AA will have winglets
Hmm...I'm not so sure about that. The 757s coming from AA are the P&W powered ones formerly used by TW (re-stating what has been discussed). They are not owned by AA, and I don't believe AA had any plans to add winglets on to 757s other than their RR powered examples.
25 Widget1580: Delta allows you to change your seating assignments on their website. If you have a problem with the bulkhead being removed, change your seat. Just be
26 DAL767400ER: Didn't mean that they already have winglets coming from AA. What I mean is that once DL takes delivery of those planes starting next summer, they wil
27 Tod: This is the main reason the some airlines chose a "mudflap" divider over a rigid class divider. You can place the first Y seat must further forward t
28 Ckfred: It seems to me that one advantage is that people in the bulkhead would now have underseat stowage space, under the last row of First. The disavantage
29 474218: Where do they get the money to pay for these winglets? Remember they are in bankruptcy. Taking the bulkheads out only requires labor but adding wingl
30 FlyHoss: Yet, DL does have the money to buy a route from UA (a good move IMHO): RE: DL JFK-LGW Receives Tentative DOT Approval (by Commavia Aug 26 2006 in Civ
31 OttoPylit: LOL What sales would be diminished? No seats are being removed. No seating differences are affected. So no loss of revenue sales. Personally, I am sa
32 4xRuv: Oh man, What's next? Maybe they'll remove tha toilets from the plane? just leave holes instead? Or maybe A Y-- class where you just sit on the floor t
33 Aeroplan73: I realize the business class service would remain intact, but the overall experience could be diminished. A simple curtain wouldn't provide the kind
34 Cubsrule: How much noisier is it really? I fly NW a lot, and I really don't notice that much noise from Y.
35 Ikramerica: Why, exactly, should all people embrace all change? If the change is negative, why accept it. Because Delta's doing it and thus it can't be the wrong
36 Cubsrule: What's the problem? If you are sitting in another row of F, the F passenger behind you can do it just as easily. FWIW, I cannot ever remember having
37 Alitalia744: Easy there Ikramerica, not all Delta fan boys think this way. I think it's a shitty idea and it annoys me to no end. There have to be other ways for
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From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, 
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From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, 
The bulkhead row on a 738 are the WORST seats on any DL airplane. 
I am not a tall person but I had NO legroom at all in those miserable seats. The bulkhead row in a CRJ has more legroom. I never knew I had claustrophobia until I sat there. 
From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, 
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