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Passengers Trapped On Virgin Atlantic Flight 63  
User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 17024 times:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obje...apped-on-flight-63--name_page.html

Robert NWDC10

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16925 times:

8.45am Passengers begin boarding flight VS63 from Gatwick to Havana

9.30am Flight due to depart

10.00am Passengers finish boarding. Doors closed

11.00am Crew announce there is a technical problem which will take 15 minutes

11.30am Passengers told they are waiting for a spare part

1.30pm Crew announce the spare part has arrived. Take-off "soon"

2.45pm Passengers told inflight meals may have to be replaced. If not cleared for take-off by 3.30pm crew won't be able to fly

3.25pm Plane begins to taxi for take-off

3.35pm Take-off stopped

3.45pm Captain says plane has a misshapen tyre and will have to go back to the terminal

4pm Flight cancelled. Police board plane amid fears of rioting

4.30pm Passengers are allowed off but told they must wait for their luggag



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16790 times:

Quoting Soups (Reply 1):
2.45pm Passengers told inflight meals may have to be replaced. If not cleared for take-off by 3.30pm crew won't be able to fly

3.25pm Plane begins to taxi for take-off

3.35pm Take-off stopped

Is it possible that the PIC aborted the take-off because the crew already went over their time duty limitations ?


User currently offlineAirWales From UK - Wales, joined Oct 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16778 times:

If I was on there I certainly wouldnt want to leave with a doubt that something may be wrong with the plane.

But on the other hand I wouldnt want to be stuck on there with no info etc for that length of time! Its bad enough being in economy when you are in the air - at least the the distance between you and your destination is getting less with every minute that passes!

Not good P.R. for Virgin at all!

AirWales.


User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16778 times:

Dear god. This was on the radio this morning saying they were trapped on the runway. I knew then it was probably blown out of proportion!

Quoting (Thread starter):
Take-off was finally aborted as the Boeing 747 taxied up the runway with a car driving alongside frantically signalling that the jet had an over-inflated tyre.

First I've heard of a car chasing a car along an active runway - somehow me thinks this statement is a little warped.

Quoting (Thread starter):
Passenger Philip Robinson said: "You could feel the plane going bump, bump. God knows what could have happened if it had tried to take off.

Err - how about that was probably the cats eyes?

Gotta love the British tabloids!


User currently offlineOrlando666 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

i also think thats due to staff hours. pity - 5mins over!!! poor pax, bet they would have prefered waiting in the terminal.

I remember MH ex-AMS once had a delay only of 3hours, we were all allowed to de-plane and wait in terminal (secure area) and MH crew came with trolleys of drinks and snacks. Now thats more professional I think. VS at its home base cannot provide the same?


User currently offlineGib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 285 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

Man, these 'happenings' seem to be more & more commonplace. (ie the plane recently that the pax were 'trapped' on where the temperature reached 90F+....ORD?)

User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 16701 times:

Quoting Soups (Reply 1):
10.00am Passengers finish boarding. Doors closed

11.00am Crew announce there is a technical problem which will take 15 minutes

So does that mean the passengers waited an hour after boarding until any announcement at all was made? I don't think so. Someone on board, a passenger, must have been asking some questions.
There must have been something going on during the hour.
Cheers,
AY104



The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 16662 times:

As NoelG says - this was a British tabloid paper reporting this - so take it with a UPS frieghter full of salt - the passengers may well of been informed lots but leaving that bit out of the story will make things more interesting!

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 16405 times:

From the article: This ws a flight to HAV; had mx issues that took several hours to deal with; then upon takeoff, it was discovered and confirmed by a following car on the taxiway that there was a 'misshapen' tire (tyre) - that could have caused a blowout on the ground at take off or on landing, a serious possible problem; there was no food offered and only water 2 times. They had to offload the pax meals due to health issues. Of course, pax were pissed as under the latest security rules, no one had any food or water on them. This incident was worsened as duty rules were exceeded to allow for flight time, hense leading to cancellation of the flight.
There should be rules by all airlines that if forced by mx to stay on the groud, and especially in warm weather that on a set schedule that beverages and food be given, heat/airconditioning be provided, that after a set # of hours pax must be offloaded in a secure terminal gate area for their health and safety. Someday a pax with a medical condition will die under one of these situations and lawsuits will ensue.


User currently offlineRaventom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 16339 times:

"Take-off was finally aborted as the Boeing 747 taxied up the runway with a car driving alongside frantically signalling that the jet had an over-inflated tyre."

Yes because a car 'frantically' signals... stupid media



I love the smell of burnt kerosene!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineJoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 814 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 16142 times:

MISTAKES ON A PLANE


oh dear god..what a load of crap


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15818 times:

Which Tire was it.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlyboy14295 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15499 times:

This has got to be one of the most over-rated media think since the Jetblue landed without its front tire. Its amazing how much people these days need their media spiced up to even listen to it. Also, the car wouldn't be operating on the movement area without a radio so he probably called his dispatcher and they called tower. He frantically signaled, he turned on his hazard lights? Or jumped up and waved?


Greetings from New York. "Take It to the limit." -Eagles
User currently offlineAeroPeru From United States of America, joined May 2005, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15312 times:

Quoting Raventom (Reply 10):
"Take-off was finally aborted as the Boeing 747 taxied up the runway with a car driving alongside frantically signalling that the jet had an over-inflated tyre."

Yes because a car 'frantically' signals... stupid media

I guess that the next article should be:
"due to cost cutting measures, VS no longer utilizes radios for communications and just sends cars out to 'frantically' signal aircraft"

Hey, at least the media gives us good stuff to chew on this site....  Smile



Alas peruanas en los cielos del mundo....
User currently offlineAirTran717 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14478 times:

Been in this situation myself as a crew member. In LGA, on a double mx. Meaning that our plane broke, then the plane being sent to replace it broke at the gate upon arrival in LGA. We timed out too. NYPD escorted us through the mob at the gate to our hotel van. Our PIC had preflighted the cockpit of our B717-200 out of sequence and caused fault and fail flags all over the cockpit. We timed out for this and all that was needed in the end was a power down, 15 minute wait, a power up and we could have gone. Come to find out, the PIC had just upgraded and flunked the sim ride twice. I would have thought that he would have been given his walking papers based on what I have been told in the past. But I felt very frustrated because he was not giving the crew any info, so I couldn't pass along any word to the pax. They could see I was doing what I could. But pissed is pissed. They almost rioted on us. So, between the pilot and the mechanics, no one caught this minor little glitch. And our last day of a 3-day turned into a 4-day trip.

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14131 times:

Quoting Flyboy14295 (Reply 13):
This has got to be one of the most over-rated media think since the Jetblue landed without its front tire.

Like hell.

I bet you'd have a different opinion if you were onboard for that long! It's inexcusable.


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14021 times:

Quoting Noelg (Reply 4):
First I've heard of a car chasing a car along an active runway

A car chasing a CAR ???

Quoting Noelg (Reply 4):
Err - how about that was probably the cats eyes?

Cats eyes are on roads not airfields - do you mean the centre line lights ?.


This story is a typical British gutter press nothing story that has been edited and over dramatised to make it out to be worse than what it is.

Lets put things in perspective here from an Airline point of view :-

ALL airlines have tech delays period - every single one of them do.

A rolling tech delay as happened here is the worst case. You think it will take x amount of time to fix, but as the job goes on, it takes longer and longer, especially when the required parts are not immediately available.

If the pax are in the terminal, it isn't a huge issue, as you can send them back into the departure lounge to wait, however if they are already on the a/c, then you are stuck in a catch 22 situation.

It will take at least 1.5 hours to de-board and re-board a full 747. Remember that not everyone comes through the gate in alphabetical order, and if you are de-planeing and planning to re-board again, you have to give the b/passes and tickets back. This takes time to collate them all back together in alphabetical order to be able to give them back to the pax, as ticket coupons and b/passes will usually be in seperate piles. This takes the most time to do and has to be done before you can let the pax off.

What do you do if the delay is supposed to take 15 mins to fix ?. You keep everyone on the a/c. Then the time to fix it gets put back a while, but unless it is put back by over 1.5 hours min, there is no point taking everyone off, so you leave them on. You also have to get permission from the Airport Authority to de-plane back into the departure lounge, and due to recent security problems, this might not have been given anyway, but the article doesn't mention this. If you do take them off, and then the plane is suddenly fixed, you then have to try and round everyone up again to get them back on to get the flight away ASAP, and it ends up being later than if you left them onboard.

However, you can't serve the food as you they will need to eat on the flight and it isn't possible to just magic up a whole new load of catering for a 747 full of pax. That would need a minimum of 4 hours if your lucky, if the delay is estimated to be less then that then new catering wouldn't be ordered. So you don't serve meals and wait. You also cannot open the bars on the ground, so a limited soft drinks service is all that can be offered - again it will take roughly an hour to get these items replenished from the catering companies - which are no doubt located off airport.

Parts arrive and then get fixed, however by now the meals have been out of cold storage for too long now to be used safely under H and S regulations, so you can't use them - again you can't get anymore either as it would take too long and you think the flight will be going soon and you want to get the pax on their way ASAP.

Then plane is fixed, and goes out for take-off, however the problem isn't fixed after all and they have to return to the gate.

By this time the crew have gone out of hours and the flight has to be cancelled.

The passenger were never "trapped". Any person is free to leave an a/c that is still on the ground at any point if they so wish - however thats where things get complicated. If a pax demands to leave (against what the airline is advising them to do), as they are entitled to do so the airline cannot stop them, but if they do then it is deemed that they left of their own accord so any subsequent insurance claim could be deemed null and void.

So the airline is really stuck between a rock and a hard place in a rolling tech delay situation. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is just an unfortunate situation to be in, and one that will happen again and again in the future to almost every airline at some stage.

The airline really wants the a/c to go as much as the passengers do. The airline could have to spend thousands of ££ and a number of days getting that a/c back on schedule after a delay, so that is the last thing they want, yet they end up with a slating in the gutter press for it regardless.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineYYZSaabGuy From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 13770 times:

Excellent summary and a nice sense of perspective....thanks for the analysis! Good to hear the other side of the story........

User currently offlineGeo772 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13169 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 17):

An excellent response, describing a situation I have encountered before - as the engineer attending the aircraft rather than as a passenger and this is exactly how things pan out.



Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12452 times:

Same old story: LACK OF COMMUNICATIONS=ANGRY PAX!

For heavens sake---tell 'em something!

Situations like that certainly leave me outraged.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12363 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 17):
Cats eyes are on roads not airfields - do you mean the centre line lights ?.

Whatever they are called, what caused the bumping was the tire flat spots. A 747 can't sit fully loaded for 7 hours without putting heavy flat spots on the tires, and that'll cause that bumping all the way through take-off. But since pax don't know this, they'll attribute it to a bulging sidewall if you tell them one existed...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11406 times:

At least there weren't snakes on the plane as well!

User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11201 times:

So, is Virgin trying to pull a United except they had air conditioning and 2 times longer?

7 hours? Thats rediculous. As much as an avaiation lover I am, even my patience would be pushed to the limit.



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11093 times:

Why is it necessary to give them their boarding passes back? You could just let them all get off and when they get back on, check their ID against the other part of their boarding passes. Of course, it would still take at least 45m to load the plane again.

25 Glom : We have them on the taxiways. Then again our aerodrome lighting is crap.
26 Turkee : I cannot believe they left the passengers on board the aircraft for a MX problem. Is this normal? Anything over a 30 minute delay here would see the p
27 747-600X : I was on a Northwest DC-10 in Minneapolis for 3 hours one time... they said that some part of the cockpit had to be replaced (a dial or other superfic
28 FiveMileFinal : I remember back in '97 or so I was on a NW DC-10 from SFO-MSP and we had to divert to DSM because there was a wall of severe storms marching through
29 B747-437B : Except that the airline is now stuck with another delay as they have to go diving to remove the pax bag. If the holds are closed up that means gettin
30 CayMan : There are plenty of very good explanations for what happened and yes the media blows it out of proportion HOWEVER the point is, at some point airline
31 Post contains images Vaporlock : I sure wouldn't have liked being "trapped" on the plane with no info for that length of time either.... I hate being in confined spaces.... if I can'
32 Post contains images SW733 : Snakes on a Plane?
33 HAWK21M : Seen this happening often.Security reasons cannot permit Flight with Pax bag & not pax. Sometimes it difficult to predict Mx time for rectification &
34 MotorHussy : How angry would you be? Imagine what Richard Branson would have to say if it was a BA flight. MH
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