AirWales From UK - Wales, joined Oct 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17295 times:
If I was on there I certainly wouldnt want to leave with a doubt that something may be wrong with the plane.
But on the other hand I wouldnt want to be stuck on there with no info etc for that length of time! Its bad enough being in economy when you are in the air - at least the the distance between you and your destination is getting less with every minute that passes!
Orlando666 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17275 times:
i also think thats due to staff hours. pity - 5mins over!!! poor pax, bet they would have prefered waiting in the terminal.
I remember MH ex-AMS once had a delay only of 3hours, we were all allowed to de-plane and wait in terminal (secure area) and MH crew came with trolleys of drinks and snacks. Now thats more professional I think. VS at its home base cannot provide the same?
11.00am Crew announce there is a technical problem which will take 15 minutes
So does that mean the passengers waited an hour after boarding until any announcement at all was made? I don't think so. Someone on board, a passenger, must have been asking some questions.
There must have been something going on during the hour.
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3433 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17179 times:
As NoelG says - this was a British tabloid paper reporting this - so take it with a UPS frieghter full of salt - the passengers may well of been informed lots but leaving that bit out of the story will make things more interesting!
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13495 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16922 times:
From the article: This ws a flight to HAV; had mx issues that took several hours to deal with; then upon takeoff, it was discovered and confirmed by a following car on the taxiway that there was a 'misshapen' tire (tyre) - that could have caused a blowout on the ground at take off or on landing, a serious possible problem; there was no food offered and only water 2 times. They had to offload the pax meals due to health issues. Of course, pax were pissed as under the latest security rules, no one had any food or water on them. This incident was worsened as duty rules were exceeded to allow for flight time, hense leading to cancellation of the flight.
There should be rules by all airlines that if forced by mx to stay on the groud, and especially in warm weather that on a set schedule that beverages and food be given, heat/airconditioning be provided, that after a set # of hours pax must be offloaded in a secure terminal gate area for their health and safety. Someday a pax with a medical condition will die under one of these situations and lawsuits will ensue.
Flyboy14295 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16016 times:
This has got to be one of the most over-rated media think since the Jetblue landed without its front tire. Its amazing how much people these days need their media spiced up to even listen to it. Also, the car wouldn't be operating on the movement area without a radio so he probably called his dispatcher and they called tower. He frantically signaled, he turned on his hazard lights? Or jumped up and waved?
Greetings from New York. "Take It to the limit." -Eagles
AirTran717 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14995 times:
Been in this situation myself as a crew member. In LGA, on a double mx. Meaning that our plane broke, then the plane being sent to replace it broke at the gate upon arrival in LGA. We timed out too. NYPD escorted us through the mob at the gate to our hotel van. Our PIC had preflighted the cockpit of our B717-200 out of sequence and caused fault and fail flags all over the cockpit. We timed out for this and all that was needed in the end was a power down, 15 minute wait, a power up and we could have gone. Come to find out, the PIC had just upgraded and flunked the sim ride twice. I would have thought that he would have been given his walking papers based on what I have been told in the past. But I felt very frustrated because he was not giving the crew any info, so I couldn't pass along any word to the pax. They could see I was doing what I could. But pissed is pissed. They almost rioted on us. So, between the pilot and the mechanics, no one caught this minor little glitch. And our last day of a 3-day turned into a 4-day trip.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4045 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14538 times:
Quoting Noelg (Reply 4): First I've heard of a car chasing a car along an active runway
A car chasing a CAR ???
Quoting Noelg (Reply 4): Err - how about that was probably the cats eyes?
Cats eyes are on roads not airfields - do you mean the centre line lights ?.
This story is a typical British gutter press nothing story that has been edited and over dramatised to make it out to be worse than what it is.
Lets put things in perspective here from an Airline point of view :-
ALL airlines have tech delays period - every single one of them do.
A rolling tech delay as happened here is the worst case. You think it will take x amount of time to fix, but as the job goes on, it takes longer and longer, especially when the required parts are not immediately available.
If the pax are in the terminal, it isn't a huge issue, as you can send them back into the departure lounge to wait, however if they are already on the a/c, then you are stuck in a catch 22 situation.
It will take at least 1.5 hours to de-board and re-board a full 747. Remember that not everyone comes through the gate in alphabetical order, and if you are de-planeing and planning to re-board again, you have to give the b/passes and tickets back. This takes time to collate them all back together in alphabetical order to be able to give them back to the pax, as ticket coupons and b/passes will usually be in seperate piles. This takes the most time to do and has to be done before you can let the pax off.
What do you do if the delay is supposed to take 15 mins to fix ?. You keep everyone on the a/c. Then the time to fix it gets put back a while, but unless it is put back by over 1.5 hours min, there is no point taking everyone off, so you leave them on. You also have to get permission from the Airport Authority to de-plane back into the departure lounge, and due to recent security problems, this might not have been given anyway, but the article doesn't mention this. If you do take them off, and then the plane is suddenly fixed, you then have to try and round everyone up again to get them back on to get the flight away ASAP, and it ends up being later than if you left them onboard.
However, you can't serve the food as you they will need to eat on the flight and it isn't possible to just magic up a whole new load of catering for a 747 full of pax. That would need a minimum of 4 hours if your lucky, if the delay is estimated to be less then that then new catering wouldn't be ordered. So you don't serve meals and wait. You also cannot open the bars on the ground, so a limited soft drinks service is all that can be offered - again it will take roughly an hour to get these items replenished from the catering companies - which are no doubt located off airport.
Parts arrive and then get fixed, however by now the meals have been out of cold storage for too long now to be used safely under H and S regulations, so you can't use them - again you can't get anymore either as it would take too long and you think the flight will be going soon and you want to get the pax on their way ASAP.
Then plane is fixed, and goes out for take-off, however the problem isn't fixed after all and they have to return to the gate.
By this time the crew have gone out of hours and the flight has to be cancelled.
The passenger were never "trapped". Any person is free to leave an a/c that is still on the ground at any point if they so wish - however thats where things get complicated. If a pax demands to leave (against what the airline is advising them to do), as they are entitled to do so the airline cannot stop them, but if they do then it is deemed that they left of their own accord so any subsequent insurance claim could be deemed null and void.
So the airline is really stuck between a rock and a hard place in a rolling tech delay situation. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is just an unfortunate situation to be in, and one that will happen again and again in the future to almost every airline at some stage.
The airline really wants the a/c to go as much as the passengers do. The airline could have to spend thousands of ££ and a number of days getting that a/c back on schedule after a delay, so that is the last thing they want, yet they end up with a slating in the gutter press for it regardless.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21907 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12880 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 17): Cats eyes are on roads not airfields - do you mean the centre line lights ?.
Whatever they are called, what caused the bumping was the tire flat spots. A 747 can't sit fully loaded for 7 hours without putting heavy flat spots on the tires, and that'll cause that bumping all the way through take-off. But since pax don't know this, they'll attribute it to a bulging sidewall if you tell them one existed...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Peterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11610 times:
Why is it necessary to give them their boarding passes back? You could just let them all get off and when they get back on, check their ID against the other part of their boarding passes. Of course, it would still take at least 45m to load the plane again.
: We have them on the taxiways. Then again our aerodrome lighting is crap.
: I cannot believe they left the passengers on board the aircraft for a MX problem. Is this normal? Anything over a 30 minute delay here would see the p
: I was on a Northwest DC-10 in Minneapolis for 3 hours one time... they said that some part of the cockpit had to be replaced (a dial or other superfic
: I remember back in '97 or so I was on a NW DC-10 from SFO-MSP and we had to divert to DSM because there was a wall of severe storms marching through
: Except that the airline is now stuck with another delay as they have to go diving to remove the pax bag. If the holds are closed up that means gettin
: There are plenty of very good explanations for what happened and yes the media blows it out of proportion HOWEVER the point is, at some point airline
: I sure wouldn't have liked being "trapped" on the plane with no info for that length of time either.... I hate being in confined spaces.... if I can'