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Rumor Of New A380 Delays?  
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12039 times:

I've been traveling the past few weeks, but is this talk new about purported additional delays?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9067-2328109,00.html

Doesn't say how much of a delay but the fact that it supposedly is being made by employees is troublesome.


I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12000 times:

whatever, nothing significant here. Just spin, that's it.

and Im a big Boeing fan.


KrisYYZ


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4045 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12000 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
Doesn't say how much of a delay but the fact that it supposedly is being made by employees is troublesome.

Given the executive leadership crises in Toulouse that emerged last spring, it wouldn't surprise me to say the least. But then again there is always going to be a group(s) of disgruntled employees ANYWHERE or project managers not happy with the personnel above them making the critical decisions.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11938 times:

Airbus has said that new delays are still possible on the A380 pending the outcome of an external audit. So this would not be a surprise, and I suspect that the head os EADS did say this to prepare the market and the customers for follow on delays.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11938 times:

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 1):
whatever, nothing significant here. Just spin, that's it.

Well, I wonder if our Airbus pom-pom team will think of it as spin, especially since the news report emanates from a French daily rather than the one in Seattle.

But I will admit, there's not much detail to the article which does leave some doubt. On the other hand, it doesn't look good when it's employees of Airbus who are apparently stepping up to make the claims.

Here's another article, just as devoid of details, from a financial report:

http://www.hemscott.com/news/latest-news/item.do?newsId=35847944581316



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11904 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
Rumor Of New A380 Delays?

 Sad

anything goes..


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11904 times:

The Times seems to have a quite heavy anti-bus bias at the moment (which is strange) I wouldn't take this too seriously at the moment - does anyone know if they've started shipping components again to TLS which will show whether production issues have been ironed out?

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11829 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
The Times seems to have a quite heavy anti-bus bias at the moment

The Times is merely repeating a story originally reported in a French publication, "Les Echos."


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11724 times:

And the original publication said the following - I have it right here in front of me and the translations are my own.

Quoting Julien Talavan, head of the FO labor union at Airbus France:
"There are several rumors making the rounds here, some say we will be on-time and others say there are more delays. It is difficult to say"

Bernard Cazes - Employee Representative from the CGT union commenting on the delays talked about the fact that they have not restarted the final assembly line as planned on August 16th "But even last week it hasn't started back up again."

They also mention that the A380 convoy in August has been cancelled.

Keesje, you can dismiss what the Boeing fans post here, but you can't ignore these comments from real Airbus employees in one of the most respected French newspapers.

-n1786b


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11579 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
The Times seems to have a quite heavy anti-bus bias at the moment

The Times is merely repeating a story originally reported in a French publication, "Les Echos."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9067-2328118.html

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2325970.html

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,10295-2324601.html


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 8):
They also mention that the A380 convoy in August has been cancelled.

Wouldn't this fact alone be the biggest harbinger of additional delays?

I recall last spring a poster suggested delays in the program because some convoys were cancelled. He was severely spanked on this board by the Noble Protectors of All Things Airbus for making such a heretical comment, but was eventually vindicated.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11492 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 8):
Keesje, you can dismiss what the Boeing fans post here, but you can't ignore these comments from real Airbus employees in one of the most respected French newspapers.

It is not so hard to actively create a curtain general feeling / believe around some companies, persons, people, culture or whatever by consistently picking out / repeating rumors, quotes etc that cummulatively lead to a conclusion.

I think it has nothing to do with telling the truth or practising good journalism.

If you like we can start one for Boeing by grabbing BS from the net and repeat it endlessly in different forms:

Boeing denies 787 delivery delays again..
http://english.people.com.cn/200606/21/eng20060621_275945.html

Boeing to nose dive as a result of 787 delays?
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...eingSharesCouldFallFromTheSky.aspx

Have Boeing scandals come to an end yet?
http://www.king5.com/business/storie...eing_mcnerneyapologyJM.d0221b.html

Must I go on? Perhaps better not.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11436 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
If you like we can start one for Boeing by grabbing BS from the net and repeat it endlessly in different forms:

Boeing denies 787 delivery delays again..
http://english.people.com.cn/200606/21/eng20060621_275945.html

Boeing to nose dive as a result of 787 delays?
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...eingSharesCouldFallFromTheSky.aspx

Have Boeing scandals come to an end yet?
http://www.king5.com/business/storie...eing_mcnerneyapologyJM.d0221b.html

Must I go on? Perhaps better not.

Keesje: You must be under the impression that one shouldn't talk about rumors, be they Boeing or Airbus. I think we should talk about all of them and, personally, I think there's a lot of validity to the rumors circulating about regarding the purported delays on the 787.

By all means, go on!

Regards,

R



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

News papers and every other source of media pick and choose what stories they want to cover/publish. Im sure there are stories about the A380's successes during its ongoing fligths testing phase, but if a media sources, be it American or european, wants to paint a picture that is to their liking they can.

Lets not talk about the B787 here, it still in its very very early stages of initial production, any talk about delivery delays is strictly anecdotal and hypothetical.

KrisYYZ

[Edited 2006-08-25 17:27:19]

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 10):
Quoting N1786b (Reply 8):
They also mention that the A380 convoy in August has been cancelled.

Wouldn't this fact alone be the biggest harbinger of additional delays?

I recall last spring a poster suggested delays in the program because some convoys were cancelled. He was severely spanked on this board by the Noble Protectors of All Things Airbus for making such a heretical comment, but was eventually vindicated.

see: A380 Production Problems? (by WingedMigrator May 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2783103


User currently offlineFirennice From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

Its much easier to make up time with years to go untill production, than in production.

Boeing could still pull things even.

Then again they could fall farther behind. We are still not seeing testing being done at some facilites making the major CFRP Body parts. While others are far into production. I would think that they would need to be on similar schedules.... But they can push to trim delivery times.

But if airbus is having problems no day can be made up. In the factory they are in production runs. So a slowdown is lost dollars, black eyes.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11337 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 10):
Quoting N1786b (Reply 8):
They also mention that the A380 convoy in August has been cancelled.

Wouldn't this fact alone be the biggest harbinger of additional delays?

I recall last spring a poster suggested delays in the program because some convoys were cancelled. He was severely spanked on this board by the Noble Protectors of All Things Airbus for making such a heretical comment, but was eventually vindicated.


see: A380 Production Problems? (by WingedMigrator May 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2783103

Looking at the website from the original post the August convoy was supposed to be 7th to the 10th so it must of been cancelled a while back - there's one scheduled for sometime in September. Speaking to my contact with some access to Broughton - there's loads of A380 wingsets ready to go anyone know how long the boat journey for the wingsets is - we should be able to tell if there's a further issue if the boat leaves on time.


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11282 times:

Well, you can go on thinking what you will, but you are going to need some better examples. I do not see a direct quote from a Boeing employee (by NAME) that says something against the company's publically announced position.

It isn't BS from the net, you have employees saying things are not going according to schedule. The French press reported rumors quoting French employees of Airbus France BY NAME calling into question the official delivery schedule. Even the new boss of Airbus hasn't ruled out additional delays. You have to admit (but you won't) that Airbus' credibility has taken a might big hit over the A380 delivery mess. And the reporter is saying that there are signs that it isn't over yet.

The article says:

- August 16th target date to reopen the assembly line missed
- August A380 convoy cancelled
- Rumors circulating among employees that there may be additional delays

Anyhow, what is your spin on that? "Everything is hunky dory and Les Echos needs to send their reporters back to journalism school"?

I hope that the new management team at Airbus will be straightforward, humble (their words, not mine), and objective when they finish their audit.

-n1786b


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11168 times:

It's not impossible for any high tech project to have problems - just look at Microsoft and their Longhorn/Vista project.

I personally believe that Boeing is in the better position today (and maybe only today) as they are still in the development phase that has time built in for addressing problems like weight or software integration. Airbus is far closer to needing to deliver and is still facing challenges. It is far from unlikely that there will be addition delays, even if for a month or two, if Airbus is not happy with the plane as is. They face a far greater challenge delivering a product with bugs than Microsoft does!

Like all major aircraft programs, the dust will eventually settle and both the 380 and 787 can be judged on how they actually perform in day to day operations. That's a few years down the line, even for the 380.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13070 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11135 times:

Don't forget that this is August, most people in France are on vacation/holiday for the month, so it might not be improbable that adjustments in manufacturing dates may be delayed until enough workers return from vacation. In the meantime the media is bored and August it usally a show news time so these are probably rumors to keep people reading their newspapers and keep the Boeing fans in a tizzy....  duck 

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11119 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 18):
I hope that the new management team at Airbus will be straightforward, humble (their words, not mine), and objective when they finish their audit.

In the now infamous "leaked" May 12th Audit Committee Minutes, when attempting to assess the likelihood of additional delays, Dr. Humbert indicated that the results from the early long flights (ELF) test programme were critical, because it was the only reliable means of evaluating how well efforts to address the wiring harness/cabin integration "problems" had succeeded. IIRC, this testing is now scheduled to commence September 4th. Stay tuned.


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10847 times:

If there are more delays coming, it would behove the new management to get the bad news out now and place the blame on the old management, which is where it belongs.

If they wait too long, they take ownership of the problem, and hurt their credibility to boot.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10673 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 12):
Keesje: You must be under the impression that one shouldn't talk about rumors, be they Boeing or Airbus. I think we should talk about all of them and, personally, I think there's a lot of validity to the rumors circulating about regarding the purported delays on the 787.

Don't worry. Keesje doesn't understand the concept of credibility.

He doesn't understand why people doubt Airbus after the A380 and A340NG debut months if not years late. He doesn't understand why Airbus is doubted after technical problems plauged the A380 and A340NG. He doesn't understand why Airbus performance claims are doubted after Airbus clearly misses program goals.

I too would doubt Boeing if the 787 was months behind schedule. But for the time being, all indications are the 787-8 is on schedule. That can change in two years, and I don't think it's unreasonable to anticipate delay. In many regards, the 787 is moving along very smoothly with an order backlog growing steadily by the week.

To immediatly point at the 787 once it's suggested that the twice delayed A380 may possibly face another setback is immature at best.


User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10481 times:

Today's news :

-Boeing to lose fees for GPS overruns, delays, Air Force says
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ogy/2003223207_webboeinggps24.html

-US stocks: Boeing issues lacklustre forecast
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3&ObjectID=10393284

-Airlines express disappointment over Connexion shutdown, Lufthansa ...
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...Lufthansa+seeks+post-December.html

-Embraer blames build quality and delivery issues for Kawasaki Heavy Industries E-190 production contract revision - KHI is predominately a Boeing supplier and manufactures fuselage sections for the 777 and the 787.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...y+Industries+E-190+production.html

...

How can we trust Boeing ?



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 25):
2) Boeing has gained the trust of airlines and the reputation of delivering what it promised to them, very much unlike Airbus

They had a performance issue with some versions of the A340 and a delivery issue with the A380.

Don't tell me Boeing never had some performance issues on some versions of their airplanes nor they were always on schedule when developing new programs.

Wonder how Airbus got 50% market share.

Or maybe that's just about Airbus being on the "evil" side...



Never trust the obvious
25 DrExotica : This is quite true from my experience (commercial software development). It is the rule that software is shipped with numerous known bugs - these num
26 BoomBoom : Boy, that's a stretch. Talk about imature... Apparently the airlines which placed 420 orders and commitments for the 787, of which 377 are firm order
27 Aither : That's very good but not so impressive : - Considering the small widebody market size considerably larger than 20 or 10 years ago. - Considering that
28 Post contains images Stitch : Well Boeing's projected market for the VLA (to say nothing of the A380 within that market) is much smaller than that for small widebodies and the 787
29 BoomBoom : They don't have 50% of the widebody market. And where does this leave Airbus?[Edited 2006-08-25 20:14:06]
30 A342 : There's a mistake in the article: EA is not only owned by GE and P&W, but also by MTU. Maybe there are other partners as well. The fact that this is o
31 Post contains images Glideslope : Considering that Airbus has not been able to design a successful airframe since the A320, I'd wager sales are an added perk these days.
32 DfwRevolution : I'll take issue with that. In what regard was the A330 not successful? But not to the extent recently displayed by Airbus. Boeing didn't leave custom
33 Post contains links and images WingedMigrator : See www.igg.fr for latest status. The August convoy that was cancelled was a partial convoy, with just an aft fuselage section. I don't recall gettin
34 N1786b : Didn't FI say that they were sending up to 1000 Airbus Deutschland employees and that the A380 teams would work through the month of August? That's f
35 Texfly101 : Its always disheartening to me that any thread that has any news regarding A or B always degenerates into the A vs B flame war. Everyone here who seem
36 NYC777 : Does this come in English. I think I have to register to see what's going on?
37 Post contains links Leelaw : Airbus adds 1,200 staff to A380 assembly line ...Technicians are working flat out through France's traditional August break on the already assembled
38 WingedMigrator : Non... but no surprise here, since this site is for the folks living near the convoy route, who need to find out about local road closures. You can r
39 Stitch : Of that I do not doubt, but they probably lack context. They know what they see on the shop floor, but they may not know why they're seeing it. For e
40 RedFlyer : Yes, you're right. Thanks to Leelaw, I went back to that thread and read some of the replies. You didn't get a "spanking", but there's no denying tha
41 NYC777 : Which was that thread?
42 Post contains links Leelaw : A380 Production Problems? (by WingedMigrator May 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)
43 NYC777 : Thanks, I still remember some of my high school French. Did you first find out about the delays in April or March? I think you posted something about
44 Post contains images Keesje : It was a great day for the A380 project. A380 this morning after first succesfull General Electric / Pratt & Whitney powered flight I expect two more
45 Post contains images Leelaw : It's a shame that the worldwide media conspiracy against the A380/A350/Airbus orchestrated by one R. Baseler, didn't have the good taste to remain si
46 Post contains images Halibut : Even the Pickle threads Keesje ? Halibut
47 Post contains images Nitrohelper : Is there a list of the revised dates for all the current (15?) WhaleJets to start flying ? Any guess for a date when the first 20 will all be in reven
48 BoomBoom : You were polite enough not to name names. But suffice to say it was the usual know-it alls.
49 Post contains links Leelaw : No, but on 19 June, Flight International attempted a full breakdown of A380 aircraft currently in production at the time final assembly was suspended
50 Post contains images Glideslope : Thanks for the update. Looks like early 07 will be our next news flash?
51 Nitrohelper : Thanks for the link, and other info. But 48 units a year, maybe that's a typo? Could it be 4-8 per year instead? Building one a week will require a l
52 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Just in case you haven't realized yet - the A330 followed AFTER the A320. PH
53 RedFlyer : 48 units a year sounds about right. I remember reading about Airbus' planned production schedule prior to the last announced delay and their plan was
54 JayinKitsap : If Airbus has the problems resolved and gets the new wiring harnesses, revised parts, etc. it would seem that the staffing sufficient to build 3 plane
55 Post contains images Keesje : No doubt some heros here will come up with rumors / question marks to suggest trouble a few dozen times before that Glideslope another update: those
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