Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Judge Blocks FA Chaos Campaign!  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

Just heard on CNBC...more news undoubtedly to follow.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

wow no suprise there.

User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Channel 4 in Detroit now reporting as well


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5521 times:

Here's a report from the Detroit Scab Press:

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060825/NEWS99/60825018



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

And from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/636013.html



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3144 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Courtesy: WDIV-TV

Judge Blocks NWA Flight Attendants From Strike

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/9738020/detail.html


User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

If NWA can impose a contract, the F/A's can strike. This is total BS.


Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 13 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Booo...I was hoping to watch the stupidity through to its logical end.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

A federal judge blocked Northwest Airlines flight attendants from going on strike Friday, handing a victory to the cash-strapped airline.

U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero said he will issue an injunction that allows time for him to examine the case. He said Northwest Airlines Corp. made a “persuasive case” that a delay in any strike was necessary so that the legal issues could be
resolved.

He said that while the injury to flight attendants would be to delay their ability to strike, “far greater injuries exist to Northwest and the public by permitting the strike to commence at this point.”

Northwest, already operating under bankruptcy protection, has said a strike could kill it. It is Michigan’s largest passenger air carrier.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...icle?AID=/20060825/NEWS99/60825018


User currently offlineNuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

now this is funny
t4
http://www.nwaafa.org/


User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 6):
If NWA can impose a contract, the F/A's can strike. This is total BS.

Agreed, this is a sad day for labor. The consequences will have a ripple effect to negotiations at other airlines...


User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 9):
now this is funny
t4
http://www.nwaafa.org/

This is exactly the kind of performance that keeps me from giving most unions any respect. It is a perfect example of group behaviour; people doing something as a group they would never contemplate as an individual. Childish, unprofessional and superficial.


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 10):
Agreed, this is a sad day for labor. The consequences will have a ripple effect to negotiations at other airlines...

Maybe a sad day for labor but a happy day for the customers who won't get screwed by them.


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 6):
If NWA can impose a contract, the F/A's can strike. This is total BS.

Agreed. Right now it sounds like a temporary injunction while the legal issues are worked out since this is uncharted territory. If a strike is ruled to be illegal, then the imposed contract should be illegal as well, and the old contract reinstated.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 6):
This is total BS.

No, it isn't BS. Times are hard for a company that is 80 years old. Every effort must be made by the management team to pull the company through these hard times to protect the jobs of all the employees who want to work there.

If the flight attendants think they are so irreplacable and their skills are so valuable in the world, I'm sure another company would be glad to put their skills to work for them. When times are hard for the company and you don't like what they have to offer you, you move on. You say thanks but no thanks and you think you'll move on to a company that can pay you what you deserve.

Head over to any company and say "Look I can serve meals and drinks, count heads and manage paperwork, I can save lives if needed and I can travel and work flexible schedules including nights, holidays and weekends" then you ask "how much is that worth to you?" You might not like what they have to say but if you do take the job. If you dont like what they say take what your current company has to offer you for now so that you are employed and look for work elsewhere.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 12):
Maybe a sad day for labor but a happy day for the customers who won't get screwed by them.

What about those same customers who want the law to be upheld.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 12):
but a happy day for the customers who won't get screwed by them.

Not really.
Tomorrow and especially Monday, the "I'm sick" calls should start hot and
heavy.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 14):
No, it isn't BS. Times are hard for a company that is 80 years old. Every effort must be made by the management team to pull the company through these hard times to protect the jobs of all the employees who want to work there.

When I made the comment I didn't have anything in mind except the law. The airline was allowed to impose it's own contract, which is against the RLA, but when the F/A's want to strike because of that (also against the RLA), it is ruled illegal (for now at least.)

The law should be upheld equally for all parties, which right now, it isn't.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 15):
What about those same customers who want the law to be upheld.

Caveat Emptor.


User currently offline1rocco From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Lets not forget this is far from over!!! The judge still hasn't ruled yet. It took Judge Gropper a few days for his decision. There is still a higher court to rule.. Keep your chins up NWA f/a's..

User currently offlineKabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

They may not be going "on strike" but I'd hate to be a NW customer the next few days. I doubt there will be too many happy peppy FA's and I wouldn't be surprised to see service levels go down. Or as someone else suggested, sick calls may start pouring in. Hard to "prove" someone wasn't sick. Though I think if that happens the FA's will hurt their own case - the judge will see that action and have very little desire to allow them to strike later on. IMHO.


wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5343 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 6):
If NWA can impose a contract, the F/A's can strike. This is total BS.

How interesting that you know more about the Railway Labor Act than a United States District Judge. Frankly, it is an interesting legal question as to how the Railway Labor Act interfaces with the Bankruptcy Act in this circumstance, which is what the judge must decide. Personally, I would be interested to see the parties' briefs on the subject.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 5150 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Booo...I was hoping to watch the stupidity through to its logical end.

It is always instructive to see how many here on airliners.net take such pleasure in seeing the average airline employee shafted.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
“far greater injuries exist to Northwest and the public by permitting the strike to commence at this point.”

This statement by the judge, in my opinion, didn’t make any sense. Isn’t that the whole point of a strike?


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17825 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 11 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
It is always instructive to see how many here on airliners.net take such pleasure in seeing the average airline employee shafted.

When said employee thinks that by shafting the customer, they'll somehow improve their lot, then yes, it's nice to see karma come back around.

Moreover it's tough to sympathize with flight crews when you're an ivy league grad making less money than entry level flight attendants at a low cost carrier, yet working twice the hours. But I stayed at the job because I loved it, not because some union felt I deserved a lifetime appointment.



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Post contains links Piercey : AFA press release: http://www.nwaafa.org/aefiles/nwa%20temp%20appeal%20injunction.pdf nothing new, really...
26 Dc10s4ever : This is total bull crap. Makes the whole point to a union meaningless. If I were the FA's at NW, I would tell the judge to pound sand, walk out irrega
27 Socal : Am the President IBPO Local 572 and I know if you go too far with an issue, it will ultimately hurt the union members in the long run. How smart is it
28 KabAir : And you wonder why many people on this board have a dim view of FA's.....
29 MaverickM11 : It's because they can't seem to understand something as crystal clear, obvious, and self evident as this:
30 Tys777 : “Management and the courts can stall us, but they cannot defeat us," said Mollie Reiley, Interim Master Executive Council President. “Our crusade
31 Post contains links TVNWZ : Here is the union propaganda... NORTHWEST FLIGHT ATTENDANTS STRIKE TEMPORARILY BLOCKED New York, NY - A United States district court judge today tempo
32 Post contains links MrSTL : American Airlines unions side with Northwest flight attendants Friday August 25, 5:41 pm ET The three unions at American Airlines say they support Nor
33 Khobar : I don't think most customers have much sympathy for those who bite the hand that feeds them, but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are referring to
34 Sinlock : I'm sure the that the mechanics at NK would disagree with that statement. They received two weeks notice that their pay rates would be cut 20% and an
35 Ikramerica : This is the most common reason for a TEMPORARY injunction such as this. People spouting off about the law and such need to step back and look at the
36 TVNWZ : I would too. Put NW out of business increases the AA union's chances of getting raises and keeping the airline profitable.. You strike NW FA's! The F
37 Post contains links Mariner : It all comes home to bad management. They're the ones shafting the customer by providing appalling labor relations. In review: NWA benefits from mass
38 Wjcandee : Or for what the AFA is claiming, either. That's why it's an interesting legal question.
39 PlanesNTrains : Great post! Cuts through the crap and puts it in perspective. And isn't that the point of the injunction? Not to rule that the strike is illegal, but
40 MaverickM11 : I'm all for the employees striking. I've been waiting for one of the unions to actually make good on their strike promise since US went into bankrupt
41 Wjcandee : You know, this is the kind of reporting that should make the media embarrassed. But it doesn't: From the Reuters story cited above: "The AFA had threa
42 Mariner : Why have you been waiting for a strike if you don't know what a strike will achieve? You just want a strike for - the heck of it? In simple terms, a
43 PlanesNTrains : I think his point - and I might be mistaken - was "Hey, if you say you are gonna strike, then strike." I guess he wants to see them follow through on
44 Post contains images MaverickM11 : The unions think it's a solution, so let's see it in play. Well let's find out already. Unions think that basic economics don't apply to them so I'm
45 TVNWZ : Good advice. And the NW flight attendants should follow it. Quit. Get another job.
46 HPRamper : NW management hasn't really given a crap about protecting jobs in a while. Why should that matter? They just wouldn't be getting paid for it, after t
47 Mariner : What union said that? It is a tactic, not a solution. I agree. But not with the threat of fines - or worse - hanging over their heads. You may prefer
48 ASFlyer : I think this is GREAT advice and they should all pack up what's left of their dignity and walk out of the job tomorrow. Just quit. That would be the
49 FCYTravis : Way to show your biases. The Railway Labor Act is clear. If a company imposes a contract on its employees against their will, the employees then have
50 ExFATboy : Nope, an FA is not just there for "safety", but to perform all the aspects of the job, which includes getting people glasses of water. If they don't
51 Gilligan : Ok, I need some help here. If the company is in BK, how does it have a profit? Doesn't it owe a zillion dollars to creditors? Shouldn't the judge be
52 PlanesNTrains : I have mixed feelings about Unions, but I don't agree with or understand the attitude of "You don't like it? Then get out!". While an option, is that
53 MaverickM11 : You can't possibly be that naive.
54 Khobar : It will matter because there are usually only a limited number of sick days that can be taken without a doctor's note. If someone keeps calling in si
55 Wjcandee : As to the first sentence: give me a break. It was a balanced, truthful presentation. As to the rest, that's the argument on one side. The other side
56 Mariner : Ahhhhh, the flip one liner. Okay, what union has said that basic economics do not apply to them? And, since I am unclear as to what it is I am being
57 TWFirst : Unions became meaningless a few decades ago.
58 AirRyan : So riddle me this - if for example a vast majority of FA's called in sick this weekend they would somehow be breaking the law? Capitalism folks, WTF d
59 MaverickM11 : Are you kidding me with this?? What union wants market wages for its employees? If it's not a solution, nor a step towards a solution, then what is i
60 N908AW : There's a difference between what is law and what is complete BS. (see also: Wright Amendment)
61 Post contains images YYZatcboy : A Tactic... From the Dictionary... tac·tic (tktk) n. An expedient for achieving a goal; a maneuver. It's a means to an end. The union wants good pay
62 Mariner : Any union. All unions. The airline unions have given back what management has demanded. In the US airline industry in the last four years - despite r
63 Swaguy27 : IT is amazing to me how many of u guys r so hard core regarding flight attedant and how easy it is to replace them. If you;re boss came to u're desk n
64 HPRamper : Do you not believe any number of doctors will write up a note for just such a purpose?
65 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Thanks for repeating me . So explain to me how striking at a bankrupt, broke company will gain you better pay? That's what you call market wages? Uni
66 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Depending on the program, it takes five weeks to replace on That's happened at the headquarters of just about every airline in the industry. And the
67 Wjcandee : Quite simply, yes. If the flight attendants at NW are really, truly, so incredibly pissed off by this contract that was imposed on them that they wou
68 Mariner : No, I think that in manjy cases it might be called below market wages. That has already been explained to you - see post #42. mariner
69 Wjcandee : That's happened at the dot.com companies, the biotech companies, the auto industry, Enron, restaurant companies, retail companies, etc. Indeed, many
70 TVNWZ : What I am saying is if things are so bad and going along with two tenative agreements negotiated by two duly appointed bargining committees of two..n
71 Post contains links Mariner : There were no unions at other airlines to help those poor souls? So - who are these people? http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2006/08/21/dail
72 MaverickM11 : Such as? NW management has suggested they a) have contingency plans to fly a full schedule in the event of a strike and b) will tell, not ask, the un
73 Post contains images MaverickM11 : How many of those union members would work at airline headquarters?
74 SHUPirate1 : That's a lie...they totally care about protecting management jobs at higher pay. It's the rank-and-file jobs they don't care about, and they want to
75 Mariner : Management has said the same about strikes throughout history - and much bloodier, more confrontational events than are being discussed here. And yet
76 Style : WRONG.......Hard times were created by management itself. If oil is where it is, you adjust, if competition is out there, you adjust. Dont come back
77 PlanesNTrains : Easier said than done for many. If you're struggling (i.e. mortgage, college, debt, food, fuel, insurance, etc. etc. etc.), walking away from a job m
78 Yellowstone : Unions understand basic economics completely. Monopolies and oligopolies are part of econ, to be sure. The airlines form something of an oligopoly, s
79 Wukka : I think that it started back in '86 when Northwest dropped the "Orient" part of their name. At the same time (within months, actually), there was a gr
80 Wukka : There's no conclusive proof that it did. It's a great legend, though. Which was a roll of the dice, and there's nothing that definitively proves that
81 Mariner : No, sorry, I am using a metaphor. mariner
82 Post contains images DTW757 : PlanesNTrains, I didn't want to copy your entire post but I couldn't have said it better myself. Style quoted me as being WRONG in his post and you t
83 Bennett123 : Wjcandee 35% unemployed? Yellowstone Surely the main point of the suspension is that it allows the company time to figure how the strike can be broken
84 1rocco : why do you keep puking the same crap about union shopping. Did you work for PFAA and now bitter cause we voted your useless asses out. Listen one mor
85 Bobnwa : Why do you think the FA's deserve less a percentage cut than all other employee groups including management, have already taken. While the cuts are s
86 AirRyan : Bullshat! This is America and while they may very well lose their job and the judge can call it whatever the phuck they, our slimy justices in the St
87 MaverickM11 : If the airlines were price-makers rather than price takers, I'd believe that, but they aren't, and when you throw in the non-union airlines, you have
88 Post contains images Slider : Yeah, no kidding! I laughed my butt off reading that. Poor Mollie. Ooooh, it's TRADEMARKED!! Well, duh. Of course they do! AA FA to NW FA: "Solidarit
89 Bennett123 : San Jacinto was one of the decisive battles of the world. It sounds like rather a large claim. Are they saying that the USA would not extend west of T
90 Style : You call Steenland and his leadership strong? There cant be a better example of a worse management team in the airline business today. Yes, thats rig
91 TVNWZ : They are even more fearful since only one in four flight attendants actually turned down the last tenative agreement. When Union #2 could only muster
92 Post contains links Wjcandee : Absolutely. Remember that the "unemployment rate" covers only those who are actively seeking employment. If people get so frustrated by the lack of j
93 APFPilot1985 : You can speak for yourself, however I am sure that the Pilots would disagree. Or even better you guys think you have it bad, go to UAL or US or Delta
94 MaverickM11 : What???? They weren't the ones that dreamt up the nonsense "parity plus" schemes.
95 TVNWZ : This is one item that gets overlooked in "NW management sucks" discussion. Northwest did not take the easy way out and jetison their pension plans li
96 AirTranTUS : Like you said, it's all about cycles, then things must be adjusted for. Wages at many airlines were increasing rampantly throughout the 90's, but the
97 Mariner : That's right. That's the point. They lost the battle but won the war. It is a wonderful analogy for standing up for something in which you believe. m
98 APFPilot1985 : Why should something like that get in the way of an overpaid easily replaceable person asking for more money.
99 Post contains images CO767FA : You are so right....the "times" for employees are a cake walk! Throw the bums out! They don't have to worry about bottomlines or stockholders or othe
100 Post contains images DTW757 : I never said throw them out.....I said.....If they dont like what is being offered to them head down the street and see how much their skills will ma
101 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Better yet, why don't I get a union to DEMAND that I'm treated above average even though I'm no better than average . Twice the hours ....how 'bout t
102 MaverickM11 : If only.... ...and the ease with which you are replaced is correlated to your market wage. In other words a flight attendant is very easily replaced,
103 N5716B : And this is the very attitude that has forced me, one of the members of that little, insignificant demographic known as those who finance their own t
104 Style : Very well said. Its amazing though how some people on this board think guys like Steenland and Tilton are gods gift to management and should be handi
105 APFPilot1985 : Really if that is so, what makes you think that they would want to come to a company with a hostile union. (hint:think pay)
106 Ikramerica : NW F/As are going to picket at LAX tomorrow. Is this not a strike? I assume it's just a picket but nobody is missing any work?
107 Style : The top management at NW isn't making peanuts like they're workforce is. Although they might not be making what executives at GE or Home Depot make,
108 Bennett123 : Wjcandee Much of the EU area seems surprisingly prosperous given the apparent level of unemployment.
109 TVNWZ : Clue us in. who would be your top five each for NW CEO, CFO, CMO? And I assume these 15 guys would take less money. Impress me with the list.
110 Bobnwa : I'll bet you never get a list!!
111 APFPilot1985 : That doesnt answer my question at all.
112 PlanesNTrains : Well, then maybe that's why they are decaying. Did I say that? Please don't put words in my mouth. I have no direct interest in the NW situation, and
113 TVNWZ : Still waiting.....top 5.....CEO....CFO......CMO.......
114 MaverickM11 : I think you'd get a longer list of people willingly signing up for a nude swim with a killer whale.
115 Style : You completely fail to see the point. Its a shame if you really think there arent people out there today that can do a better job than these guys are
116 APFPilot1985 : I actually doubt that there is anyone out there that would be willing to do the job at the same pay that Steenland is getting, and probably very few
117 TVNWZ : Oh, I see the point. It is made graphically here... And here...
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Judge: NW FA's Can NOT Strike posted Fri Sep 15 2006 17:54:39 by Mikey711MN
How Can Any Judge Step In Nwa / Fa's posted Thu Aug 31 2006 02:57:12 by Swaguy27
Judge Rules NWA FA's Have Right To Strike posted Thu Aug 17 2006 18:48:09 by Saabmeister
NWA FA's Getting Ready To Implement Chaos? posted Thu Jul 13 2006 16:03:47 by KL565
Judge Allows NW To Void FA Contract posted Fri Jun 30 2006 05:27:09 by FutureFO
UA FA's Vote For Chaos posted Thu Dec 30 2004 23:52:41 by UAL Bagsmasher
Republic Hosting FA Recruiting Stations Notice posted Fri Dec 1 2006 00:00:35 by KarlB737
U2 To Announce New FA Uniform posted Tue Nov 28 2006 17:12:52 by WexCan
Judge Gives NWA Executives Employment Security posted Tue Nov 21 2006 23:57:14 by KarlB737
NW's FA's Say No Merger Without A Contact For Them posted Tue Nov 21 2006 14:32:59 by MSPGUY