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Need Help Identifying Mystery DC-10 Out Of McGuire  
User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6949 times:

I'm usually pretty good figuring things out, but this one has me stumped. Right now on Flightaware at 02:25 EST, I'm tracking a flight with the with the radar ID TKS30. It's showing it as a DC-10 operated by "Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, Tanker (Canada) ". It departed out of McGuire AFB, flew north and has been flying in a holding pattern off the coast of Southern Maine for close to an hour now. Flight plan shows it returning to McGuire in an hour.... What is this flight?!? A Forest Fire Tanker?!?

What makes this flight even more bizarre is that President Bush is visiting Kennebunkport, Maine this weekend and this flight has been circling just a few miles south of the Bush family residence on Walker's Point. That airspace is restricted when the President is at the residence.

Can anybody tell me what the heck this flight is? And why would a civilian water-bomber be flying out of McGuire AFB and circling in the immediate vicinity of the Bush Family compound in Maine tonight? Perhaps this should be in Military? However, it's listing a civialian aircraft? What kind of operation is this? Help!

Flight Details...

Registered: Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre "Tanker" (Canada)

Aircraft t McDonnell Douglas DC-10 (tri-jet) (H/DC10/Q)
Origin t Mc Guire AFB (KWRI)
Destination t Mc Guire AFB (KWRI)
Route t PTPL4 MANTA V139 HTO J55 BOS ENE131051
D3+35 ENE131051 BOS J55 MANTA CYN
Date t Saturday, Aug 26, 2006
Duration t 2 hours 31 minutes

Departure:12:21AM EDT
Arrival: 02:52AM EDT
Speed: 306 kts
Altitude: 21000 feet




[Edited 2006-08-26 08:49:27]

[Edited 2006-08-26 08:50:28]

[Edited 2006-08-26 08:51:51]

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:00:59]

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:02:19]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6927 times:

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Thread starter):
Registered: Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre "Tanker" (Canada)

well, for one thing it isn't a civil craft, due to the fact of who it is registered to.

Maybe they are just doing a test run?
But then, Why are they doing the run in the US??



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

More like why are they doing it at 3am in the morning, circling directly over the Bush residence? A water-bomber just doesn't make sense.

Quoting Tys777 (Reply 1):
But then, Why are they doing the run in the US??


User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

if you look back at flight aware, it was already supposed to have been back but is now only halfway through its flight, so no matter what is going on, someone decided to double the length of this flight.


It also doesnt appear to be above the bush residence, just off the coast, I doubt that really makes much of a difference though



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Quoting Tys777 (Reply 3):
also doesnt appear to be above the bush residence, just off the coast, I doubt that really makes much of a difference though

The Bush residence is located on the cove that is directly under the northeast corner of where this flight is circling. On a side note, there have been jets orbiting Southern Maine 24hrs a day since the President arrived yesterday morning. They aren't showing up on the flight trackers, but I'm watching these jets flying over my house every ten minutes in a clockwise direction at high altitude, FL250+. Since they aren't showing up on the flight trackers, they can only be military aircraft. I'm presuming some sort of fighter aircraft patrolling the airspace within a 50 or 100 mile radius of the Bush residence. I didn't know that the airspace was patrolled above the family compound when Bush is in town, but what else could this be? And why are they using a fire-bomber?!?

[Edited 2006-08-26 09:35:00]

User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6881 times:

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 4):
I didn't know that the airspace was patrolled above the family compound when Bush is in town

It's possible that with all of the threats on the planes recently maybe someone mentioned that Bush was a target and they beefed up the patrols to be safe.

But that still leaves us with the question of Why a tanker??



Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):


I had thought of that, however military flights are not displayed on commercial flight trackers such as Flightaware.com. It makes sense that it would be a re-fueling tanker if there are fighters patrolling the airspace around the Bush residence, but why would a military aircraft be displayed on a civil flight tracker? And how would that be connected to
"Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre"

[Edited 2006-08-26 10:56:57]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

 checkmark 

PotUs is at the Maine White House . . . that's the tanker for his CAP.


User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
that's the tanker for his CAP.


Excuse my ignorance, but what does CAP stand for?

[Edited 2006-08-26 11:04:54]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 9):
Excuse my ignorance, but what does CAP stand for?

Combat Air Patrol. In that area it could be MAANG F-15s out of Otis ANGB, MA, or VTANG F-16s operating out of BGR.


User currently offlineElcableguy77 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 523 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

I have occasionally seen military flights tracked on FlightAware, though it is a rarity. Every once in a while, I'll see an F/A-18 headed to or from Oceana NAS show up there.

It's very possible that a USAF KC-10 from McGuire could be using the same callsign as the tankers from Canada do, that way ATC knows what sort of aircraft is flying around out there so as to account for wake turbulence and things like that.



Former ZW F/A | "Wisconsin 72A, contact departure, see ya."
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6699 times:

I'd buy into the aerial refueling angle. Seems plausible, because KC-10s are based down at McGuire. This wouldn't be the first time that FlightAware mis-identified a flight. But the type of plane and the kind of circular,repeating route leads one to believe that it's a refueling tanker. The Canadian thing is a mistake, IMO.

My folks live on Goose Rocks Beach, which is (as the crow flies) about 60 seconds by air north of Walker's Point. Stories abound. My mom and dad live on a private end of a nice beach up there, and one afternoon my mom saw a car pull up and stop in front of their house. Two guys got out and they were getting ready to walk onto the beach. My mom and dad are always on the watch for people and cars that 'shouldn't be there,' so my mom went over to the men and said, in a kind voice, 'I'm sorry...this is a private road. You can't park here,'

One of the men, without missing a beat, unbuttoned his coat and flashed a SS badge. 'Oh, I think we can,' he replied. 'PotUS' was fishing for Blues in front of the house and these two were with binoculars to keep an eye out for him.

Yesterday and (thus far) today it's overcast down here in southern NH. I suspect that if it is up there as well, any neat orbiting planes can only be heard, not seen. I'll check with my dad, though. I already sent him the link to this thread.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6596 times:

Taken from the CIFFC website:

Quote:
The national air tanker fleet consists of 13 Canadair CL-215s which are operated by the provinces on behalf of the country as a whole. These aircraft are among the the 29 CL-215s purchased by six provinces and the federal government under a Cooperative Supply Agreement signed in the mid-1980s. Now over fifty CL-215/415 aircraft along with numerous land-based air tankers operate in Canada. The CL215/415 is the number one resource request and has contributed to the overall fire suppression capability in initial attack and ground support.

No mention of having any DC/KC-10s in the fleet.

http://www.ciffc.ca/cif.shtml



Delete this User
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
that's the tanker for his CAP.

Yea, but a Canadian one?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 14):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

True, The NHANG flys KC-135Rs out of PSM, but the refueling taskingings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 14):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Are we sure this is not a KC-10? They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

They use 135's thou

True, The NHANG flys KC-135Rs out of PSM, but the refueling taskings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.


User currently offlineWoosie From United States of America, joined May 2006, 115 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Thread starter):
It's showing it as a DC-10 operated by "Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre, Tanker (Canada) ". It departed out of McGuire AFB, flew north and has been flying in a holding pattern off the coast of Southern Maine for close to an hour now. Flight plan shows it returning to McGuire in an hour.... What is this flight?!? A Forest Fire Tanker?!?

Yup, it's a fire retardant/water drop airplane.

How do I know? I sit & work near the guy who helped write the Maintenance Planning Documents for that airplane.
Big version: Width: 750 Height: 563 File size: 23kb


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12158 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Quoting Woosie (Reply 17):
Yup, it's a fire retardant/water drop airplane.

How do I know? I sit & work near the guy who helped write the Maintenance Planning Documents for that airplane.

So was this simply a training mission for the DC-10 water tanker? I would be surprized this was allowed in the area off the Maine and New Hampshire coast with President Bush at Walkers Point.


User currently offlineOnetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
They are holding in AR track 616A, that is an air refueling track just off the coast for Pease ANGB.

You are correct, sir. This is a refueling operation.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
but the refueling taskings could be given to any USAF/ANG/USAFR tanker unit. There are KC-10As based at WRI.

Ohhhhh ok. Thanks for clearing that up.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4075 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

Maybe they are secretly planning to dump water on Bush, to prove once and for all he is washed up.

User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4069 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4705 times:
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The Canadian registration is either a flightaware snafu, or the US military using a foreign civilian call sign to disguise itself, both of which have happened, although most uses of a "decoy" call signs seem to have occured on CIA rendition flights to/from foreign countries.


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
Maybe they are secretly planning to dump water on Bush, to prove once and for all he is washed up.

News item: "In the same way that the Wicked Witch of the West was 'melted' by Dorothy, a Canadian DC-10 water tanker sent Cindy Sheehan to the Land of Oz with one well-placed water dump. Another wicked witch bites the dust. This is PMSNBC reporting."

Chris in NH


User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

It's those Canadian terrorists planning a Molsen Drop on Potus at his dad's place. The reason for the extended orbit prior to the drop is to allow the foam to settle. Once it does....Look Out!!!!

25 Post contains images HPRamper :
26 Theiler : I'll bet the call sign was inadvertantly mis-coded in the FAA system... The tankers up here doing AR for the CAP were using "TankerXX" call-signs. Per
27 SWAOPSusafATC : Sounds like Base ops entered the wrong callsign for the aircraft. This can happen once in a while. I work at McGuire Rapcon and have never seen this c
28 Bond007 : Yes, this is what happened. They did file as TKR30, but shouldn't have done! The FAA code for airline/callsign TKR is in fact "CANADIAN INTERAGENCY F
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