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Air France To Upgrade JNB - BA To Upgrade CPT  
User currently onlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Air France will upgrade its current 10 weekly flights between CDG and JNB to 12x weekly. Two additional weekly flights will be added from October 28th.

The Paris based airline will also change its equipment on the route. The route will change to Daily 777-300ER and 5x weekly A340-300  

SAA currently operates a daily A340-200 service from JNB  


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Will be a shame to see the AF 744's go from JNB  

Will we ever see direct CPT-CDG links in the near future from AF?

Are any new AF long haul routes in the vision for the near future?

Rob!   

[Edited 2006-08-26 18:18:09]

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8733 times:

British Airways will also introduce a 2nd Daily LHR-CPT flight during the Southern Summer. (European Winter)

Flights will operate from October round to March and will be operated by the four class 747-400!

SAA will continue to operate a Daily A340-600 on the CPT-LHR route  Smile

Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?


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Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
The Paris based airline will also change its equipment on the route. The route will change to Daily 777-300ER and 5x weekly A340-300

The equipment change from B744 to B77W is necessary because Air France wants to keep offering First Class on the route. The last two non-reconfigured B744s, with 13 F seats, and which are now mostly deployed on the JNB route, will soon be converted to freighters, so the only option for AF to retain L'Espace Premiere to JNB is by changing the route to a triple seven, the only remaining aircraft in the fleet with an F-cabin.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8490 times:

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Will we ever see direct CPT-CDG links in the near future from AF?

Not for the time being. KLM is taking care of CPT with great success. The airline operates a daily AMS-CPT nonstop with B772ER and the schedule is currently reduced to four weekly in summer between April and July and five weekly between August and October.

However, some changes are being planned to the AMS-CPT route, which might see the B744 full pax version deployed daily in winter. Also, KLM plans to operate the CPT service daily next summer, making it a year round daily service. Summer services would be operated with the B772ER.

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Are any new AF long haul routes in the vision for the near future?

As far as I know, Air France is looking at an additional destination in North America as well as one more destination in Brasil. Also, Air France will start thrice weekly to Chennai (MAA) next winter, and flights to Kuala Lumpur are at least being studied.


User currently offlineDernierVirage From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2006, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8443 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The equipment change from B744 to B77W is necessary because Air France wants to keep offering First Class on the route.

It is interesting that the 5 x weekly flight to JNB is a 343, which only has J and Y class.

This is like the current situation to Hong Kong, where the daily flight (773) has 3 classes, but the extra 3 x weekly flight is on the A332, only J and Y. However, I believe that the HKG flights will all be changes later this year to new style 772s, with 3 classes.

I in fact prefer to always have the same cabins on all flights to the same destination, maybe this will also become the case for JNB.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 4):
It is interesting that the 5 x weekly flight to JNB is a 343, which only has J and Y class.

There are other stations which receive both 2-class and 3-class aircraft: YUL, JFK, GRU, HKG, NRT, LFW and maybe some others. It is likely that there is no demand for twice daily F cabins at JNB.

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 4):
This is like the current situation to Hong Kong, where the daily flight (773) has 3 classes, but the extra 3 x weekly flight is on the A332, only J and Y. However, I believe that the HKG flights will all be changes later this year to new style 772s, with 3 classes.

All ten flights will operate with B772ER next winter, which is a downgrade for the daily flight from the current B77W but an upgrade for the additional thrice weekly flight from the current A332. The daily double overnight flight AF188/185 will operate with the new cabins from the onset of the winter timetable, while the additional thrice weekly service will initially still operate with the old configuration, before receiving a retrofitted aircraft later in the winter.


User currently offlineDernierVirage From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2006, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

Thank you for the information, as usual very clear and useful.

As regards HKG, I in fact will be happier with the 772, since the F cabin will reduce to only 4 seats (compared to 8 in the 77W), therefore even more quiet and calm.


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

Pretty doubtful in my eyes. This would be a great route for the 787 I believe, but neither BA nor SAA have ordered any, so that's sort of a moot point.

There are enough connection possibilities on both South African and British Airways (via Comair) to make Durban pretty easy to get to from the UK without the need for a nonstop.


User currently offlineRichie87 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

Interesting post. I'm going with BA from SEA to LHR then on to CPT in January of 2007... they have good connections, and also plan on staying one day in London on the return. Anybody done this route with BA before? We depart from JNB on return and one of the reasons I liked BA is BECAUSE they have two scheduled daily departures from either end... unless something were to go "slightly wrong" with the trip.

South Africa has become an enormously popular tourist/safari destination along with business travel.... and I note that some North American carriers are trying to get into the act as well; notably Delta...

Cheers, all...


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8626 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
Anybody done this route with BA before?

Check the trip reports. I believe there are some from London- to S. Africa.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7475 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

BA used to serve both Durban and Gaborone via Johannesburg, but these tag ons have been given up since the 90s, and I doubt we'll see any of those destinations back in the near future. BA is serving a lot of domestic and regional destinations through its Comair franchise and that system seems to be working well for them.


User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6511 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
British Airways will also introduce a 2nd Daily LHR-CPT flight during the Southern Summer. (European Winter)

Flights will operate from October round to March and will be operated by the four class 747-400!

They operated this flight last Southern Summer with a B744. One flight is a morning departure back to LHR and the other the traditional evening departure. I rode the morning flight last Christmas and all the flights to and from CPT were packed.



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

Sorry to mix the Airlines/Destinations up bit, but does anyone in Comair/BA know how their new JNB-MRU flights are selling? There not particularly cheap, but may include them in a RTW.

Apologies again and thanks.


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1669 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6208 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
and flights to Kuala Lumpur are at least being studied.

Thought KUL was KLM territory; surprising move that would be !



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Quoting MH017 (Reply 13):
Thought KUL was KLM territory; surprising move that would be !

An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.


User currently offlineSA006 From South Africa, joined Sep 2003, 1883 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6096 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Will we ever see direct Durban - London flights in the near future?

Not at the moment. Untill the new airport is built in Durban this is highly unlikely. I don't think the current airport in Durban can accomodate a fully loaded 747 due to runway length. But as mentioned , there are very good connections from DUR to JNB and onto London.

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Will be a shame to see the AF 744's go from JNB

Yes , will be a great shame. Have always enjoyed seeing AF bring their 744's down here. Although , the 77W will be a breath of fresh air  Smile. (Btw , thanks for plugging my pic in your post B742  Wink )

-SA006  wave 



Proudly South African
User currently offlineAT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Another B777-300ER operator to JNB. What a beauty.
Other 777 operators include:


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I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

Do RAM serve JNB?

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
. Anybody done this route with BA before?

Yes, I have twice. I didn't have the best experience, but normally BA is EXCELLENT.

The best connection for you though would be NW/KL SEA-AMS-CPT-AMS-SEA, it is a shorter connection on the way out.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13735 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

Quoting AT502B (Reply 16):


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Hmm, JNB should really be operated by a B772ER. How peculiar.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineEconojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5650 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.

Just curious, do you happen to have an approximate breakdown of the pax numbers on KL809/810 for KUL vs CGK?

Of the 4 stations you mentioned (how about CGK?), only KUL is currently exclusively KL territory. That could also be one of the reasons why it is KL's busiest?

Would a capacity increase to KUL be less pressing should CGK get some nonstop flights? Could KL consider re-linking SIN to CGK, and making KUL a turnaround? In any case, as you mentioned, I also believe that additional KUL capacity will come via adjustment to the KL/MH operations.

Meanwhile, MH seems also to be trying to work something out with AZ at FCO. Adding AF-operated flights to this mix anytime soon just seems to go against the streamlining that AF/KL have been striving for, even if MH is truly SkyTeam-bound. Is AF considering placing its code on MH's CDG flights (hopefully allowing a profitable daily operation)? I wonder how is the demand specifically ex-CDG for KUL and vv. ?


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

CPT has been on EI's radar for a while, but they went with Dubai as the new route this yr (although it was a March start for that route which wouldn't suit SA given the time of yr). They now don't have the aircraft available to serve it until their new aircraft arrive next summer, but look out for it being added for Winter 2007 if all goes well with the share sale next month.



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Will any European carriers add service to SA? Most majors serve us, but will AZ, OS, TK, SK, or someone else add service?

Alitalia: Possibly, but they are part of Skyteam, so connecting traffic can go via Paris or Amsterdam...a pain, yes, but it's a one stop, same alliance trip. But still possible to seem them in South Africa

Austrian: Less possible because of their connections with Lufthansa and South African via Star Alliance

Turkish: Possible, but remember that Kenya, I think, flies to Istanbul, making a one stop service from Turkey to South Africa possible. But then again, I am still shocked sometimes that Olympic flies to JNB, so you never know.

SAS: Again, same thing as Austrian, Star connections are pretty strong to South Africa.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Do RAM serve JNB?

Nope, the closest they fly is Cameroon if I remember correctly...so "close" isn't a good word at all!


User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

No news on MRU-JNB then? Have SA reacted?

User currently offlineOdiE From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
An Air France flight to KUL will not happen before the entry of MH into Skyteam, but the plans are definitely there. KUL is by now the busiest South East Asia station for KLM, busier than BKK, SIN and HKG, and additional capacity is necessary, though is likely to come from KL/MH first.

Isn't KL reducing its KUL/CGK frequency to 6 weekly this winter? If KUL is the busiest station in South East Asia, wouldn't it make more sense for them to downgrade other stations e.g. BKK, SIN, MNL or HKG?


User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
Interesting post. I'm going with BA from SEA to LHR then on to CPT in January of 2007... they have good connections, and also plan on staying one day in London on the return. Anybody done this route with BA before?

Yes. Well, not exactly, but close. I did SFO-LHR-CPT last March, and it was excellent. The earlier (4:30 PM) departure of BA43 LHR-CPT really cut the wait in LHR down to about 3 hrs. Far better than 7 hrs.

Quoting Richie87 (Reply 8):
We depart from JNB on return and one of the reasons I liked BA is BECAUSE they have two scheduled daily departures from either end... unless something were to go "slightly wrong" with the trip.

The only problem with this is collecting one's bags in JNB, clearing customs, then walking to the domestic terminal and re-checking. If you can, change you ticket to LHR-CPT non-stop. You'll be glad you did. I personally find transiting through JNB a hassle. At least I can check my bags through LHR.

Speaking of JNB, one reason I avoid SAA to/from the US is having to transit through JNB on my way to CPT. Any word on how to pressure SAA to bringing back CPT as a US gateway?



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
25 Post contains images SA006 : No. Quite right. Scheduled service is 772ER but occasionally we see the 777-300 from SQ. We'll shortly be adding Delta to that list by the look of th
26 AF022 : It is tough for European carriers to make money because the aircraft sits idle all day on the tarmac for overnight flights both ways. This is one of
27 AT502B : Sadly they switched the much anticipated flight to a B767-300ER. Maybe someday they'll upgrade it to a B777.
28 Horus : Egyptair are upgrading their CAI-JNB-CAI flights from 3 to 4x weekly A330-200 flights this winter. Minor correction, KQ's twice weekly IST flights rou
29 Post contains images Richie87 : I really DO appreciate the comments and suggestions that people made about the LHR to/from South Africa connections. The choice of BA over NW/KLM had
30 Post contains images SW733 : Oh ok, wasn't aware of that, thanks. I've only flown Kenya JNB-NBO-LHR and back. Sheesh, you moderator's are a pain in my butt pointing out my short
31 MH017 : Surprising to see KLM is reducing frequence from daily to 6x a week for the coming Winter season to KUL, or has this something to do with the 747 WBC
32 Post contains images Horus : Well someone has to do the deed SW733 Horus
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