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Delta's Preferred Engine Manufacturer?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

What are your thoughts on Delta's preferred engine manufacturer? This is a very tough call. The DC-8s, 727s, DC-9s, MD-80s, and 737-200s were all ordered with Pratt & Whitney engines, but there were no other options. The L-1011 was ordered with Rolls-Royce engines, but once again, there were no other options. Delta chose Pratt over RR for their 757s. For the non-ER 767s, Delta chose the GE CF6-80A. When Delta first ordered the 767-300ER, they switched to Pratt & Whitney engines, but then in 1998 switched back to GE with the CF6-80C2, which also powers their 767-400ER fleet. What I find rather strange is that Delta chose Rolls-Royce over GE or Pratt for their 777s, and the only Rolls-Royce-powered aircraft in the fleet were the L-1011s, which were exiting the fleet. When Delta orders the 777-200LR, GE will be the only option, and that could encourage Delta to order the 787 with GE engines as well, similar to Air Canada's order.

What are your thoughts on this?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts on this?

Um.. that they don't have a 'preferred' engine manufacturer?


User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

With the DIP financing provided by GE I think they might now have a preferred engine manufacturer.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 1):


User currently offlineCTHEWORLD From Mayotte, joined Dec 2004, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

i think their preferred engine manufacturer is anyone and everyone that has the right deal. Or maybe they are just going for the one of each approach.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2505 times:

All future DL widebody orders, where a GE option is available, will be GE engines.

Announcements will come later this year.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2473 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
When Delta orders the 777-200LR, GE will be the only option, and that could encourage Delta to order the 787 with GE engines as well, similar to Air Canada's order.

Keep in mind DL and AC might be in rival FF alliances (SkyTeam vs. Star) but they are very closely tight knit both financially (both are huge American Express users, and AmEx funds both their FF card SkyMiles and AeroPlan) and maintenance wise since AC does most of DL's major MX checks on all their 763s and 764s at the YVR AC/Tech service facility.
Rumor has it that AC wanted DL in Star years ago as alliances were started, because of their presence in the US southeast and eastern seaboard. But UA due to an intense west coast rivalry with DL vetoed such an idea.
Anyhow keep in mind that P&W/GE merged for the engine to power the A380 and could do similar projects for the 787 and future Airbus and Boeing airframes. RR is more popular amongst the Europeans. Pretty much you can count on alliances to dictate maintenance as more and more carriers look for efficiency and costs to streamline this work.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 5):
Rumor has it that AC wanted DL in Star years ago as alliances were started

Was it AC or Hollis Harris who wanted this?



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Quoting Papatango (Reply 2):
With the DIP financing provided by GE I think they might now have a preferred engine manufacturer.

I was going to say the same thing. PW was probably their manufacturer of choice before they got out of the commercial market. Now GE will get the orders going forward, not only because they make a kick ass engine, but also because of the underlying financing helping DL through the BK process.

On a side note you just have to love GE. What other company can you buy a toaster, jet engine, washing machine, and military weaponry from?



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineCf6ppe From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 7):
On a side note you just have to love GE. What other company can you buy a toaster, jet engine, washing machine, and military weaponry from?

Or to borrow funds for and/or lease just about anything - GE Capital


337Delta764, This topic of who is Delta's Preferred Engine Manufacturer? seems to have fetish value to you. Is that true....??

Having more than one engine manufacturer in an airlines inventory helps to insulate a carrier from all kinds of engine manufacturer issues.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

I believe all future orders will be for GE as others have said. It's strange that they didnt choose the P&W engine to power their 764ER.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCf6ppe From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 9):
I believe all future orders will be for GE as others have said. It's strange that they didnt choose the P&W engine to power their 764ER.

It appears that all of the 764ER's were delivered with GE CF6-80C2B7F powerplants.

Were the appropriate PW4000 powerplants offered for the 764ER by TBC...??


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

If I remeber correctly at the time of the add-on 763ER and 764 orders DL was not particularly happy with PW. The PW4000s were experiencing reliability issues. Also there was a huge issue with the PW2000s including serveral uncontained failures. Futher, DL had several 757s grounded do to unavailbility of working PW2000 powerplants.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6918 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 5):
RR is more popular amongst the Europeans.

I'm not sure the evidence supports this claim. Which type of plane are you thinking of? On the 777, for example, RR have gained just one European customer (BA) while GE have five. (Compare that with the USA where RR gained two customers to one for GE and one for PW). RR certainly wasn't "more popular" on the 747 in Europe. Only on the A330 might RR seem to have more popularity among Europeans. (Yes, RR was much more popular on the 757 in Europe but RR was more popular in general.)


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13126 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2121 times:
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Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 11):
If I remeber correctly at the time of the add-on 763ER and 764 orders DL was not particularly happy with PW. The PW4000s were experiencing reliability issues. Also there was a huge issue with the PW2000s including serveral uncontained failures. Futher, DL had several 757s grounded do to unavailbility of working PW2000 powerplants.

You're the first to get the jist of it correct. I don't recall the PW2000s uncontained failures...

But DL was very upset at Pratt due to the PW4000 and PW2000 reliability issues.

Then... Just as DL and Pratt were making up... Pratt goes off to their just in time inventory system... after DL had "leaned out" their Pratt part inventory. To say the least, DL wasn't happy that they had to ground aircraft due to a lack of engine spare parts. In fact DL played "passive agressive" with Pratt and purchased every single 94" engine casing in Pratt's inventory at one point. This was partially due to a service bulletin (DL was worried they wouldn't get enough alloted to them) and partly to make a point. I'm not sure if DL and Pratt ever "made up." (I left Pratt.) I do know that Pratt had to buy back a few of those casings at a profit (for DL). I do know that Pratt was shaken up when it was anounced that the president of DL in about 2000 (IIRC) told the president of Pratt that DL "would never buy Pratt again."  Sad But for all I know, that was a negotiating tactic. And its amazing how BK can change a corporations priorities...  Wink

DL is cash constrained right now and thus financing will effect purchase decisions. But is GE financing them? I thought it was Wells Fargo... Please clarify if I'm worng. But that doesn't matter if the 772LR is determined to be the "optimal fit" for the fleet.  Wink On the 787... who knows. Unless GE has a "hold" over DL that I don't know about... I would speculate that this engine order would be a brutal "knock down" cat fight (if DL orders the 787, of course).


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 7):
What other company can you buy a toaster, jet engine, washing machine, and military weaponry from?

Don't forget lightbulbs and X-ray equipment... Wink


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

It's when they start controlling the news you see on TV that a problem develops....


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 13):
You're the first to get the jist of it correct. I don't recall the PW2000s uncontained failures...

But DL was very upset at Pratt due to the PW4000 and PW2000 reliability issues.

GE also realized this and made DL a good offer. As to the failures, I saw the results of one of them come accoss my desk and the folks over in powerplant mtc were talking about the issues with what I believe were either the HPC or HPT.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2601 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1982 times:
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Well, I can certainly understand the decision to power the initial batch of 777's with RR's-------

The RR 211's did DL well on the L10's and as I recall the "high-time" record for an RR engine occured on a DL L10.
A friend I have over at the jet-base says DL was worn pretty thin over vibration issues with the Pratts on the MD-11's. They just would not hold up as well as the GE's on the 76 fleet.

DL has developed a longtime relationship with the folks at RR. So I can see GE or RR as the perferred engine choices for future aircraft. {two cents}



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
All future DL widebody orders, where a GE option is available, will be GE engines.

It's pretty fun how that works, GE capital bails airlines out, and it doesn't matter whose engines they flew before, they're all flying GE now. That's hard to beat.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 17):

DL has developed a longtime relationship with the folks at RR. So I can see GE or RR as the perferred engine choices for future aircraft. {two cents}

While Delta has selected RR for their 777-200ERs, that was at the time the most popular 777 engine option was RR. At the time Delta ordered their second batch of 767-300ERs (1998-present), RR was available as an option for the 767-300ER, but instead Delta went with GE. If Delta chose RR engines for the second batch of 767-300ERs, RR engines would have likely been offered on the 767-400ER as well. When Delta orders the 777-200LR, which is offered with GE engines exclusively, Delta could place their 787-3/787-8 order at the same time, and the wise decision in that case would be to choose GE engines, just like Air Canada did. I really think Delta's future 787 order leans in favor of GE, but we just have to wait and see.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
It's pretty fun how that works, GE capital bails airlines out, and it doesn't matter whose engines they flew before, they're all flying GE now. That's hard to beat.

Great way to build market share huh? Smile

Persoanlly, I prefer GE engines, but funny how they get them on the planes sometimes...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
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