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US Airways Original Airbus Order - Pre 9/11.  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3055 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 20 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Could someone please enlighten me on the original Airbus order US Airways placed before 9/11. If anyone has exact details of what the order contained and the exact number delivered that would be great...

If I remember correctly this order was was one of the largest orders Airbus ever received back then. Was the ultimate aim of the order to replace the whole of US Airways' mainline fleet exclusively with Airbus?

If the whole order had been fulfilled and US Airways had not faced Chapter 11 twice would we still see 737's, 757's and 767's in the fleet today? Would I be right in assuming the A321's were to replace the 752's, A320's the 734's and the A319's the 733's?

Please forget for one minute that the A321 can ever be a direct competitor to the 757 as is all to often discussed on here... But if this is the case that the A321's were to replace the 757's, how would have US Airways operated these out of destinations like LAS and PHX? I have read on here several times that the A321's would never be able to operate to CLT or PHL from these destinations due to the heat and how the A321 is too underpowered and the 757 is the only aircraft of this size capable of operating these routes, as they do at present.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 20 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
If the whole order had been fulfilled and US Airways had not faced Chapter 11 twice would we still see 737's, 757's and 767's in the fleet today? Would I be right in assuming the A321's were to replace the 752's, A320's the 734's and the A319's the 733's?

Correct. I'll have to go through my old US Airways archive and find out the exact number.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4616 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 18 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Could someone please enlighten me on the original Airbus order US Airways placed before 9/11. If anyone has exact details of what the order contained and the exact number delivered that would be great...

400 - Narrowbody Airbuses 319/320/321
30 - A330-300s

I can't remember the mix of orders/options off the top of my head.


User currently offlineSpoke2Spoke From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

30 A333 airframes? That's interesting. Even if the 762's are replaced, there are still about 10 net widebody airframes added. Did the pre 9/11 US have their eyes on South American routes with these aircraft? I can't imagine they could keep 30 busy over the atlantic alone, even with flights from PIT in addition to CLT and PHL. The A333 doesn't have the legs from the east cost to Asia.

Spokes



...carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. - Wilbur Wright
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

When were some of those 333s converted to 332s? Was that a first b/k change?


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 5601 times:

Quoting Spoke2Spoke (Reply 3):
The A333 doesn't have the legs from the east cost to Asia.

They also had an option to change some of those option's to A340's.

-SOAC

[Edited 2006-08-28 05:53:26]


Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineUsAirways16bwi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1004 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):

US flies A321/320/319 from CLT/PHL-west coast normally. Airbus is about the only planes they use for transcons.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 2):
400 - Narrowbody Airbuses 319/320/321
30 - A330-300s

I can't remember the mix of orders/options off the top of my head.

Around 150 were firm orders. The entire order, including options, was at the time in 1998 considered (IIRC) the largest order in history by any airline.

It shows the grand plan Wolfe and his #2, Gangalwal (sp?), had at the time for the carrier.

How times have changed.

[Edited 2006-08-28 06:23:18]


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

Would have been amazing to see 30 330's or even some 340's in US colors.

User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 830 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 5433 times:

If US Airways would've had 30 A330's the only place they would be right now is in the desert. (Not tryin to be mean)

User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Why did US choose the A333 over the 772? cost? timing?


-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4616 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 7):
It shows the grand plan Wolfe and his #2, Gangalwal (sp?), had at the time for the carrier.

Its Wolf...and Gangwal.  Smile

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 10):
Why did US choose the A333 over the 772? cost? timing?

Timing and price. Oh...and US Airways hated Boeing.


User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Timing and price. Oh...and US Airways hated Boeing.

Uhhh, ok. Meanwhile, does the A332 have the legs from CLT/PHL-Asia? could US switch some orders up?



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Its Wolf...and Gangwal.

I was close enough!  Wink

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Oh...and US Airways hated Boeing.

So why did US Airways hate Boeing? I thought their contract dispute emanated from the fact that Wolf saw more money savings in switching to Airbus given the price Airbus was willing to give them and simply wanted a way out of the Boeing contract for existing orders. Was there something else that poisoned the well?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4997 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 10):
Why did US choose the A333 over the 772? cost? timing?

US Airways doesn't do business with Boeing any more. They had a disagreement with beoing over this accident.

Until US decides otherwise or Boeing admits design failure of the 733, then US Airways will not buy a Boeing plane again.

cheers

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1920 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 2):
30 - A330-300s

To be accurate, the order, placed on Nov. 24, 1998, was for 7 A330-300s, plus 7 options and an additional 16 potential delivery positions.
3 options were converted into firm orders in 99.
On Apr. 01, 2003, 9 additional A330-200s were ordered.
Early 2005, 10 orders out of the 19 were differed and cancelled against the order for A350s.
US Aw. operates the 9 remaining A330-300s.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
Until US decides otherwise or Boeing admits design failure of the 733

What's there for Boeing to admit? It was already shown that the probable cause was a defective actuator, and ADs were issued subsequently requiring their replacement in all 73 classics.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineBdl2dca From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
Until US decides otherwise or Boeing admits design failure of the 733, then US Airways will not buy a Boeing plane again.

Seeing as the management in charge of US is now HP management, I doubt the crash will really weigh on their minds when the time comes to order more aircraft.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineRev3oh2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4786 times:
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Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
Until US decides otherwise or Boeing admits design failure of the 733, then US Airways will not buy a Boeing plane again.

That's an interesting explanation. Did anyone in top management under that regime at US Airways ever actually make such a statement in public? Or is it simply a deduction based on the facts? Not arguing, just wondering. I haven't checked, but is it true that US has not even acquired any other 757s since that particular crash? Or would leasing not count as buying under this scenario?

Quoting Bdl2dca (Reply 17):

Seeing as the management in charge of US is now HP management, I doubt the crash will really weigh on their minds when the time comes to order more aircraft.

That's the other part of this equation. But I seem to recall US saying when it made that huge Airbus order that it wanted to be able to get the best bang for their buck by having pilots trained on the A319/320/321 models due to cockpit commonality. And isn't HP also a large Airbus customer?

Also, given US Airways' somewhat limited international operations, and no expressed long-range goal calling for expanding those operations to Asia, would they really need to buy 777s or 787s anytime soon?



...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
They had a disagreement with beoing over this accident.

Oh, yeah... I remember that crash alright. Who wouldn't...

I remember hearing that the DL727 wake was the direct cause of the crash, but then years later, another plane, a metrojet 732 encountered similar problems near Baltimore(???) and the voice recording indicated rudder problems. That metrojet plane, however, landed safely, unlike the misfortunate outcome of US 427...

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
Until US decides otherwise or Boeing admits design failure of the 733



Quoting Rev3oh2 (Reply 18):
That's an interesting explanation. Did anyone in top management under that regime at US Airways ever actually make such a statement in public? Or is it simply a deduction based on the facts? Not arguing, just wondering. I haven't checked, but is it true that US has not even acquired any other 757s since that particular crash? Or would leasing not count as buying under this scenario?

The overall design of the 733 was not a flaw by anymeans if that's what you're getting at. Then again, after a similar incident occurred on another plane, they did come to that conclusion and I believe that all 737 aircraft were grounded until all aircraft were inspected and the problem rectified. Now, they're among the safest planes in the sky. If boeing still denies that the flaw even existed, I guess they really have their heads up their pie-holes.

That was 12 years ago; they have different aircraft now. Admit the design flaw, realize it, get over it, and move on...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4616 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
I remember hearing that the DL727 wake was the direct cause of the crash, but then years later, another plane, a metrojet 732 encountered similar problems near Baltimore(???) and the voice recording indicated rudder problems. That metrojet plane, however, landed safely, unlike the misfortunate outcome of US 427...

One of the Eastwind 737s had the same issue over North Carolina during the same time. I know they evaluated the UA crash in COS to see if that was related, but left that one alone.


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