FL370 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10880 times:
i thought i could start a new thread on this, the other one was getting a little too long. here's the thing, my dad works at UA, and he hasn't heard anything about UA and their plans for ordering the 787.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26964 posts, RR: 83 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10774 times:
If UA management has indeed committed to inking a deal, then I would think Boeing would be reporting 35 787 UFOs by now.
Also, if UA management is confident enough of the deal's firmness to leak the deal to Dc10s4ever, I would think it would have been leaked to Chicago and/or Seattle news sources.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8791 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10723 times:
Quoting FL370 (Thread starter): here's the thing, my dad works at UA, and he hasn't heard anything about UA and their plans for ordering the 787.
Well it depends on what your father does. Companies use to give information like this internally before they announced it, but that practice has pretty much gone away for all but internal matters. Too many people divulge information and investors can get misled. So I would expect a new order to definitely be kept within the divisions that are necessary for it to happen. We'll have to wait for an official press release, but rumors like this although unsubstantiated do sometimes come true.
On another note, I'm sure that some people in UA management know that there is buzz going on about the possibility of a 787 order.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10499 times:
Mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1296 posts, RR: 17 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10329 times:
They kept the KWI announcement quite. That city was not even rumored when it was announced so an airplane order could be out there. Also, TK is saying more -400 bids this month and next. Interesting in that we are not slated to get any additional 400's to need a bid and the attrition is very light in that fleet. Something is up but no one is talking. Tilton is good at playing his cards close to his vest.
NDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9842 times:
I certainly hope this is true, but count me in the skeptical crowd. If I remember right, didn't Tilton make a statement a few months ago that United won't be looking to officially purchase new airplanes for another year or two? Also, I'm sure they'll want to carefully evaluate the A350XWB as well.
Anyway, a 787 in the United livery would look great! And as long as we're dreaming, it would be great if they were the launch customer for the 747-8i and the 777-300ER wouldn't look too bad in their fleet either.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9830 times:
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3): I bet the whole thing is rubbish.
Why, It has been 5 years since UA ordered any aircraft. There fleet of 777 are new but there 767 fleet needs replacing. The 787 would be perfect.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
F14ATomcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 88 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9815 times:
Boeing doesn't list orders as UFOs until an actual order has been made.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21045 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9782 times:
Quoting Boston92 (Reply 6): There fleet of 777 are new but there 767 fleet needs replacing. The 787 would be perfect.
Exactly. The 788 would be the plane they need. The 350X is a different animal, and would be under consideration when it comes time to replace the 777s, not the 767s.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9761 times:
I have a feeling that once the 787 is out for a year or so, Boeing will orders galore. I don't know if I can say the same for Airbus and there A380.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9561 times:
How strong is the market for 744s to be converted to freighters? Is it strong enough that Boeing would be able to put together a deal with UA where UA gets the launch discounts on a few 748i's and a good deal on the 787s?
Outside of the potential for the 748i added under a very good deal to a 787 order I'm going to sit back, relax and wait to see if this week brings an order.
FL370 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 9482 times:
i recall that a few years back, UA had some really good connections with boeing. i think around the time the 777 was introduced. UA got all sorts of discounts from boeing
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21045 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9313 times:
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9230 times:
Quoting Boston92 (Reply 9): I have a feeling that once the 787 is out for a year or so, Boeing will orders galore. I don't know if I can say the same for Airbus and there A380.
As Ikramerica already said what does that have to do with the topic ?
Also the 787 and A380 are totally different airplanes with a whole different markets. If you have to compare Airbus and Boeing again for another time
you should have choosen the A350 instead of the A380.
You would not have compared the A330 with the 747-400 either, do you ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9166 times:
I hope the order is true but I will beleive it when I see it. What I do beleive though is that Boeing will be dangling a very juicy carrot to UA to go with the 747-8i as well.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4017 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7984 times:
Didn't Tilton say that UA wouldn't order any new airplanes until at least 2008? Or was that just for deliveries...
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7247 times:
I seriously doubt any more orders for the 787 are coming this year from US legacy carriers, they just dont have the financial strength to do it right now. One profitible qaurter does not an airline make.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26964 posts, RR: 83 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6801 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10): How strong is the market for 744s to be converted to freighters? Is it strong enough that Boeing would be able to put together a deal with UA where UA gets the launch discounts on a few 748i's and a good deal on the 787s?
Some of it would depend on how UA structured their flight crew pay rates. I know 744 flight crew make the same as 772 flight crew, but I don't know if the 748 (along with possibly the A380 and 773 just for completeness sake) were included, as well. If UA has to pay their 748 crew more, that is going to impact the financial's. Plus UA will have to take GE power on the 748 (which, admittedly, they will have to take on the 787's, as well in such a case), which also is going to add costs.
Quoting FL370 (Reply 11): i recall that a few years back, UA had some really good connections with Boeing. i think around the time the 777 was introduced. UA got all sorts of discounts from Boeing
Well UA used to be part of Boeing in the early 1900s. And UA was part of the "Working Together" team that helped develop the 777, as well as the launch operator (if not customer).
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 17): I seriously doubt any more orders for the 787 are coming this year from US legacy carriers, they just dont have the financial strength to do it right now. One profitable quarter does not an airline make.
I suppose if the rumor is true, it could hinge on how the deal is structured. If Boeing allows UA to apply the $65 million they have as "factory credit" (so a bit less then $2 million a frame), then there is no cash out of pocket up front. And if Boeing allows UA to defer the "progress payments" until the frames are actually laid down (in, say 2009,) and allows UA to cancel without penalty (or any additional penalty other then the $65 million) up to that time, then it really isn't costing UA anything to secure 35 slots. If their financial's support all 35 (or a lower amount) come 2009, they start making progress payments and all is good. If not, then they walk away from money that they couldn't use for general operating expenses, anyway.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6770 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 13): As Ikramerica already said what does that have to do with the topic ?
Also the 787 and A380 are totally different airplanes with a whole different markets. If you have to compare Airbus and Boeing again for another time
you should have choosen the A350 instead of the A380.
You would not have compared the A330 with the 747-400 either, do you ?
What? Calm down. Both are the two companies newest creations, and all I said was I think 787 will have more orders after it is out for a year or so.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
TAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1854 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6704 times:
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 17): I seriously doubt any more orders for the 787 are coming this year from US legacy carriers, they just dont have the financial strength to do it right now. One profitible qaurter does not an airline make.
Generally, I would agree 100% with you. Emember that NW & CO have orders in and they ARE legacy carriers.
The rock and hard spot that AA,UA & DL find themselves is if a few more significant sized orders from foreign carriers are placed, they will find themselves more years out than prudent planning would permit.
Thus, since AA & DL have the "gentlemens agreement", perhaps they have a way to secure some slots sooner?? Probably only a few people know..and so far it doesn't seem as if they are talking. UA may be in a bit of a tighter fix and really need to find a way to at least put some deposits down.
Actually, AA is almost in the same pot..as has been discussed to death on here, the replacement for the A-300-600's..Sometime soon an order or deposits will have to placed.
So, we wait...and hope that all the US carriers can eek out some profits and get back in the picture.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6592 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 18): Well UA used to be part of Boeing in the early 1900s. And UA was part of the "Working Together" team that helped develop the 777, as well as the launch operator (if not customer).
The only carrier which hasn't purchased the 777 who was part of the "Working Together" team was QF... ....but I'm still hoping to see the 777 in QF colours.. ...
Now that UA HQ will be a few blocks away from Boeing HQ, maybe Boeing will have more special invites for UA with large mock-up frames of the 787 and 747-8I in UA colours..
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6592 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 18): I suppose if the rumor is true, it could hinge on how the deal is structured. If Boeing allows UA to apply the $65 million they have as "factory credit" (so a bit less then $2 million a frame), then there is no cash out of pocket up front. And if Boeing allows UA to defer the "progress payments" until the frames are actually laid down (in, say 2009,) and allows UA to cancel without penalty (or any additional penalty other then the $65 million) up to that time, then it really isn't costing UA anything to secure 35 slots. If their financial's support all 35 (or a lower amount) come 2009, they start making progress payments and all is good. If not, then they walk away from money that they couldn't use for general operating expenses, anyway.
You have a point. I dont beleive that UA will not ask Boeing for some very favourable deal on deposits here and that whilst Boeing would not be happy to just accept anything that UA put on thr table, they will be able to negotiate some deal which has everybody walking away with a smile on their faces.
If UA were to suggest a deal that saw them take options on a large order for 787's and with that they tempted Boeing with an order for the 747-8i, a deal could surely be struck IMHO anyway!
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
Quoting Boston92 (Reply 19): Both are the two companies newest creations, and all I said was I think 787 will have more orders after it is out for a year or so.
The Mercedes R class and the BMW Mini are also the newest creations of these two companies and still don´t compete with each other.
No doubt that the 787 will have more orders than the A380 because they are not too many airlines around that will have the need for a 747/A380 sized plane but rather need a A350/787 sized aircraft for their longhaul network. The A380 has a very limited market with just a few major carriers.
I have no intention to start an A vs B argument but you can not compare the 787 and the A380 it is like apples and oranges.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6160 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 23): I have no intention to start an A vs B argument but you can not compare the 787 and the A380 it is like apples and oranges.
There was never a comparison. I said that "I think" that when the 787 comes out, there would be an increase orders, but when the A380 comes out, there will be a decrease in orders. Never any comparison. This is just what I think. You can think what you want.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
25 787engineer: What do you mean by a decrease in orders? A decrease in order rates or are you implying there will be cancellations after EIS? The order rate is alre
26 Boston92: Everybody but me are comparing the two planes. If the A380 ever does "prove itself service", then you can argue with me. I bet the A380 wont ever pro
27 Stitch: Since this thread is about UA and a rumored 787 order by them, can we please move the A380 and 787 program success comments to another thread? Thanks.
28 Boston92: Agreed. I know UA will order 787, just the question is when. Maybe next (this week), maybe not.
29 Manni: I can't wait to hear your arguments. I can't wait to hear your arguments. More like apples and melons. Apart from the rumour spread by the topicstart
31 Boston92: Okay. Mostly just rumors from UA employees, telling their family who tells us. Like a game of telephone, but that never works out.
32 JayinKitsap: I think this rumor has more basis than the LH threads where LH will be ordering a boatload of 380's, no 350's, no 340's, etc. and Boeing need not app
33 JAAlbert: Okay, so it's now "next week" -- where is the order announcement???
34 Stitch: Maybe UA and Boeing will announce it on Friday after the market's close to let Wall Street analysts chew over it's significance and impact over the w
35 787engineer: Uh. . . I don't think 'everybody' is comparing the A380 with the 787. If you read my post you would see I agree with you that the 787 will get a lot
36 WorldTraveler: UA’s restructuring plan to get out of bankruptcy assumed no significant capital expenditures for 5 years which makes the 2008 ORDER date plausible i
37 Ikramerica: But they could lease them, as placing 787s elsewhere should UA default will not be a problem.
38 Katekebo: Orderring the aiplanes now does not necessarily imply an immediate huge cash outlay. I think a customer like UA could place an order with less then 1
39 WorldTraveler: The point is not what kind of terms UA could get but that UA is using its existing assets more poorly than any other carrier. Financiers would be hard
40 CTHEWORLD: Where are you getting this information?
41 SeeTheWorld: I'm not sure what that means, but in terms of assets, at least UA has some valuable assets versus your beloved Delta. While UA still has many issues,
42 WorldTraveler: All of the airlines in question have released their information publicly. Comparisons of industry financial performance is available from several indu
44 SeeTheWorld: You quoted one fact: UA's operating margin. I suggest you sit down and read all the analyst reports because I have read them all cover to cover. Most
45 HZ747300: I would like to see United start a subsidiary in Hong Kong, which is locally owned. That way, there is a Star Alliance presence in one of the world's
46 WorldTraveler: You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter one hill of beans what UA’s premium in any part of the world is , their costs are way out of line with the
47 NDSchu777: It's Friday and no big earth-shattering press release from United or Boeing. Seems all this rumor was, was a rumor. Although it was pretty unlikely I
48 KSUpilot: Since it looks like it isn't happening today, when do you think we might be seeing this order? By the end of the year? A year from now?
49 United787: I guess I can put the Champagne away.
50 Stitch: I think the honest answer is when UA feels it is time. And only they know when that time will be. They probably want to see what the A350 brings to t
51 Heavierthanair: G´day I did a search on A-net, it seems this subject was not discussed before, at least not recently! Had UA ordered Boeings, in other words an Ameri
52 Jfk777: IF NW can order 787 then surely UA can too. I think a deal would include some 747-8 because Boeing needs a launch for that airplane.
53 Dank: Except for the fact that 3 years of bankruptcy has to have had a big impact on available credit. But some creditors may be willing to fork over more
54 Ordpark: well, it's 0020 on Sat. morning.......Maybe next week!!!
55 Columba: Doubt that !! I am sure they will place an order for the 787 sometime but not in the next few weeks. Also UA is one of the few US airlines that I can
56 CALMSP: lets just hope UA & CO order the same engines!!!
57 Danny: I suggest that we put unreliable rumour list and put the author of this one on it. As mentioned in part one he previously reported other rumours based
58 Hiflyer: Danny... I agree. Hundreds of posts to discuss an unfounded rumor does seem a little farfectched...especially when it is turning into another platform
59 Jano: NW ordered B787s in May 2005. They declared Ch11 in September 2005. The good folks in Lynchburg, Tennessee, must be getting all heart attacks. Jack D
60 JAAlbert: Yes, but in these dog days of August (well now September) what else are we going to talk about? Not much order activity going on -- it seems the avia
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....but I'm still hoping to see the 777 in QF colours.. 
...
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