8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4715 times:
Since London Southend Airport is my local airport, I have obviously taken a great interest in it, especially now it has plans to expand. It currently has a weekly Saturday service to Jersey with FlyBE in the summer using one of their new Q400 aircraft. Does anyone know of any other airlines/destinations being planned to serve Southend once the new terminal is opened in 2008? The airport website does not seem to be updated with news very often, although they do state that FlyBE are expected to launch new services. Ive written a list below of the sort of flights I could see using the airport:
FlyBE: 1 x daily - Glasgow
1 x daily - Edinburgh
1 x daily - Dublin
1 x daily - Belfast City
1 x daily - Paris CDG
Possibly summer flights to places such as Palma, Alicante, Malaga & Geneva
VLM: 1 x daily - Brussels
Eastern Airways: 1 x daily - Manchester
1 x daily - Newcastle
3 x weekly - Inverness
Aer Arann: 3 x weekly - Cork
I also heard from a friend from work that KLM Cityhopper would start a service to Amsterdam, most likely with the Fokker 50, which would be a great link to the rest of Europe & the World.
I think the airport is quite restricted with the type of airlines using the airport, considering it will only be able to operate with propeller aircraft because of the short runway. However they do want to operate further to places such as Milan, Rome, Barcelona, Palma and Malta.
Egmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4654 times:
I wish SEN well the only thing that bothers me is Rochford District Council about the airport railway station parking. Things are looking good here at the moment. Flybe might make SEN a hub and serve more destinations. Flightline are operating flights for Ford Motor Co to CGN. There seems to be more biz jet/prop movements. ATC Lasham & the other engineering companies are doing well. VG have a contract to use SEN as a diversion airport if LCY is closed for traffic.
Theres a lot of talk about SEN both on pprune and on my forums (Air Humberside).
Dont also forget Ford Air have moved from STN to SEN. The airport are presently talking of up to 500,000 passengers next year - if this will happen remains to be seen. SEN clearly has potential. Hopefully someone will exploit it
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6473 posts, RR: 27 Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4524 times:
Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter): I think the airport is quite restricted with the type of airlines using the airport, considering it will only be able to operate with propeller aircraft because of the short runway.
With a 5023 ft runway they can use also all the jet-types that are cleared for LCY. The ARJ should perform well as should the A318 do.
Please update me: Is there still the public road at the western end of runway 06/24 which has railroad-crossing-style barriers that come down if a bigger a/c uses the runway ? If still present: Is it foreseen to relacate that road ? Eastbury Lane it is, isn't it ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4451 times:
HT
Yes, Eastwoodbury Road is still there and there are no plans to relocate the road anymore. The Southend Borough Council have provided the airport with land on the other side of the road, to enable new Runway End Safety Area's (RESAs) to be installed, so that the airport is updated with the CAA's requirements.
Airplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2725 posts, RR: 45 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4439 times:
As much as I would like to see my local airport expand in this way, you have to look at the alternatives. I highly doubt VLM will fly to Brussels from Southend. They fly to Brussels from LCY, which is only 30 minutes down the road.
Same goes with Eastern to NCL.
The airport has potential, just how much remains to be seen, with LCY being so close, I can't see airlines such as VLM, Eastern and KLM CH flying from Southend, I doubt the number of passengers would be that high, seeing that they all have multiple flights to/from LCY and STN.
8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4427 times:
Quoting Damian (Reply 2): Only thing is, 1 x daily is what killed off EDI/GLA to LPL.
Why didnt FlyBE add a second daily flight then to Glasgow & Edinburgh? If Liverpool can't do it then I don't think Southend will!! Much small airport and catchment area than Liverpool.
Are there no direct flights now between Liverpool & GLA/EDI?
8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4416 times:
Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 8): As much as I would like to see my local airport expand in this way, you have to look at the alternatives. I highly doubt VLM will fly to Brussels from Southend. They fly to Brussels from LCY, which is only 30 minutes down the road.
Same goes with Eastern to NCL.
The airport has potential, just how much remains to be seen, with LCY being so close, I can't see airlines such as VLM, Eastern and KLM CH flying from Southend, I doubt the number of passengers would be that high, seeing that they all have multiple flights to/from LCY and STN.
I can see your point regarding all of the airlines/destinations you've written above, however I am only highlighting what I have been told and what I have read on the website. A friend of mine who used to work for KLM told me personally that they were starting a service to Amsterdam. Plus, it states on the website that Southend intends to fly to all of these other destinations such as Brussels. If VLM won't do it, which airline will? There are not many options considering its only a small airport which needs small aircraft!
Airplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2725 posts, RR: 45 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4407 times:
Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter): Possibly summer flights to places such as Palma, Alicante, Malaga & Geneva
Sorry, just read this bit. I think Spain would be pushing it for Southend, maybe too far. Yes, I know - in the old day's people used to fly all over Europe from Southend, but back then it was a well known airport. Believe it or not, Southend was once busier than LHR (Hard to believe now, I know!)
The only aircraft that would be capable of flying to Spain from SEN would be the 146. BA Connect have just started a daily service to MAD from LCY, and that's pushing the aircraft to the edge of it's range, that's with a weight restriction due to the length of the runway at LCY.
To be honest, I could see SEN getting high load's on domestic flights. I was at SEN on Saturday, the FlyBe flight seemed to have a high load which is good news. Lot's of older couples like to fly to places such as Jersey, Newquay, Scotland etc for the weekend.
I also believe Southend will become more popular for maintenance. When I was last there, ATC Lasham was talking about expanding the hangers thus being able to get more aircraft inside at once, same goes for Air Livery.
Business jet wise, I can't see much happening. We currently get a couple every week, usually LEA of NJE, but nothing substantial, I believe the LCY Jet Centre will always be one step ahead of the rest (although, I'm biased, I work there! )
Airplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2725 posts, RR: 45 Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4402 times:
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10): I can see your point regarding all of the airlines/destinations you've written above, however I am only highlighting what I have been told and what I have read on the website. A friend of mine who used to work for KLM told me personally that they were starting a service to Amsterdam. Plus, it states on the website that Southend intends to fly to all of these other destinations such as Brussels. If VLM won't do it, which airline will? There are not many options considering its only a small airport which needs small aircraft!
Of course, I'm not saying they wont fly there, I just don't know if the demand is there.
As for the website, Intending and it actually happening are two different things! Don't get me wrong, It'll be great to see SEN finally expand - I may even get something new to photograph!
Yak97 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
Historically Princess Air used to operate the 146-200QC (launch customer) from SEN to FAO, AGP, PMI, VCE, PUY, DBV, JER during the day, on a W pattern with operations out of BOH. Then at night the aircraft used to operate cargo flights to CGN & BRU.
The driving force behind Princess Air was a local Southend based tour operator, Burstin Travel, who linked up with a Bournemouth tour operator, Palmair to use the aircraft. Burstin also used to charter Air Malta for weekly holiday flights with 737-200!
They were able to charge a premium for holiday flights as it saved passengers the journey to LGW or LTN (the major holiday departure points in the early 90's). From the passenger point of view it was great - all day time flights, good service and when they got back to Southend they were through the airport and in their car within 10 minutes. I've never seen so many complementary letters from passengers.
However the economic situation in the beginning of 1991 pushed Burstin into stop operating, which was a real shame as only a couple of weeks later Air Europe stopped operating, and Princess Air would have been in a good position to pick up work.
The lack of a local tour operator is the main reason behind Southend not having holiday flights. Palmair still operate from BOH, using 737's.
Scheduled services from Southend were, in recent times, only operated on smaller regional aircraft (after the Maersk F50 BLL flight moved to LGW). So you had National Commuter operating B200 to BRU (in conjunction with Sabena) & SD3-30 & 3-60 on JER/GCI services. Harvest Air/Regional had EMB110 & J31 on RTM & CDG. Tulip operated RTM (Pa31?) (Who operated the Nomad?? - Holland Airlines).
After these services stopped, Southend has fallen out of the scheduled "loop", what with the explosive growth of STN and the restrictions of Southend's runway. Additionally LCY has grown, although the journey time to LCY from Southend in the morning is excessive.
The future? With Flybe involved - who knows? Flybe don't have a great reputation for having a stable business plan, so I think the fact that they fly into Southend from Jersey is to utilise a Jersey based aircraft. I don't think they have long term plans for expansion at Southend & the Dash is too big for most of the routes from Southend, especially where there has never been a service before. I think they have more lucrative options for deploying their aircraft.
There is still an opportunity for services from Southend but it would need to be a business orientated airline, with smaller turbo-prop (J31/SF340/EMB120) charging business class fares to near European destinations (RTM, BRU, CDG, DUS etc). For business passengers, where time is a big element, the journey to STN (it takes nearly as much time to get from the long-term car park to the terminal at STN as it does to fly SEN-BRU), 2 hour check-in, early departure times all make a good service from Southend an attractive option.
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4193 times:
Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 8): They fly to Brussels from LCY, which is only 30 minutes down the road.
Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter): x daily - Glasgow
1 x daily - Edinburgh
1 x daily - Dublin
1 x daily - Belfast City
1 x daily - Paris CDG
Is there really 200 people per day demand from Southend to any of these places (100 each way ?)
Given Southend is 90 minutes from London any business traveller is going to use LCY or any other London Airport which would be infinitely closer / cheaper to fly from.
The only people flying from Southend will be Chavs on cheap holidays.
Other than that maybe a flight a day to Scotland / Amsterdam. I couldnt imagine anyone else being interested in flying from the edge of the earth to anywhere.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
Airplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2725 posts, RR: 45 Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4087 times:
Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 15): i would think a 2 daily to EDI would work with a dash 8 . not too sure about GLA! I still think it is too near STN for any real growth!
Why do you think? Do you know the catchments? Where people want to travel?
Yak97 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4018 times:
The Southend catchment area could be quite large, depending on how you work it out, but could well be 2M+.
If you're traying to get out of Southend (or Leigh-on-sea/Rayleigh/Hockley/Brentwood etc) in the mroning to get a flight from LGW / LHR / LTN you suffer the nightmare of the A127/A13 followed by that well known car-park - the M25! Anyway who wants to go west to end up flying east to a European destination?
Stansted is a bit cross country, if you want to avoid M25/M11.
However going into Southend in the morning, while still being a pain is more manageable, so the ctachment area could be right up to the M25. And this area is only set to grow with the Thames Gateway (?).
As regards destinations, I think any UK domestic destination will struggle, but that's more a UK mindset thing. But near European business destinations should be a no-brainer, on the right size aircraft.
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3994 times:
Quoting Yak97 (Reply 17): Anyway who wants to go west to end up flying east to a European destination?
Most people go north to Stansted.
Southends got just as much potential as a major gateway to the UK as Cambridge has.
Take other examples...Manston... also close to the M25 but who wants to go all the way out there..
Same thing will happen here.
The only reason people goto Stansted is cheap flights and variety
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
Yak97 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3963 times:
Manston is a poor equivalent: its 50 miles from the M25, against 19 for Southend, and (according to 2001 census) Manston has a surrounding population figures of around 260,000 (if you include Canterbury) while Southend & surroundings has a figure of over 550,000 (+ 150,000 if you count Chelmsford, which is half way between Southend & Stansted).
Southend could push the fact that, being a small airport, there would be much shorter check-in times & times from car parks etc. These are important factors for business travellers.
8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
Quoting Yak97 (Reply 19): Manston is a poor equivalent: its 50 miles from the M25, against 19 for Southend, and (according to 2001 census) Manston has a surrounding population figures of around 260,000 (if you include Canterbury) while Southend & surroundings has a figure of over 550,000 (+ 150,000 if you count Chelmsford, which is half way between Southend & Stansted).
Southend could push the fact that, being a small airport, there would be much shorter check-in times & times from car parks etc. These are important factors for business travellers.
I agree completly. I personally can't imagine anyone wanting to fly INTO Southend myself, unless they had friends/relatives here, or they weren't for any reason able to get on a flight to any of the other major London airports.
BUT, it does state in the Master Plan that Southend Airport does intend to see up to 2 million passengers a year by 2030. The population of Southend alone is around 160,000 which is more than Norwich (120,000), and FlyBE, as well as other airlines (BMI, KLM, Eastern, Air Southwest + charters) have all set up great bases flying reguarly to destinations all around Europe. So if Norwich can do it, there is no reason why Southend can't. It also has the advantages over Norwich that it has a larger catchment area...Chelmsford, Basildon, Colchester and...London!!! You can be at Southend Airport from London Liverpool Street in about 50 minutes which quicker than getting to Heathrow where you will then have to face congestion & ques!!
I wish Southend all the best of luck and I think it will be a tremendous airport to fly from!
Egmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3856 times:
STN is an hour and half by coach from Southend.
There is a large population of people of Southend residents from Scotland and a large Scottish bank with a large presence in the town do think that make GLA & EDI workable?
Ned Kelly From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3729 times:
Quoting Yak97 (Reply 17): Stansted is a bit cross country, if you want to avoid M25/M11.
Have you not used the A130 and the A120 lately? These have both been upgraded in the past couple of years, so the journey to Stansted has been cut in half. (Depending where you live of course!)
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 20): So if Norwich can do it, there is no reason why Southend can't. It also has the advantages over Norwich that it has a larger catchment area...Chelmsford, Basildon, Colchester
Being a Colchester boy, I can tell you that it is quicker and nearer to travel to Stansted then it is Southend, and possibly Norwich too.
IMO, what killed off "London Southend Airport" was LCY.
As a side note, I was fortunate enough to fly on a BAF carvair from SEN-OST back in 1973, and returned on an unkown Viscount. It was a great experience.
25 StarGoldLHR: Southend's best chance is to fly somewhere different every flight. That way it keeps people interested. Seriously.. once youve been to Amsterdam for t
26 Egmcman: Could you see people being tempted to use SEN if there was a railway station on the Liverpool St-Southend Victoria railway line?
27 8herveg: There is going to be a station at SEN when the terminal is built!!
28 Egmcman: Not unless the airport operator and Rochford District Council can come to to an agreement about parking as they don't want it being by most train sta
29 Humberside: Hopefully the station will be built. It will be a major selling point of SEN
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