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JAL Oneworld Expansion?  
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

*Standard disclaimer appologizing if topic has been discussed*

I was just wondering, as we draw nearer to the official entrance of JAL into the Oneworld alliance, if we will see greater expansion to meet new hubs. I was specifically thinking of destinations such as DFW, MIA, or major South American hubs such as Rio, Santiago, Buenos Aires, etc. I was even wondering if we might see new routes to Helsinki, Barcelona, and Madrid. While I know those routes would be thin and therefore unlikely, I am specifically interested in US expansion.

Any info or insight would be appreciated.


Sic 'em bears
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

When the 787s arrive, flights to oneWorld hubs like Miami or Madrid, I think, will be very likely. Though, until the 787s come, JAL has enough problems to worry about.


a.
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

What problems would you be referring to?


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 2):
What problems would you be referring to?

They are bleeding lots of cash.

A few of its routes are in the RED.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25759 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

JAL in recent years has seen a significant cut back in many traditional markets such as the US.
ATL, DFW, LAS, SEA have all seen the discontinuation of service, while frequencies have gotten trimmed significantly in other markets. For instance LAX has gone from 3 sometimes 4 daily flights to merely 8 times weekly service come this fall.

The below thread discusses some of JALs route shifts. Primary market of concentration as of recent seems to be China for the carrier.
JL Increase BKK, DEL, Can Cuts At ORD And MNL (by Centrair Aug 18 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2943378



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
ATL, DFW, LAS, SEA have all seen the discontinuation of service,

JAL's SEA service was a codeshare with American Airlines. JAL's plane have not flown to Seattle in recent times.



a.
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4273 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
I was even wondering if we might see new routes to Helsinki, Barcelona, and Madrid.

No, you won't see that happen.
1) HEL-NRT is well served by AY on MD11. Part of OneWorld too! No need for JL to operate this route.
2) BCN & MAD are served via AMS in codeshare with IB (also OneWorld). Daily around 40 passengers maximum between AMS-BCN / MAD on both routes. Not enough demand to put an own aircraft down to Spain (something which was done in the past when the AMS flight flew onward to MAD and back to AMS before it's return to Japan).

JAL can't effort routes on which the demand will be low. That's why also NRT-ZRH is only served in summertime.

My ideas about new routes (for 772 or 787):

NRT-DXB (not served by EK)
NRT-IST (nowadays codeshare on TK's A343)
NRT-DUB

Cheers,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

No reason to serve DUB, Aer Lingus is leaving Oneworld just as JAL is joining. They'd be better off connecting passengers over Heathrow on BA.

Istanbul is TK's territory so I don't see JAL jumping on that route either.

DXB makes a bit of sense, but as soon as EK gets Narita slots they'll launch their own flights. I don't think the market is there for the time being (i.e. 3 daily flights to Dubai from Japan).

If SN does move over to oneworld, JAL would be smart to think about Brussels. Not a big market, but pretty high yields with all the premium Business and Government traffic.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

JL either lending AY slots or JL operating NRT-HEL is not totally out of reason because JL's stronghold on number of slots. For example, JL could cut some of the low-yield beach runs and put a 777 on the NRT-HEL.
NRT-HEL-Europe would be one of shorter connections to anywhere to most of Europe that doesn't have non-stop service from NRT.

NRT-MAD is a possibility but not until the 788 arrives.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 6):
1) HEL-NRT is well served by AY on MD11. Part of OneWorld too! No need for JL to operate this route.

Definitely not well served as it's only twice a week due to slot restrictions!

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 8):
JL either lending AY slots or JL operating NRT-HEL is not totally out of reason because JL's stronghold on number of slots.

We've been hoping this. But there is something VERY interesting on Finnair's website already on sale at the moment:

AY HEL-NRT - 4238 Nm With B752 Non-stop! (by UpperDeck79 Aug 29 2006 in Civil Aviation)

4 per week with B752?!



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 7):
No reason to serve DUB, Aer Lingus is leaving Oneworld just as JAL is joining. They'd be better off connecting passengers over Heathrow on BA.

We'll have to see what happens to LHR-Ireland routes. All of them are flown by Aerlingus with BA codeshare. (14x DUB, 4x ORK and 4x SNN)

When EI leaves, I see BA doing these routes, but of course, will have less frequency.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

I could see JL moving its Brasil flight from the mess JFK s for the customers to MAD or LHR.

In fact I think MAD would be an ideal stopover for an 777 NRT-MAD-GRU. The Japan-Spain leg is not that not too strong, so it is quite easy to refill all seats with 5th freedom traffic from Spain. Most of the traffic would fly the whole leg.

In contrast to the routing via JFK, where both legs are much more uneven in demand for a Japanes carrier. Huge demand Japan-New York but also difficult to find that much 5th freedom passengers from the US with a decent yield.


User currently offlineABC9 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 203 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1775 times:

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 6):
NRT-DUB

Whatever about the market, and I'd be sceptical of that, not so sure the runway in DUB could support a 772 loaded for NRT

Quoting Aisak (Reply 10):
When EI leaves, I see BA doing these routes

Unlikely I'd guess - BA will continue to codeshare with EI on the LHR flights after they leave OW, in the main due to slot restrictions. EI have 26 daily in LHR as far as I know - do BA have the capacity or inclination to go head to head with someone offering that frequency - I doubt it. Also, bear in mind that many of the pax are connecting on to BA flights anyway - unless the luggage presents a problem with being checked through (and I see no reason why it should), I'd expect BA to be happy with the status quo, albeit that it would no longer be within the same alliance.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 11):
In fact I think MAD would be an ideal stopover for an 777 NRT-MAD-GRU. The Japan-Spain leg is not that not too strong, so it is quite easy to refill all seats with 5th freedom traffic from Spain. Most of the traffic would fly the whole leg.

What about the 5th freedom rights Europe-Brazil? I don't think it's that easy to get them...

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 11):
In contrast to the routing via JFK, where both legs are much more uneven in demand for a Japanes carrier. Huge demand Japan-New York but also difficult to find that much 5th freedom passengers from the US with a decent yield.

Really? JL has a dedicated NRT-JFK-NRT flight too and there is huge demand Japan-Brazil for obvious reasons. I've only been hearing it's very difficult to book JFK-GRU-JFK in biz since most pax travel the whole route from Japan.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5090 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

Wouldn't be surprise if JAL launch services to major OneWorld hubs.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1542 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 13):
What about the 5th freedom rights Europe-Brazil? I don't think it's that easy to get them...

I could say its almost impossible. 5th freedom rights for a Brazil-Japan flight is limited to Switzerland in Europe.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

JL didn't last long at DFW. I know it was around 9/11. Were they a casualty of the times or just not profitable? I know they were operating an M11 on the service. AA has long since had double daily 777.

User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

You'll see China and India long before anywhere else. There may be some frequency adjustments in other markets but until the Company is back in the black, no new cities - at least none that they've told us!

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