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Can Boeing Ever Replace The 757?  
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14989 times:

I've read on here that the only replacement for the 757-200 and -300 is another -200 or -300. While the 737-800 and -900 are coming close in size, they do not have the same range as the 757. So overall, the 737 is close, but no deal. The 787 is much too large to take over the role of the 757. Maybe on some international routes it would work, however, there are airlines that do use the 757 on some domestic routes. For example, I am flying on a -200 at the end of September from CLE to EWR.
I could see some airlines replacing the domestic 757s with the 737s, Continental seems to use both on domestic routes.

What are the chances of Boeing finally coming out with a true 757 replacement with Y1? Some already believe that Y1 will have a longer gear, therefore allowing larger engines to be used for a 757 replacement. It will be amazing for Boeing to pull this off, since the Y1 is supposed to fill the smaller 100 seat, 737-600 market as well.

The key to all this is a larger engine. That is one of the main things holding the 737-900 back. Because its low ground clearance, a larger engine is not possible. Therefore it is most likely a given that one requirement for Y1 is to be higher off the ground. But how would Boeing go about creating a powerful variant of a 737 replacement that could also replace the 757. The two are entirely different beasts. We're talking a long stretch, probably different wing sizes, and possibly different engines.

I don't know about you, but it would be cool to see a 757 length aircraft using the technology and fuselage shape. I hate to bring the topic of Y1 up again, as it is so early, however, we already have talked about the 737 replacement portion of Y1 and the possibility of a LRJ. There has been little discussion of the larger variants.

119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14917 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
What are the chances of Boeing finally coming out with a true 757 replacement with Y1?

Probable. With greater range, it could significantly further fragment the transatlantic market. I'm also expecting it to accomodate single-file LD3s.

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
Some already believe that Y1 will have a longer gear, therefore allowing larger engines to be used for a 757 replacement.

The B737RS (formerly Y1) will surely have longer landing gear than the B737. Expect a height similar to the A320. Not only do high-bypass engines require larger fan diameters, but the jetbridges have difficulty reaching down to the B737s. The bigger landing gear question is how many wheels it will have. Two-wheel maingear bogeys are simpler, lighter, cheaper, and better suited to an A320/B737 sized airliner. Four-wheel maingear bogeys are needed for a heavier airliner like the B757. I think the B737RS will have four-wheel maingear bogeys.

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
Y1 is supposed to fill the smaller 100 seat, 737-600 market as well.

Supposed by some, yes, but unlikely. The B787-3/8 is much larger than the B757-300 and Boeing can't afford to leave a large gap in the middle of the product line. The B737RS will have to come in a variant at least about the size of the B757-300. My guess is the smallest one will about the size of an A319 or A320. Anything smaller than an A319 will be better served by a four abreast aircraft.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14917 times:

The 757 is truly an amazing aircraft and if Boeing had put more money into updating it along with creating a family around it, it would still be in production. Unfortunately, the 737 family and A320 family killed it. I don't know if Boeing is ever going to be able to replace it. With that being said, the 737-900ER is coming awfully close. When Boeing designs the next round of narrowbody aircraft, they will more than likely design a model that will imatate the 757 but until then, the second hand market for 757s will be tight.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30554 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14823 times:
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Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
The bigger landing gear question is how many wheels it will have. Two-wheel maingear bogeys are simpler, lighter, cheaper, and better suited to an A320/B737 sized airliner. Four-wheel maingear bogeys are needed for a heavier airliner like the B757. I think the B737RS will have four-wheel maingear bogeys.

Perhaps Boeing could offer both? The A320 can be fitted with a four-bogie gear unit, but only one Indian airline I believe has it (for use from "unimproved" airfields, I believe).

Maybe the 73G/738-sized Y1-100 would have two-wheel bogies and the 739/752-sized Y1-200 would have four?


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14654 times:

Airbus seems to be in a better position to replace the 757 with another aircraft than Boeing. The A350 does not reach all the way down to the 757 market, but the 787 can. I say this because Airbus would have no capacity overlap in their product line.

What'd you guys think?

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14598 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
The A350 does not reach all the way down to the 757 market, but the 787 can.

Huh? The B787-3/8 is tremendously larger than the B757-300.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14540 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):

Huh? The B787-3/8 is tremendously larger than the B757-300.

The -3, yes, but as far as capacity the -8 serves about the same market as the 752/753 (not talking range/cargo).

-8: ~210-250 pax
752: ~200-228
753: 243-289

All figures taken from Boeing.com

Since we are talking 757 replacement, the 787 would not be the optimal substitute (too much aircraft).

Making any sense?



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
Since we are talking 757 replacement, the 787 would not be the optimal substitute (too much aircraft).

Right now there is a gap in the market that the 757 used to fill. The -900 comes close, but it really is not the same aircraft.
Now if boeing were to place a longer gear on the -900 and then larger engines, then you'd have a viable 757 replacement.
But with Y1 only a decade away, it would not make sense to undertake such a drastic redesign.


User currently offlineWah64d From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

IMHO the B757 was misused by the majority of its operators back when fuel was cheap and times were good. The only two scheduled operators I can think of that currently utilise this aircraft to its full potential are Continental and Iceland Air. They are used on medium density, medium range routes where the ability to lift a reasonable amount in the belly of the aircraft is as important as the number of bums on seats. This is what the B757 was designed for and it remains the best aircraft for this mission to this day, not pootling around short haul/high demand sectors. There are other aircraft much better suited to this.

If we're being realistic, the A321 and B739 can easily do the tasks most operators are/were using B752s for. The only feasible replacement I can see is one which can replace B757 and B767, in a word B787.



I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14394 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
The -3, yes, but as far as capacity the -8 serves about the same market as the 752/753 (not talking range/cargo).

The B787-3 and B787-8 have exactly the same size cabins -- 223.8 sq meters. The B757-200 has a cabin floor area of 154.9 sq meters. I don't have the exact cabin floor area of the B757-300 at hand, but I recall it being about 185 sq meters. So, the B787-3/8 is about 25% larger than the B757-300.


User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 880 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14394 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
The -3, yes, but as far as capacity the -8 serves about the same market as the 752/753 (not talking range/cargo).

-8: ~210-250 pax
752: ~200-228
753: 243-289

The problem with this analogy is that the -8 is the same exact size as the -3. The only reason that they report smaller passenger loads is because of the mix of seats on the planes for short-haul vs. long-haul flying. Filling the same size plane with fewer passengers is no dice.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
Huh? The B787-3/8 is tremendously larger than the B757-300.

   The 787 was never going to be a 752 replacement, but I read comments by people suggesting it could be a 753 replacement which I just never understood. Add to that the fact that Boeing began emphasizing the 9-abreast seating which just made matters worse in the capacity department. Even vs. a 763 in domestic configuration, it's a bit of a step up, let alone vs. the 757s. The clear move to me seems to be that B and A will build their new single aisle planes from the 319/320/73G/738 size through the 753 range and relegate the smaller end to the Embraer's of the world or partner with someone to build something else in that space.

cheers.

edit to say doh! because Zvezda beat me to the punch (as usual on the top of his game)!

[Edited 2006-08-29 03:00:16]

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 961 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14377 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
The -3, yes, but as far as capacity the -8 serves about the same market as the 752/753 (not talking range/cargo).

That's because the 787-8 is shown with a full international configuration with business and first class cabins. If you configure the 787-3/8 with the same seats as a 757, the 787-8 will seat way more.

Keep in mind that the 787-3/8 is bigger than the 767-300/ER


User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14330 times:

Whatever it is, it will not be THE 757 which even if your an Airbus fan, we all love the rocket ride off the runway she gives us...she will be missed by many.

User currently offlineWAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14279 times:

Quoting B777ER (Reply 12):
Whatever it is, it will not be THE 757 which even if your an Airbus fan, we all love the rocket ride off the runway she gives us...she will be missed by many.

Hear hear. I was lucky enough to get a B752 on my flight from LHR-DUS last week. I'm an airbus fan but the B752 with RB211s remains my favourite aircraft of all time. I for one will be very sad when BA retires them.



I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14193 times:

I get to fly a CO 757-200 soon...EWR to CLE, really looking forward to it!

Quoting B777ER (Reply 12):
Whatever it is, it will not be THE 757 which even if your an Airbus fan, we all love the rocket ride off the runway she gives us...she will be missed by many.

Just wondering, what causes the rocket like take off with the 757? Maybe Y1 will have a rocket like take off.


User currently offlineAdipasqu From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14153 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 14):
Just wondering, what causes the rocket like take off with the 757? Maybe Y1 will have a rocket like take off.

It's engines. No, seriously though a 752 with RB211's might be one of the best performing commercial aircraft ever made, pound for pound. The 752/3's also have a supercritical wing with tremendous lift (and wake issues to go along with it).



707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14059 times:

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 15):
It's engines. No, seriously though a 752 with RB211's might be one of the best performing commercial aircraft ever made, pound for pound. The 752/3's also have a supercritical wing with tremendous lift (and wake issues to go along with it).

I hope that when it comes time for Y1, Boeing looks at it as a two fold project. The 737-NG has already shown you can stretch a 737 until it appears to fill the 757 market, however, it will never match the 757s performance.

So why not have a "smaller" variant to replace the 737-800/900. Smaller engines, a smaller wing, etc. Then have a larger stretch to fill the 757-200/300 market, an aircraft that is larger than the 737-900 but smaller than the 787. Could the GEnx engines used on the 787 be used on a 757 replacement?


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13856 times:

Quoting CX747 (Reply 2):
but until then, the second hand market for 757s will be tight.

It’s interesting, IZ has/had a couple of Rolls Royce powered 757-300’s available. They are being put up for sale/lease. They seem to be fairly new.

Who knows maybe CO will pick them up?


User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13833 times:

Along with what Adipasqu said about the wing...its also the thrust to weight ratio of the aircraft. I dare say there is not one of us on this board that doesn't get a slight grin when they hear the engines spool up to takeoff thrust at the beginning of the run on a 757.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13819 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 16):
So why not have a "smaller" variant to replace the 737-800/900. Smaller engines, a smaller wing, etc. Then have a larger stretch to fill the 757-200/300 market, an aircraft that is larger than the 737-900 but smaller than the 787. Could the GEnx engines used on the 787 be used on a 757 replacement?

Boeing could probably cover the B737-700 to B757-300 market with a single wing -- perhaps with different wingtip extentions. The smaller variants could have 5000nm+ range. The GEnx engines would be far too large. The B737RS will sell so many units that the engines will definitely be designed from a clean sheet to optimize efficiency for the model. There is no way Boeing would put widebody engines on the B737RS.

The concrete part of Boeing's future product line is the B787. They need to start one size smaller than the B787-3/8 (which happens to be the size of the B757-300) and cover the range downward from there.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13819 times:

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 15):
The 752/3's also have a supercritical wing with tremendous lift (and wake issues to go along with it).

with beautiful contrails too...especially when there is fog/haze in the area... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13797 times:

Also, in addition to the 757-200 not being replaced, the 767-200 is also not being replaced. Surprised no one mentioned that. The 787-8 replaces the 767-300, and the 787-9 replaces the 767-400. So, the whole seating range from 190-230 seats is unfilled, even by Airbus.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13711 times:

Quoting Wah64d (Reply 8):
There are other aircraft much better suited to this.

Yes, the 739ER and 321 are very well suited to routes that had the 752 before them, routes that fly no cargo but lots of people throughout the day.

Which is why any 757 replacement will be focused on the routes like TransAtlantic, North to South America, Europe to Africa, TransChina, etc. 200 seats in 2-class (249Y) with the ability to take pallets in the belly (longways) and a range greater than the 783 would fit the bill. Maybe 5000nm.

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 14):
I get to fly a CO 757-200 soon...EWR to CLE, really looking forward to it!

I think CO's 752 is the best configured 752 out there right now (ok, maybe the UA PS is better, but it's a niche aircraft). The 753 is a cool plane to fly on too because you look back at where the end of the plane should be, and there's a wall, then another cabin, like someone added another train car to the subway.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 17):
Who knows maybe CO will pick them up?

For the right price, they sure would. It would help quite a bit with international expansion to have another 753 for domestic high demand routes.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 21):
the 767-200 is also not being replaced

Like the 753, the 762 just never proved itself as a great aircraft for airlines. Even CO with it's very new 762s is finding it expensive to operate. The 762 is a good example of why Boeing isn't going to make a "short widebody" part of Y1. The 753 was also not popular as it was just too long and didn't have enough range, and is a pretty good case against Boeing introducing a Y1 of that size. It's why I expect that there will be a Y1 BETWEEN the size of the 752 and 753 (249Y), and a Y1 about the size of the 739ER (199Y, a bit smaller than a 752), a Y1 slightly smaller than the 738 (174Y) and one the size of the 73G (149Y), and no 736 sized at all. The gap between the 738 and 73G is too large and is a pain for airlines, and the gap between the 738 and 739 is too small in real configurations.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13656 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
Like the 753, the 762 just never proved itself as a great aircraft for airlines

I know that it didn't sell very well but I've heard that CO is kicking themselves for not ordering more while they had the chance. That's why they bought the extra TZ birds.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13645 times:

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 23):
I know that it didn't sell very well but I've heard that CO is kicking themselves for not ordering more while they had the chance. That's why they bought the extra TZ birds.

Not the 762, the 753, right?

Actually, CO DID order more. Boeing convinced them to cancel them and take more 738s instead so they could shut the 757 line down. CO agreed because they couldn't afford to take the 757s soon enough to force Boeing to build them before shutting the line down.

The 762 sold quite a few copies, but it was expensive to operate as better options came about. The 753 is cheap to operate, but has limited appeal due to it's size/range ratio. CO prefers a large narrow body fleet, but so many other carriers prefer wide bodies in the size of the 753, that it had limited appeal. But it will have a long life with those who fly it now, and as a charter jet in the future.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 OptionsCLE : Quite right, I was referring to the 753. Very interesting, though, about the order transfer. How many frames did Continental have on order before thy
26 Zvezda : I'm not following your argument here. Boeing can build a B757-300 sized B737RS (formerly Y1) with satisfactory range. How is the limited range of the
27 KSUpilot : That sounds rather likely, and it does make sense. I also understnad why they would never put widebody engines on the Y1. So enjoy those 757 take-off
28 Post contains images Stitch : Is that really the case? I know AS has found the trip-costs between the 73G and 738 to be so small that even if the 738 does not go out full, as long
29 WAH64D : I concur 100%.
30 CX747 : It seems to me that the 757 never realized its full potential until it was out of production. I wonder if CO would buy new 757s if the line was open.
31 KSUpilot : I like that about CO. When looking at the 737-800 and the 757-200, instead of replacing the -200s on domestic routes, CO uses both. How profitable is
32 KSUpilot : 100% agree. I'm sure Continental would buy more if the line were reopened, but that will never happen. I just hope for a direct replacement with Y1,
33 AirTranTUS : I was thinking about something similar to this last week. What if Boeing made a 787-2. Sinct the aircraft is mostly composite, the usual higher weight
34 OptionsCLE : CLE-EWR is simply a repositioning flight for an internationally configured 75B. That same ship has just come in on the LGW-CLE inbound flight CO67. A
35 Stitch : Well if CO can sell those BF seats at domestic F or Y fares, it's probably pretty profitable for them. It will certainly still apply, it just might n
36 KSUpilot : I don't think a shrunken 787 could fill the role of a 757. What could is a narrowbody based on the 787 with efficient engines that still have around t
37 Stitch : Well there is about a 10-15,000lb difference between the 739ER's powerplant and the 752's available powerplants. And there is about a 60,000lb MTOW sp
38 Dank : I think, but I could be wrong, that the reason you want bigger engines is that you can make them more efficient, not simply more powerful, but I coul
39 MarkATL : It sure as hell beat the the 707s and DC8s it was designed to replace. It was designed in the early and late 70s as a replacement for first generatio
40 Ikramerica : A Y1 would also be too long if it was to hold as many pax as the 753. I'm just saying it'll be a bit shorter at max. They do it rather than parking i
41 RichM : Why did Boeing axe the 757 line? From what I've read on a.net, 757's seem to be in demand and second hand 757's are snapped up pretty quickly. What ar
42 Post contains images Stitch : But isn't that the way of stretches? While she only saw 128 sales (and 110 of them were between 1978 and 1981), she was evidently economical enough v
43 MarkATL : I totally agree, my point was the original 767-200 was was not designed for a late 80's mission. The 767-200 was designed in a world of every route b
44 Ikramerica : Not always. The 753 is a good example, as it came very late in the game but was offered much earlier and nobody wanted it. 739 wasn't a successful st
45 Post contains images Stitch : I'll spot you the 753, but Boeing should have released the 739ER as the base 739. The 739's capacity was hampered due to a lack of exit doors, making
46 Dank : While typically true, that didn't work out for the a330. Nor for the 757, for that matter. cheers.
47 Stitch : Correct me if I am wrong, but the A330 has yet to be stretched, since the A330-200 was a shrink of the baseline A330-300. And the A332 has sold at le
48 Dank : In general, shrinks are worse. But I guess it really is a bit odd in the 330 case because Airbus guessed wrong as to which models were the desirable
49 Post contains images AirEMS : Hell yes on that one! A UA 752 was my first Transcon flight and my first time flying in first class so it will always have a special place with me. T
50 Ckfred : I have to disagree. There are a number of 737-200s and -500s that need to be replaced. NW is also operating DC-9s, and AA will need a replacement for
51 AA777223 : My gosh! How much shorter could the gear be?! The 737 already looks like its going to drag its engine nacelles, if it just hits a big enough runway c
52 Post contains images Maiznblu_757 : As far as looks, no, there will never be another newly produced Boeing aircraft that will look as good as the 757.
53 KSUpilot : That is rather interesting. So in a way, there was potential ofr a larger, much more powerful -900ER back when the 757 was originally planned. I can
54 COERJ : On my last transatlantic 757 flight I was considering the replacement. I don't understand why Boeing just doesn't create a 757-8 or something like tha
55 Ikramerica : The capacity was only hampered for those who wanted a single class interior over 189 seats. Basically charter carriers, and a couple of startup LCCS
56 YULWinterSkies : In other words (and I'm not looking at your first Y1) a Y1 of the size of the A321, a Y1 of the size of the A320, a Y1 of the size of the A319, and n
57 Okie73 : Just rumor, but I was told that Boeing wanted to lengthen the landing gear for both the -800 and -900. However, the FAA told them if they did that th
58 Revelation : No one is mentioning purchase price: is there a big gap in the purchase price of a 737-900ER vs 757-200 in today's dollars?
59 KSUpilot : So I assume if they wanted to raise the -800 and -900 they also wanted to add larger, more efficient engines.
60 AirEMS : IIRC one of the problems with the 753 and to a lesser extent the 752 is the amount of time it takes to board and de plane the A/C I don't know if jus
61 Ikramerica : No. First, there's one bigger than the 321. Then there is one the size of the 321 (199Y, chosen for staffing reasons). Then there is one slightly big
62 COERJ : I think a replacement would have the same capacity, as it is the advantage to using the plane on transatlantic flights. CO uses the 757 on thin route
63 Ckfred : Look at the Boeing customers just in the U.S. that are currently flying either 737-200s or -500s, DL, WN, and CO, and another that desparately needs
64 Dank : The problem is that strategy clearly leaves a gap until you get to 290 passengers (minimum boeing states for the 787-3) for domestic use and 210 (min
65 HAWK21M : The B757 is a fantastic Aircraft.Boeing should reopen this line. regds MEL
66 Zvezda : Are you thinking of 88"x125" pallets? I think the max width of the B737RS' cargo hold will be a bit greater than 90", but I expect the floor width to
67 OldAeroGuy : Your friend is very wrong. Only one gear length was ever offered on the 757. There was an initial proposal for a 757-100 that no airline was ever int
68 Post contains images Stitch : Yes, I should concentrate more on cabin area then just cabin length, since the 787-8 is only two meters longer, but one meter wider which allows for
69 Ckfred : It was very successful. If you look at airlines that fly the 757, most of them fly the 767. A friend of mine that flies for AA used to routinely fly
70 OldAeroGuy : And I was on the original 757 design team in the late 70's when the airplane was created.
71 Surfdog75 : Agreed. I've flown it for a long time. To me, there is no better combination of power, range, and short field performance. Not to mention she is the
72 Ckfred : You're right about the short field performance. I once was flying on an AA 757 from ORD to SEA, and it was a full flight. Rather than wait in line fo
73 KSUpilot : Since many are talking of some of their favorite 757 flights, which do you think is more fun to fly / be a passenger on, the -200 or the -300? Which h
74 Ikramerica : But they don't want one overbuilt with 3200nm range, and that's what both Airbus and Boeing offer and the 318 and 736 aren't getting too many sales f
75 KSUpilot : I agree, overall I hope the Y1 757 replacement doesn't change much. What I find interesting is that when you look at the 757 nose, it is not too much
76 Surfdog75 : From all the guys and girls who fly it, and for the passengers who ride it (but have no idea how good it is), thanks for helping design such an aweso
77 Zvezda : A 130" door is not the main problem. With CFRP, it's possible to make the door the size needed. The problem is that an 88" x 125" pallet will fit onl
78 KSUpilot : I second this. I'm new to the 757 Fan Club, but now I can see there is no other aircraft like it. Too bad they ended production, this aircraft would
79 Post contains links and images KSUpilot : Had some fun with an image that originally appeared on MAF. I agree with the original artist in what the 797 or "Y1" will look like. The original is l
80 Stitch : I'm going to guess Boeing is not going to bother replacing the 753, so figure the 797-100 holds 150 in "Boeing two-class" config, the 787-200 holds up
81 KSUpilot : I don't think a 25 seat gap is anything to worry about as well. It would probably be better to keep some distance from the 787-3/8 as the 797-300 cou
82 Post contains links and images KSUpilot : Here is an alternative for the 797-300...larger more powerful engines. I was going to do the same for the 797-200, but larger, more powerful engines w
83 AA777223 : That is an absolutely gorgeous aircraft. I hope that is how it ends up looking. It looks well proportioned in all sizes, and the -300 especially looks
84 Stitch : I imagine we'll see a common engine family, but probably two seperate cores. One in the ~30,000lb thrust range for the "domestic" versions and one in
85 KSUpilot : I agree, this aircraft could be a replacement for the 757, and a good one at that.
86 SLCUT2777 : A very fun thread! Personally seeing how tight the market is for used 752s (DL a classic example...being the largest 752 operator with the acquisition
87 KSUpilot : I think they did. I can almost see why Boeing got rid of the -200, as it would stamp out the need for the 737-800/900. Still the two are very differe
88 Lemurs : People...they're not going to stop selling an airplane that was making them a ton of money. The B757 cost more to produce than a 737NG, yet the 737NG
89 DZ09 : Was boeing selling more 767 than 757's? I think not, however the assembly line for the 767 is still open, isn't it? First Boeing bought MD and shut do
90 Lemurs : Do you know WHY they haven't killed the 767? Because they still want to sell hundreds of them to the US military. If the 767 tanker program hadn't bee
91 SLCUT2777 : The A321 is very common in many fleets of European air carriers, and AC runs the A321 as well. The Boeing 717 was a "re-shoed" DC-9, that only the "M
92 Dank : Add in the fact that it is not clear to me that DL would have bought new 752s when they bought the secondhand birds... Two reasons to keep the 767 li
93 AF022 : NW has a bunch of 757-300s that are pretty recent vintage, no? Are they planning to hold on to them?
94 Stitch : I would expect so, since they're used on high-density routes like Hawai'i.
95 Lemurs : NW seems to be very happy with them, as is CO and AZ...I'm not sure anyone wants to get rid of them. (I think someone mentioned Condor might be looki
96 KSUpilot : Thanks for the informative post. And as much as I love the 757, it made sense for it to go. The spot the 757 filled in the market is being somewhat f
97 Dank : Very true. The -900er can not replace all 752s. It can replace a large number of them, but not all of them same with the 321). I doubt that there is
98 KSUpilot : CO, UA, AA will make due with what they have. Most of the CO's -200s and -300s are relatively young. And with updates AAs could improve. But there wil
99 KSUpilot : Just read a few articles from when the 757 was phased out. In April of 2004, Boeing felt this way about the 757 program: "The decision to phase out th
100 Tangowhisky : The killing of the 717 and the 757 are common. Boeing's new management want to get rid of poorly performing products, eliminate internal competition a
101 KSUpilot : Even though I am a 757 fan, the 737 family is truly amazing in the fact that is has been able to cover such a large market for so long. Even though t
102 Post contains images Bmacleod : I mentioned this in another discussion that the 737-900ER is the closest current replacement for the 757 in terms of range and seats. On the same topi
103 Tangowhisky : First of all there is no urgency what so ever to start replacement of the 737 other than those romanticising over the 787 technology. The 737 line is
104 KSUpilot : Very good post that sums it all up very nicely. So in a way the 757 replacement will truly be more of a 737-8/9 replacement, as that is the ideal mark
105 Allstarflyer : Interesting. When I worked for DH, I (briefly) wondered the possibility of getting 2nd hand 757's instead of brand new a/c. Yeah, the 757 is an enjoy
106 Dank : I highly doubt that Boeing is going to leave nothing between a 200 seater Y1 and a 300 seater 783. I think that there isn't a lot of pressure to repl
107 Max Q : 753 is a superb aircraft, NOTHING else can move the same payload so economically.
108 BAW716 : There is not going to be a 757 replacement in the near term future. That said, the 757s (the newer airframes) can be fitted with winglets to increase
109 KSUpilot : Will the -300s soon be fitted with winglets as well?
110 Zvezda : I've been suggesting 5000nm. Someone else suggested 6000nm. In my opinion, the transatlantic market is ripe for further fracturing by a B757-sized ai
111 ChrisNH : It's pretty interesting. I'm old enough to remember flying out of Boston's Logan Airport way back in the early 1980s and seeing an Eastern Airlines 75
112 MakeMinesLAX : Even if it was a "mistake", I believe the positioning of the 757 was fortuitous. By effectively enlarging size and capabilities of the 727, Boeing al
113 Tangowhisky : True. But and there is a big BUT. The fact that the 757 was too large as a mainstream 727 replacement and the 737-400 too small was all that Airbus ne
114 Zvezda : If that's true (I'm not disputing it), then we should all be very happy that Boeing made that mistake.
115 Tangowhisky : Every company makes mistakes, some are deadly, most are not but take years to correct. Boeing underestimated Airbus in the 80's and kept their eye mo
116 Johnny : "Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 103): Zvezda believes that with newer technology the cASMs could be dropped far enough to make the business plan work for
117 Stitch : Only if those passengers transit via existing hubs. If every North American passenger flying to MUC or TXL has to go first through FRA, then yes, the
118 Ikramerica : And as overall traffic numbers grow, the smaller routes become economically feasible with efficient smaller planes. If traffic numbers double, for ex
119 SirOmega : Its all about how well composite fuselages stretch. If Boeing realizes they can make a 787-10, -11, etc, and that fuselages stretch easily then they c
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