AY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 503 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14283 times:
Wow! That is exciting, I guess partly because I used to work for Finnair. If anyone can make that work, it would be the Finns. I am biased, as I lived in Finland for 3 years, love the country and people.
I wonder what their configuration will be, and maybe an increased seat pitch in Y-class as well? This really does intrigue me.
I remember in the 70's Finnair used to fly from HEL to LAX/SFO/YVR nonstop on charters, not that surprising except that it was a DC8-62 Combi, the added weight of the reinforced cargo floor alone weighed a lot.
Anyway, I will be waiting eagerly for the inaugural, and see how it does. Surely that will be a first for the 757 that distance.
Terveisia and cheers,
Carl (Kalle - AY104)
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14249 times:
Quoting AY104 (Reply 1): If anyone can make that work, it would be the Finns
That so true. And this wouldn't be the first time AY would do something spectacular on the HEL-NRT route: when Japan granted the slots at NRT in the early 80's (right?), I don't think they knew the route would be a non-stop one since no-one was allowed to fly over the Soviet Union. What AY did was they added extra fuel tanks to DC-10-30 and flew the route over North Pole avoiding Soviet airspace all together. And that was the first Western Europe - Japan non-stop flight.
Vega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14230 times:
I believe those Finnair 757-200s have P&W engines. Even with those and winglets, I do not see how they can do it non-stop without weight reduction considerations - less passengers, less cargo, etc.. Also, will the 757 lavs support a 10 hour non-stop flight with a full house? It will be (very, very) interesting to see if they can make it without a fuel stop in Beijing or ? in the event they try it with a near full load. I wouldn't want to take that flight, but the Finns are a calm lot and used to Sardine packing. Keep us up to date on what happens.
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2779 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14082 times:
When NRT's second runway opened in 2002, rumor was that AY would use its 757s to increase its frequency from two to four weekly but because of the distance involved, it would tech stop in PEK.
Why doesn't AY allocate its A343 on the NRT-HEL because it would mean the A343 land on the shorter runway and take-off off the longer. This would effectively double the capacity available per week instead of a marginal increase with the 757.
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14037 times:
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 4): Why doesn't AY allocate its A343 on the NRT-HEL because it would mean the A343 land on the shorter runway and take-off off the longer. This would effectively double the capacity available per week instead of a marginal increase with the 757.
Well until yesterday the route showed A343 starting from summer 2007 with twice weekly flights (as well as three times a week A343 to NGO). There is speculation on the Finnish aviation forum that this is just an error and it should be 4 times a week HEL-NRT-HEL with A343 and 2 times a week HEL-NGO-HEL with A343 (+ 1 weekly HEL-NGO-HEL with MD-11). Let's see...
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13722 times:
I think this is a mistake, plain and simple. The 757 simply can't stay airborne that long without stopping somewhere to refuel. The flight times given preclude a hidden tech stop (you know when you see two "direct" flights listed eg YYZ-HKG, one of them is two hours longer than the other?) as well. Someone made a mistake, this will change to 340 or M11.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Nordiclight From Finland, joined Aug 2006, 6 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13443 times:
I called to AY and they also confirmed that they will start to ops non stop HEL-NRT using B757-200. I think they will add additional fuel tanks in the plane. But they defenitly dont take any cargo o/b.
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13324 times:
Quoting Spottingpete93 (Reply 12): Is it actually scheduled for 10hrs? The reason I ask is that I have flown LHR - NRT in 10.5 hrs (this could well be a quicker than normal time) and HEL - NRT must surely be a good 2-3 hrs shorter.
Only NRT-HEL is scheduled for 10 h 25 min, not HEL-NRT which is 9 h 35 min. Of course the actual time flying is shorter. I flew HEL-KIX in 8 h 55 min with AY MD-11.
Quoting Nordiclight (Reply 13): I called to AY and they also confirmed that they will start to ops non stop HEL-NRT using B757-200.
Was the person who confirmed this someone who actually knows more about the operations (and not just AY booking agent)?
LN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13173 times:
From Boeing's website:
''For added reliability on ETOPS flights, the 757 is available with extended range features, including a backup hydraulic-motor generator and an auxiliary fan to cool equipment in the electronics bay. High-gross-weight versions of the aircraft can fly 4,500 statute miles (7,240 kilometers) nonstop with full passenger payload. ''
HEL-NRT is 4877 miles, which certainly makes it possible as Finnair will have less payload than Boeing's 240 pax calculation and in addition will have winglets, which improves the range with around 5%..
I do, however, find this as pushing the operational limits somewhat ... especially taking seasonal winds into consideration.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1515 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13122 times:
It makes sense. AY can get Narita slots, just not for their MD-11s or A340s. After the opening of the second runway, a lot of slots for 767 and smaller aircraft were made available.
4800 miles+ does sound a bit nuts. I hear AA was trying to get its 757s up to 4000 miles range, and haven't got it to that point (I'm talking about reliably perform 4000 miles with headwind, not Boeing's 4000 miles with a tailwind and no cargo).
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13079 times:
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17): After the opening of the second runway, a lot of slots for 767 and smaller aircraft were made available.
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 4): Why doesn't AY allocate its A343 on the NRT-HEL because it would mean the A343 land on the shorter runway and take-off off the longer.
I'm getting more and more doubtful, since using A343 seems much more logical. OAG timetables don't show the B752 at the moment but they don't show the 4 per week ops either. And both Finnair.com and on-line travel agent websites are already selling the flight 4 days a week from Dec 2006.
On a personal note, I'm extremely happy that AY could finally get more slots at NRT since getting myself on the twice a week flight has proven quite tricky in the past. (I've made it only once on NRT-HEL, never HEL-NRT...)
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11363 times:
Quoting Solnabo (Reply 5): HEL-NRT, 9h 30m in a 752 and 10h 15m back?!?!
Love AY but no way, thx. Give me MD-11 or 343 anytime on that route..
Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 9): I just flew LIS-EWR on a 757 (CO) and that was enough. My sentiments exactly!
Quoting KL808 (Reply 20): Though I wouldn't want to fly this route on a B752, it would probably be the longest B752 flight.
Quoting TUSflyer (Reply 21): As much as I love the 757, 9-10 hrs in one is NO vacation...
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 22): I just don't understand this point of view. You mean to tell me if you are sitting in identical seats (32" pitch, 18"wide) that you would be more comfortable on a widebody? I don't buy it.
I don't buy it either. Have you people ever been on an airplane? What is the general difference in passenger experience between a 757 and 747? You are generally stuck in the same size seat, next to the same size aisle and same size window. The only place that aisle will take you is to a bathroom that is generally the same size. The only difference is that the galley on the 747 is bigger, but the FAs get annoyed when you hang out in there anyway. You have been watching too many movies, there are no piano bars and sky lounges on the widebodies, and if there was, they could put one in the 757 too.
25 MAH4546: That route is operated with a 763, not a 757.
26 PHKLM: A widebody gives you easier aisle access, more lavs, more space to walk around, less crammed cabin (it's easier to walk around with two aisles). Just
27 Andaman: I noticed the same news on Finnair's web site last night and thought it must be an error... so, can only wait and see. AY sure is creative... like DC-