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FAA Rules Violation In Lexington Tower  
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2355 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7727 times:

This is a litttle disturbing and makes you wonder where else this is going on. Isn't the FAA trying to cut down on overtime? I read that somewhere, I thought. If so, it may have just cost a lot of lives...

WASHINGTON Aug 29, 2006 (AP)— The Federal Aviation Administration violated its own policies when it assigned only one controller to a Lexington, Ky., airport tower the morning of a fatal air crash, the agency acknowledged Tuesday.

The policy is outlined in a November 2005 directive requiring control tower observations and radar approach operations be handled separately when both responsibilities are being handled at one facility.

On Sunday, when a Comair jet crashed while trying to take off from the wrong runway, only one air traffic controller was on duty in the tower at Lexington Blue Grass Airport. Forty-nine people were killed in the crash.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown confirmed that the tower controller on duty early Sunday had to do his own job keeping track of airplanes on the ground and in the air up to a few miles away as well as radar duties.

The lone air traffic controller that morning cleared the jet for takeoff, then turned his back to do some "administrative duties" as the aircraft turned down the wrong runway, National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said at a news conference. The controller had 17 years of experience, she said.

The day after the fatal crash in Kentucky, a second controller was in the tower on the midnight-to-8 a.m. shift.

more at ABCNews.com

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

Maybe its time for the administration to stop playing around with NAtcA and the contract. I wonder if Marion Blakey thinks the money saved by throwing out all the work rules as per the contract with NATCA was worth the 49 lives?

User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3296 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7598 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
I wonder if Marion Blakey thinks the money saved by throwing out all the work rules as per the contract with NATCA was worth the 49 lives?

And this prevented the flight crew from cross-checking because...?



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 2):
And this prevented the flight crew from cross-checking because...?

That doesn't excuss the FC at all, but had the tower been staffed as per the contract and SOP for that facility there would have been a better chance for the pilots mistake to have been caught.


User currently offlineFL1TPA From United States of America, joined May 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

I agree with you both, KFLLCFII and Jdwfloyd.

Aviation disasters are the end result of a chain of mistakes that is not discovered until it's too late. The early flight in darkness is one link, the new taxiway turn that is sharper that before is another link, the unnoticed heading difference another, a lone air traffic controller preoccupied by other duties another, and other links that will undoubtedly come to light in the coming days and weeks.

I hope other ATC facilities at smaller airports that handle commercial traffic and currently operate in violation (and you know there have to be some) correct thier procedures immediately.

FL1TPA



"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

This is going to be a wake up call for the FAA and the air traffic control community. Maybe instead of trying to close down facilities at night the FAA will get money and be able to keep them open and possibly increase staff.

Last year there was discussion on closing the tower at MDT from midnight to 0500 due to lack of traffic. NY Center would handle the radar for MDT, LNS, RDG, and many smaller airports in central PA. Not a good idea in my eyes...that's a lot of airspace to watch.


User currently offlineJamesjoyce From Belgium, joined May 2004, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7227 times:

Quoting FL1TPA (Reply 4):
Aviation disasters are the end result of a chain of mistakes that is not discovered until it's too late. The early flight in darkness is one link, the new taxiway turn that is sharper that before is another link, the unnoticed heading difference another, a lone air traffic controller preoccupied by other duties another, and other links that will undoubtedly come to light in the coming days and weeks.

While all that is correct I definitely know LEX quite well. I understand what went wrong but there's such a big difference between the lit main-runway there and the unlit secondary that I am baffled how a flight-deck crew, and it seems a quite capable crew, could do that. The human link, I fear, which often is the weakest without this being any attempt to put blame anywhere.

Flying nevertheless was, is and remains the safest mode of transportation.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
Maybe its time for the administration to stop playing around with NAtcA and the contract. I wonder if Marion Blakey thinks the money saved by throwing out all the work rules as per the contract with NATCA was worth the 49 lives?

This is a straw-man argument. There was a rule in place requiring two controllers. The rule was violated. That is not an indication that more rules are needed.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
This is a straw-man argument. There was a rule in place requiring two controllers. The rule was violated. That is not an indication that more rules are needed.

Quite right, but this IS the USA, and the FAA is a Federal Government Department . . .you can bet a dozen new, and inane, rules shall surface from this disaster, when simply enforcing the ones alrady in place would suffice!

Amazingly this country - and most I'd venture - seem to think it's easier to reinvent the wheel instead of using the one they already have properly!  hypnotized 


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13035 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

Of course you are going to see an overraction of FAA/NTSB bureaucrats to cover their collective butts and members of Congress looking for an easy way to get attention that they are 'getting tough' on air safety. Of course, they won't see the 'forrest from the trees' and not make real safety changes to anticpate other reasonably expected safety risks or to adjust some of the silly counterdiction of security rules, like a strip search for evere milliliter of liquids, but bearly noting 30 lbs of electronics in your carry on.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

This will come out as part of the human factors that contribute to the accident. But the cause is still going to be the flight crew and their lack of awearness, and a cockpit cross check.

But, worst of all, we will begin seeing Congressmen and Senators running to every TV camera they can find promising to save the rest of us with the hearings they will now hold.

After all, this is an election year and they cannot let any oppertunity slip by, even if that oppertunity is the death of 49.


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Quite right, but this IS the USA, and the FAA is a Federal Government Department . . .you can bet a dozen new, and inane, rules shall surface from this disaster, when simply enforcing the ones alrady in place would suffice!



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
Of course you are going to see an overraction of FAA/NTSB bureaucrats to cover their collective butts and members of Congress looking for an easy way to get attention that they are 'getting tough' on air safety.

This is that "Coffin Mentality" I speak of so often when it coems to the FAA....They do nothing or enforce nothing until people die....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 2):
And this prevented the flight crew from cross-checking because...?

.

As a 25 year plus airline Captain I take issue with your statement. Safety is a chain. No accident is one factor but many items being missed to lead to an event. "IF" the tower had been manned properly there is a chance this could have prevented the accident just as easily as the crew realizing their error. Airliners fly with a crew of TWO not because the company feels we need company on a long flight. When things are going well a single pilot could as easily fly a 747-400. However, it is the second pilot that is needed to backup the other and make sure there are two sets of eyes and thoughts propeling the airplane through the air. If we need that second set of eyes would it not make sense to need the second set of eyes working with the controller?

Take the USAir/Skywest accident in LAX several years ago. The controller was distracted by a taxiing Mexicana aircraft that had made a wrong turn. Forgot about putting the SKYW into TIPAH at an intersection. This resulted in a collision. The US pilots had no ability to see the Metroliner as it was blended into the centerline of the runway.

Your simplification of this event shows a lack of practical experience in operations. Get some time under your belt. Walk a mile and then tell us where the errors occured as I am sure you will never make any.

Sorry for the rant but this is enough of the couch potato experts on this issue.


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2355 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6954 times:

The puzzling thing to me is the lone controller in the tower is quoted as saying he turned his back to take care of some "administrative duties." At that time in the morning, with a jet set for TO, what administrative duties could there be that could not wait until he monitored the airplane through takeoff?

Maybe some controllers can shead some light. Or is this cover-my-butt code for "cup of coffee."


User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6903 times:

Is there any regulation that the controler handling a flight MUST observe the entire movement with his own eyes, including TO?
As long as the controler did not misregard any regulation he probably now wishes he had watched the plane, probably has sleepless nights and quite a load to live with, on the human side, but as long as he didn't break a rule he could have grabbed some coffee.

It would be interesting to know why the pilots with all their experience did not notice the possibility of a runway screw-up when reading the charts and then paying extra attention. The taxiway passes by the beginnin of 26 and leads to 22. Sure should be possible to count how many runway intersections you pass on your way and double check that with the chart... In a previous thread about this crash some crewmember confirmed the possibility of taking 26 for 22 in LEX, but crews are trained for paying extra attention when things get tricky. Otherwise any L and R configuration would be dangerous, as they even the same numbers written on them, and when it's dark, who can tell if you are on L or on R... There should have been the extra 2 eyes Mcdu mentioned, the ones from the PNF to doublecheck.

This is not meant to blame the pilots, but I think this is one of the biggest "why" in this case.



Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
The puzzling thing to me is the lone controller in the tower is quoted as saying he turned his back to take care of some "administrative duties." At that time in the morning, with a jet set for TO, what administrative duties could there be that could not wait until he monitored the airplane through takeoff?

I asked pretty much the same question in thread 2, this subject, and member ATCO damn near crapped himself.

I have to wonder - at 6:00am, other than Radar perhaps - at LEX (this is not JFK, IAH, YVR, LHR afterall) just what was so pressing that the controller couldn't have taken 30 seconds to watch the departure . . . or at least watch the a/c lineup for departure.

Controllers are busy people - no matter where they are really - and I have nothing respect for those folks - but along with asking questions of the lone surviving crewmember (when he's able) the controller has some answering to do as well IMO.


User currently offlineSpruit From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 12):
Your simplification of this event shows a lack of practical experience in operations. Get some time under your belt. Walk a mile and then tell us where the errors occured as I am sure you will never make any.

Couldn't agree more, it's a chain of events that leads to an accident! More than berating the Flight Crew and/or the tower we need to learn from the mistakes of others!

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
Maybe some controllers can shead some light. Or is this cover-my-butt code for "cup of coffee."

I'm sure the tower controller wasn't getting a cup of coffee when this tragedy occured and I'm SURE that what ever he was doing, it won't be enough to stop him from re-living the last moments of 49 people over and over in his mind!

Let's try and show some compassion!

Spru!



E=Mc2
User currently offlineVEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6883 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
The puzzling thing to me is the lone controller in the tower is quoted as saying he turned his back to take care of some "administrative duties." At that time in the morning, with a jet set for TO, what administrative duties could there be that could not wait until he monitored the airplane through takeoff

Maybe some controllers can shead some light. Or is this cover-my-butt code for "cup of coffee."

Another part of the complicated human factor. While not excusable, it's easy to see how the controller probably wouldn't have expected an experienced crew to line up and takeof on a shorter unlit runway and therefore didn't think watching the entire procedure was necessary.
This accident should be a stern reminder that complacency is a very real downside to an increasingly reliable and routine event like commercial aviation, and that we as humans are vulnerable by our nature.


User currently offlineCM767 From Panama, joined Dec 2004, 651 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 12):
Your simplification of this event shows a lack of practical experience in operations. Get some time under your belt. Walk a mile and then tell us where the errors occured as I am sure you will never make any.

Well said. There is no doubt in my mind, that the pilots were misled by construction on the ground, some jumped to blame the pilots before any facts were out. A mistake that seems so obvious to us on paper, could and must probably would in fact have many other issues that contributed to the accident.



But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
User currently offlineATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
This will come out as part of the human factors that contribute to the accident. But the cause is still going to be the flight crew and their lack of awearness, and a cockpit cross check.

As a pilot and controller I think situational awareness will play a critical role in the outcome of this investigation. It's too hard to think that a captain that had been to LEX 6 times and a FO that had been there 10 times in the last few years made such a critical and ultimately tragic mistake.

Regardless of the new taxiway layout, there were still signs up and the active runway was lit. All the holes lined up for one massive tragedy.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
At that time in the morning, with a jet set for TO, what administrative duties could there be that could not wait until he monitored the airplane through takeoff?

Traffic count. That's a true administrative duty and it's gotta get done sometime why not when it's slow.


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2355 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting Spruit (Reply 16):
I'm sure the tower controller wasn't getting a cup of coffee when this tragedy occured and I'm SURE that what ever he was doing, it won't be enough to stop him from re-living the last moments of 49 people over and over in his mind!

Let's try and show some compassion

I am compassionate, but this is an aviation discussion forum, and I am trying to discuss this portion of the accident. Common everyday habits, while 99% of the time can be harmless, but that one percent, when you are alone, at an airport that is not very busy, could lead to a terrible tragedy.

I bring up the point, because FAA regs are that two controllers are to be in the tower. One is supposed to observe the aircraft transit the taxiways and line up on the runway. this was admittedly not done because "his back was turned to take care of administrative duties."

Yes, it is a chain of events. The construction, the PIC, SIC, lighting, staffing tower procedures. All fell down in this case. I have utmost respect for everyone who puts their butts on the line to make my travels safe, I am just puzzled by this particular glaring error.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6704 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
I wonder if Marion Blakey thinks the money saved by throwing out all the work rules as per the contract with NATCA was worth the 49 lives?

It'll be a political football that will ultimately cost the airlines more money to support a bureaucracy whose ineptitude and mismanagement indirectly led to 49 fatalities. ATC should be privatized immediately.

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 12):
Your simplification of this event shows a lack of practical experience in operations. Get some time under your belt. Walk a mile and then tell us where the errors occured as I am sure you will never make any.

I don't think he was being rude to you with that, but his point is sound--the ultimate and final decision and error falls on the pilot in this case. that's not a slam on him and isn't meant to be disrespectful, it's a statement of fact.

The human factors contributing to that error certainly are in play, as with this FAA staffing violation. But the most basic SEL pilot with limited practical experience would look at their compass, check heading, verify rwy, etc, before taking off, much less wouldn't do so in the dark with no runway lighting.


User currently offlineDjw030468 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6695 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):

Even as a private pilot, I was taught one BASIC rule about aircraft accidents...There is ALWAYS a 'CHAIN OF EVENTS' and if the FAA had the tower staffed as they SHOULD have and were MANDATED to do...the CHAIN MAY have been broken and LIVES would have been SPARED!

Shame on YOU FAA! Once again beauracracy has failed us!


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

I can remenber my Ops days here at MSY, and visiting the ATC tower here during many a midnight shift. During the vast majority of those visits the tower was capably and safely staffed by.....one person.

I'm with ATCGod on this one.....it's all about situational awareness.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
Or is this cover-my-butt code for "cup of coffee."

Rather than slam you for a statement I will simply say, I hope that you never have to experience a situation such as this in your business career and if so that someone isn't looking over your shoulder thinking you're covering your butt!

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 13):
The puzzling thing to me is the lone controller in the tower is quoted as saying he turned his back to take care of some "administrative duties." At that time in the morning, with a jet set for TO, what administrative duties could there be that could not wait until he monitored the airplane through takeoff?

Now look at the airport diagram.....Runway 26 is closer to the ramp than Runway 22, so possibly the time it takes (from experience in the tower) to taxi from the ramp to the assigned departure runway was thought to be enough time to take care of the administrative duty, not expecting the aircraft to unexpectedly use Runway 26...not making excuses just being realistic.....from my own personal experiences.

Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 19):
Traffic count. That's a true administrative duty and it's gotta get done sometime why not when it's slow.

Don't forget the beloved logging of items and many other things......and slow time for sure is when that gets done. Ahhh but what about the chance the controller actually was issuing another clearance to someone else and transmitting on all the tower frequencies simultanouesly, or an ATIS to get done as I wouldn't think LEX would have a digital ATIS......and who knows what else.

Very easy to point at many organizations for violations of this reg or that reg, or bash a beaurocratic entity, after lives have been lost in a tragic event such as this. NOW, once again it is time to bring issues to the table with those organizations which control the purse strings and stomp on their desks until the cost cutting is eliminated in safety related fields such as flight training, maint, air traffic control, airport construction and many more....just what is the cost of a life these days?

Bottom line is this folks plain and simple....WHY? As a pilot if I am not certain of why I don't see runway lights guess what, I'm gonna stop and ask, VERIFY.....if I am the least bit uncertain of a taxi route or construction, I'm gonna stop and ask, VERIFY! As a controller if I am not sure that a taxi route is clear guess what, I am gonna VERIFY that it is understood by the crew! All WHYs in my mind.

[Edited 2006-08-30 17:46:10]


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
25 Post contains links ATCGOD : No, seriously...it was traffic count as reported in this MSNBC article. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14574723/
26 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Okay, and we all know how accurate this stuff is. I was only hoping to add to the list, my own ignorance from not having seen the article.
27 SPREE34 : One (1) Controller, working Clearance Delivery combined at Ground Control combined at Local Control combined with RADAR. "Administrative duties" coul
28 Commavia : Wasn't one of the biggest FAA arguments against outsourcing some airport control towers that they were the safer, more secure choice?
29 ATCGOD : It's about all we can go on right now, isn't it? This is a quote from NTSB lead investigator Hersman. How can we not assume this is correct? 'Then,
30 IAHFLYR : Thanks for the info! I b smarter now, not much but every little bit helps.
31 TVNWZ : Overall, fairly accurate in my opinion. So, what would a traffic count be? Maybe he was lining up the next hours departures and landings? I thought t
32 ATCGOD : Traffic count is a function where literally the controllers will tally (using the flight strips) their traffic count within a specified time period a
33 IAHFLYR : haha...u didn't pal, I was offering myself as the sacrificial lamb!!
34 TVNWZ : Just what it says..got it. So, now it begs this questions: Is it standard procedure to do a traffic count while you are directing traffic? Or would yo
35 ATCGOD : Where I come from our trainees do that for us. It's not a glamorous job but an important one. But like I said in the post before it's possible he was
36 Spruit : I understand what you are saying but the tower controller had given his clearances and although was distracted from watching the takeoff has no blame
37 Skaggs : This had ZERO to do with this accident. The controller could have been playing X-Box and it would have nothing to do with this incident. Please, at 06
38 ATCGOD : Which happens often too!
39 TCFC424 : I agree with what most people are voicing here. I think that we all need to understand, however, that as the investigation continues, more pieces of t
40 SANFan : Let's not forget the incident at SEA/TAC some months ago when, in the middle of the night, 2 arriving a/c were unable to raise the single controller o
41 Gh123 : Exactly - they might seem simple but they save lives. I was always taught: Checklist, Checklist, Trim. Anyone else have any others?
42 SkepticAll : Working solo in an air traffic control tower during less than peak hours was in the past anyway, quite common place. During those periods when I worke
43 ATCGOD : I disagree somewhat. Even in my military days you were always required, even when wing flying was down, to have two controllers. One line controller
44 TVNWZ : But, it did violate the FAA rules. I assume those rules were established for some reason, and possibly to ensure what happened in Lexington would not
45 Post contains images ATCGOD :
46 YULWinterSkies : Well, this is another mistake that probably happened... You usually don't get an accident because of one mistake but because of two or more... See, a
47 Nkops : It's typical government action.... to be reactive instead of proactive (it seems thats the way they do traffic lights around here!!) The question I h
48 Post contains links Starrion : New reports also show that the crew not only lined up on the wrong runway but also powered up the wrong aircraft before boarding began. http://www.cnn
49 ATCGOD : I'd say it's more likely than not the facility manager will be reprimanded in some way for this.
50 Nkops : That could have been due to an aircraft swap also... that happens often.. I still want to know what "administrative duties " are though.
51 JBirdAV8r : James, I see that you don't fly for a living, so I'm going to assume that you've never flown while -tired-. I have, perhaps stupidly, and my brain ha
52 ADB1 : Would it help pilots if the length of the runway available to them (either at the end, or at any entry point along its length) was marked on the numer
53 JetBlueGuy2006 : I personally dont think this should all be blamed on the Capt. or F/O. I mean, when he gets well, yes he will have to answer the simple question "why"
54 JBirdAV8r : There are runway distance remaining markers on quite a few runways; however, not all runways are required to use them. Also different combinations of
55 10000MOH : Did the controller clear the flight onto the wrong runway? That would be a terrible error deserving a lot of attention.
56 TVNWZ : Doesn't Honeywell make a piece of equipment that announces runways or keeps you from going astray? Isn't it installed in the bigger jets? I thought I
57 TCFC424 : Everyone keeps blaming the controller. It is not the controller's responsibility to verify the aircraft is on the correct runway. It is his responsibi
58 MCOflyer : I agree with you 100%. I do hope he pulls through 100% and can provide some sort of info. MCOflyer
59 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : Guys I just thought of something, unfortunately this situation has happened before across the pond. A few years back in Germany a lone center controll
60 5mileBob : Additional information from CNN: A longtime pilot familiar with Blue Grass Airport told the Lexington newspaper that the airport is confusing and gett
61 Post contains images Iahflyr : How do you know they were? Had someone questioned something that was weird we wouldn't be posting of this terrible event, just 1 verification from ei
62 DMAJ7TH : something here bothers me. in the upcoming weeks, folks are going to try and place at least half blame on ATC for this accident. i've spoken with my c
63 SLCUT2777 : Lets blame the ATC in the tower, lets blame the Captain (sadly deceased with 47 PAX & one young--only age 27--F/A) and the First Officer. I think it i
64 Post contains images Gh123 : This is runway 22, before it was re-surfaced. This is a picture of the airfield, taking off from 22 (26 intersecting 22 from L-R)
65 Gh123 : Just thought I might add the following: According to FARAIM Although ATC clearance is issued by the Controller for taxiing purposes...................
66 Post contains images ATCme : As far as I know there isn't any rule against turning your back for T/O, or any other phase of a flight. I'm sure that even though the controller did
67 Gh123 : Exactly. I'm not a controller, I'm a pilot. But I support the controllers here. ATC has the duties I've quoted above. They are not nannies. If a pilo
68 Nudelhirsch : There is the point. Two rwys, close to each other, easy to mess up... Take an extra look at your charts and the compasses... I just watched a cockpit
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