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Pilot Locked Out Of Cockpit On Air Canada Plane  
User currently offlineEksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1317 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20534 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...a9dd60-18a9-4155-a6bb-8a8e8976bc04

Quote:"Pilot locked out of cockpit after bathroom break

Mike Edgell
Global National

Wednesday, August 30, 2006

WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.

It happened aboard an Air Canada Jazz flight on Saturday, and the company confirmed to Global National yesterday it is conducting an internal investigation into the incident that took place on the Bombardier CRJ-100 carrying as many as 50 passengers from Ottawa to Winnipeg."


World Wide Aerospace Photography
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20476 times:

so like was the other pilot too lazy to open the door or something?

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20454 times:

Better than being locked in the bathroom, I guess.

User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1073 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20431 times:

now, thats interesting...
where was the other pilot?
plane flying on autopilot with no one in cockpit?
how did they force the door from the hinges? thought thats what shouldnt be possible?

must have been a comfortable flight for the 50 pax. seeing the pilot struggle to get back to his place...



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20374 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
so like was the other pilot too lazy to open the door or something?



Quoting Macc (Reply 3):
where was the other pilot?
plane flying on autopilot with no one in cockpit?

Dont the rules state that at least one pilot should always be sat at the controls during a flight, with no exceptions?

Thats probably why they had to take the doors off the hinges, the PF wasnt allowed to leave the controls.

Fairly extreme case, but still, rules are rules.


User currently offlineJamesjoyce From Belgium, joined May 2004, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 20333 times:

Quoting Eksath (Thread starter):
WINNIPEG - An Air Canada pilot who left the flight deck to visit the washroom found himself locked out of the cockpit when he tried to return -- forcing the crew to remove the door from its hinges.

Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.


User currently offlineSpruit From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 20315 times:

Sounds like more media sensationalism to me!

But hey it's not like we're not all used to that is it!

Spru!



E=Mc2
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 20251 times:

The door probably jammed shut. Had a good few sticky doors already.

I don't think the hinges can be removed inflight with any ease. Its the media so take it with a 777F full of salt.

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 5):
Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.

Hahaha  Smile I've said for ages now that the FD should have its own Lavatory, heck if you put an oven and a chiller in there too there would never be a reason to go in during normal ops  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2808 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 20236 times:

Quoting Macc (Reply 3):
must have been a comfortable flight for the 50 pax. seeing the pilot struggle to get back to his place...

Sounds like scene right out of "Airplane!"


User currently offlineMdaigle From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20030 times:

There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot, so he/she may have popped the hinges from inside the cockpit. I don't know the design of the door, but the hinges may be accessible from the cockpit side.

Michel


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19735 times:

Quoting Mdaigle (Reply 9):
There was a FA in the cockpit with the co-pilot, so he/she may have popped the hinges from inside the cockpit. I don't know the design of the door, but the hinges may be accessible from the cockpit side.

Michel

Yup, when one of the pilots is using the lav, an F/A must be in the cockpit (except in 3-person crewed cockpits which are almost non-existent nowadays).


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19690 times:

Quoting Jamesjoyce (Reply 5):
Henceforth all AC-aircraft will now be equipped with a bucket in the cockpit.

Wow, a pisser in an RJ is damn near one up on the LittleJohn as it is!


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9827 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19690 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 7):
The door probably jammed shut. Had a good few sticky doors already.

The door probably failed somehow and would not open. So the pilot probably was essentially locked out. Mechanisms can fail. I'm a guessing that they needed a bit of engenuity to get back in the cockpit.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19639 times:

This for me was the interesting quote:

Eventually, the crew forced the door open by taking the door off its hinges completely



A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineGh123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19639 times:

Maybe one of pilots was a woman!?!?!

What a farce!


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19613 times:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Having both pilots at the flight deck for landing is a lot less risky than having a secure cockpit door.

The cockpit doors aren't designed to be break-open proof, but rather open-proof for 1/2 hr to 1 hr, which is almost always long enough for a crew to divert to avert a highjacking attempt.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19583 times:

Quoting YOW (Reply 15):
but rather open-proof for 1/2 hr to 1 hr

Ahh. OK.

Hoorah for the cabin crew.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineVIflyer From US Virgin Islands, joined May 1999, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19545 times:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 13):
This for me was the interesting quote:


Eventually, the crew forced the door open by taking the door off its hinges completely


A terrorist with a lot of time on his hands and was (impossibly) invisible, could enter the cockpit quite readily with a screwdriver and some elbow grease?

Also the door can only be taken off the hinges easily from the inside the cockpit (without power tools and about, as said earlier, a couple of hours of free time). It's a escape feature if the escape hatch is inoperative during a accident.

Vi



I reject your reality and subsitute my own
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19509 times:

You allways have to have 2 people in the cockpit so the fa was up there. They probably accessed the hinges from the inside of the cockpit. They are designed to be difficult to break into not out of.

User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 19412 times:

"There's sloppiness, there's inconsistency, and there are vulnerabilities that terrorists are going to notice, and they're going to see it and say this is easy pickings."



What a bunch of horse sh:t. The media is trying to say that Air Canada is sloppy and therefor giving terrorists ideas. The only one I see giving terrorists ideas is who ever wrote this article. It was a nonevent. It is not news worthy. Yes the people on airliners.net find it interesting but to the public at large no one cares. The Media needs to stop this sensationalistic bullsh;t!!


User currently offlineAIRCANL1011 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 19209 times:

The pilot "can be taken hostage by someone in the plane with hostile intent," said Peter St. John, a Winnipeg-based security analyst.

Couldn't someone with "hostile intent" take the pilot hostage when he is on his way to the lav under normal conditions.

This is a guy who lives with doubt and suspicion all his life and can find a problem waiting to happen with any situation. These guys need to sit down and shut up. They are the terrorists best weapon because they spread fear where there is no need for it.

Peter St. John you are as bad a any terrorist!!!!



CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 794 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 19127 times:

The new security cockpit door on the CRJ does have issues with getting stuck from time to time. Usually just give it a good bump and it will become dislodged. If not, there are pins on the inside that will allow it to be removed from the hinges. It is also quite easy to put the door back on the hinges. All CRJ pilots have been trained on this. The pilot still in the cockpit just had to show the FA how to do it to get the door open.

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. You'd think the media has more important stuff to report but this is pick on the airlines week.

727forever



727forever
User currently offlineAeroman444 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18083 times:

All you need is half a tennis ball to get in there anyway.  Smile

User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 17418 times:

Boy, it's a good thing the FO didn't have to land the airplane.... idiot media.

As has been stated before, the hinge release mechanisms are inside the cockpit. I believe instead this proves how sturdy the cockpit door is in the event of an attempted cockpit intrusion. This gives the crew plenty of time to go to full lock down... and in the event they finally do get into the cockpit they will get a nice welcome of a crash axe, gun, or both.  Smile Anyone who attempts to break into a cockpit that is not welcome has forfeited their life.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16924 times:

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 20):
Couldn't someone with "hostile intent" take the pilot hostage when he is on his way to the lav under normal conditions.

If I was on a flight to Winnipeg, I'd be hostile too.  duck 



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
25 Post contains images Gr8Circle : How did you come to such a conclusion?
26 Skyslave : The rules state that if a pilot of a 2 crew aircraft has to leave the controls for any reason, the other pilot has to wear his quick donning oxygen m
27 CrossChecked : Good point. Everyone, keep your eyes open for invisible terrorists.
28 Jamesbuk : Well why didnt they open the door from the inside? also all aircrafts ive been on have a little security code to the right of the door, why didnt he
29 Post contains images MSPCRJ200 :
30 Post contains images Ewmahle : This would almost work, but wait, TSA does not allow bottled liquids on board the aircraft.
31 Gr8Circle : Oh, come on....obviously the door would not have been operable from both sides.....do you seriously think that a pilot and FA inside the cockpit woul
32 BillReid : Did someone say the acft was going to Winterpeg?
33 YWG : LOL, it's not winter here just yet.... METAR CYWG 302200Z 14020G26KT 15SM FEW180 SCT270 BKN300 27/14 A2988 RMK AC1CI3CI1 SLP120=
34 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Was just there last weekend... not a bad place Grapes has some great chicken wings. The girls in canada... well... oh yes. It's what it's all aboot.
35 Greasespot : Hinges on INSIDE of door. Canada...No guns in the cockpit, which is a good thing There is a switch which disables the key pad during flight. I mean h
36 YWG : It's why I love living it Winnipeg my man, it often brings a tear to my eye.
37 XFSUgimpLB41X : Incorrect. A firearm is a considerable added safety measure. The ability to successfully deliver a fatal blow to an intruder may be a bit difficult.
38 CF188A : a little unfortunate some generalizing is going on here .... towards one of the best if not the best airline in the world. Or wait, could it possibly
39 Post contains images Greasespot : Your opinion....not mine. I trust the door to keep people out.. Heck in this case it kept the pilot out.....Not to discount the fact that all passeng
40 Usair320 : Not exactly. On Trans-atlantics and Trans-pacifics the FD is equipped with a Capt. F/O and F/O(internatinal officer) the IO flies during either of th
41 Post contains images Cusaeng : and the door got locked on the fo way out .... sure it did mile high club anyone ?
42 Comairguycvg : But in the CRJ aircraft, the pilots seats are close enough to the cockpit door that the pilot can stay in the seat and turn around to open the door w
43 Post contains images Flyboy14295 : What If the FA was a man
44 FlyDreamliner : After 9/11, do you think the passengers will ever allow anyone to overtake an airplane again? If the door can hold up half an hour, that's plenty of
45 XFSUgimpLB41X : Since the door was taken off it's hinges, that means that the door was opened from inside the cockpit.
46 LesMainwaring : It amazes me that people blame the media for sensationlizing when they read articles or watch the television with the attention span of a four-year ol
47 Positiverate : The bigger issue here is the nightmare of sitting on a CRJ for almost 1100 miles!
48 Post contains links and images B742 : BBC Story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5301172.stm Glad to hear the crew and passengers are ok Rob!
49 Airfoilsguy : Its nice to see that someone can report the news in a factual matter without all the hype. I am not feeding the beast, the beast is feeding on the ig
50 Post contains images YWG : I'm sorry to hear that. If NWA had went with AC ground services, that wouldn't be an issue now would it
51 Hmmmm... : Openng the cockpit door to use the lav, or for any other reason, is a huge compromise of security. What is the point of locking a door, if you open it
52 Apodino : Thats why airlines have specific procedures in place for opening the cockpit door in flight. I am not going to explain them here for security reasons
53 Post contains images Fly727 : RM
54 HAWK21M : True. Thanks for not going into details. regds MEL
55 Hmmmm... : Nice try. Oh, ya, there is some secret trip wire that sets off all kinds of Indiana Jones flying darts and a giant boulder comes racing down to crush
56 Post contains images Tod : OEM or aftermarket? Many 744 are configured that way. Tod
57 Post contains images Mika : So could a terrorist who could turn himself into water and slide underneath the door, eventually materializing in the cockpit.
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