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One Step Closer To SAN-LGW Nonstop  
User currently offlineScooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 854 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2757 times:

FYI, here's something that appeared in a local paper. Looks promising!

-Scott

By Ronald W. Powell
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
September 27, 2000
The tolling bell of Big Ben and the changing of the guard at Buckingham
Palace could be a couple of hours nearer to San Diego County residents
next year when British Airways is expected to launch nonstop service
from Lindbergh Field to London.
The daily flight would replace the current British Airways route, which
requires a stop in Phoenix on the way to London's Gatwick Airport and
on the return trip.
"We're 99 percent sure we're going to get it, but we don't have a start
date," said Rita Vandergaw, a spokeswoman for the San Diego Unified
Port District.
Officials of the Port District, which operates Lindbergh Field, have
been in talks with the British airline for several months.
British Airways officials could not be reached for comment yesterday.
Besides the convenience of direct access, port officials and travel
agents hope the nonstop flight is a sign of recognition from air
carriers that San Diego is coming of age as a transportation center.
Excluding service to Canada and Mexico, Lindbergh Field has no nonstop
international flights.
A short runway and the physical obstacle of Point Loma are part of the
problem. Aircraft such as the 400-passenger Boeing 747, which provides
service to London through Phoenix, cannot take off fully loaded with
passengers and cargo from Lindbergh. And it is not in the financial
interest of airlines to send partially full planes on transcontinental
flights.
But British Airways is planning to use the newer, smaller Boeing 777
for the nonstop London flight, according to port officials. That
aircraft can carry 330 passengers and a full load of cargo when taking
off from Lindbergh.
Thella Bowens, the Port District's senior director of aviation, said
British Airways officials are confident there are enough business
travelers to support the daily nonstop flight. While tourist trade is
seasonal, business people travel year-round.
Those in the travel business like the idea of a more streamlined
journey.
Eric Munro, president of Travelwise International, a Midway-area travel
business, said the current daily flight to London creates hardships for
San Diegans.
Federal regulations require that passengers returning from overseas
must submit to inspections by the U.S. Customs Service, the Immigration
and Naturalization Service and agriculture inspectors at the point of
entry into the United States. For San Diegans returning from London,
that means a two-hour delay in Phoenix while their bags and the
jetliner are inspected.
"It's not a nightmare, but it's an inconvenience," Munro said. "You
have to take out all of your bags from where you've pushed them into
the overhead bins."
Munro said the nonstop flight would make it easier for San Diego County
residents to connect in London to flights to other points in Europe.
With a healthy mix of business people, seniors, students, teachers and
European immigrants, he is confident the service can be successful.
"I think it can sell here," Munro said. "We're a big city that now has
a lot of high-tech companies. They do a lot of traveling."
Sue Buettner, branch manager for Hillcrest's Carefree Vacation travel
agency, said she believes the San Diego region has grown enough to
support the nonstop flight.
"We're still regarded as a sleepy Navy town," Buettner said. "When you
ask (the airlines) about providing more nonstop flights, they say we
already have Los Angeles and San Francisco. They want to know why we
need another gateway (airport) in California."
She called Great Britain a "hot destination" and said the nonstop
flight would make it easier for her and other travel agents to sell
tickets to London.
Dave Evans, assistant manager at Little Italy's Princess Pub and
Grille, said such service would make it easier for him to visit his
mother and sister in his native Liverpool. Evans said he has not been
home since he moved to San Diego four years ago.
"The flight to England is 12 hours, and a nonstop flight would make it
easier to travel," he said.


21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2658 times:


Sounds really interesting. But how about that flight to PHX then ?? No demand for that one or a separate flight ?

B737-700


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

I'd be surprised if BA stopped the PHX-LGW, especially since Lufthansa just announced a PHX-FRA flight. I think they'll just change it to a 777 flight from the 744.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

BA will definitely keep the PHX flight, given that valuable codeshare with America West. I hope that a nonstop flight to Europe could spurn some competition here at SAN. Would SAN-LGW be San Diego's first intercontinental flight?

SANman: Hey, you're new here. I assume you are from San Diego . I live in La Jolla. How about you?

Aaron G.


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Yup, SAN's first intercontinental flight. Hopefully this will bring more international flights to SAN.

Trvlr: Yup, I live in teh San Diego area, the best place in the world to live   I actually live in Escondido, ack! Rather be living in La Jolla.


User currently offlinePurdue Arrow From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1574 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

It would be great to get this made into a non-stop... that would be a big boost to our area!

Isn't SD the best? I love living there - I can never wait to get back on school breaks. I'll be back in SD next weekend for "Octoberbreak". I'm from Poway, but I did a lot of flying over Escondido during my CFI training this summer. I actually met an air traffic controller at the Purdue tower last week who was not only from San Diego, but from Poway, and was a senior at PHS my freshman year! What a small world!


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

Well good thing SAN is getting a new international gate facility, which is supposed to be opened Aug. 2001. Isn't it convinient that it's in Terminal 2 East? I think Aeromexico will be moved over to Terminal 2, according to what a press release from the PSD said.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

There is a model of the new customs building in the old part of T2 at SAN, and the caption near it says that the new facility will be able to handle either 2 747-sized aircraft or 3 757-sized aircraft. It will also be able to handle a 777, 757, and A320/737 at the same time also because there are models of those at the gates. The 777 is in a British Airways livery, which I thought could be a hint of things to come. Since London seems pretty much in the bag, I think Tokyo should be next, with a 777 by either UA, ANA, or JAL (maybe LR when they get some).

Aaron G>


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Ya, but the question is do those airlines want to start flights to SAN? Will it be worth it?
Too bad LH decided not to start flights from FRA to SAN...

Trvlr: Heh, I just decided to look at your info, and I realized that you were a 10th grader just like me  What school do you go to?


User currently offlineAA-SAN From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Now, after taking BA to LGW twice, I'll really miss the stop in PHX... not!!! Hopefully this will bring some more carriers here. Hey all you SD chatters, nice to know there are a lot of you out there... now if we could just get an airport to fit the size of the awesome city.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

I bet airlines would probably take the chance to add nonstop flights from SAN to the far east and Europe if there were adquate facilities, which there haven't been until now with the takeoff length capabilities of the 777 and the new customs facility. I am glad that the PHX stop will be eliminated.

As far as Lufthansa goes, I have little doubt that
SAN would have been in front of Phoenix in the choice by LH to add new cities in the western U.S. if S.D. had a better airport.

SANman: I go to La Jolla Country Day School near the Golden Triangle. What about you?

To All: Did any of you hear about the report the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG) released last week about how the San Diego region will be affected if a new airport site is not found? If facilities stay the way they are, San Diego stands to lose about 8.3 billion dollars by 2030. That sucks.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Trvlr: OMG! I must hate you forever, because I go to Francis Parker! j/k but still, GO LANCERS!

Ya, i'm sure there would be a ton of airlines flying in out of San Diego, if we had a better airport. Sucks that San Diego could lose that much money. So where do you think we should build a new airport? (I know this topic has come up several times in this forum)


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Francis Parker?!!? I turn up my nose at you!  
I have been there once, at night, for an "Academic League" match. You guys are pretty smart. What is your mascot again? It is probably better than ours, since almost anything could beat a tree (Torres).

I think the new airport should be built at Miramar, and according to the SANDAG report a lot of top companies here in San Diego think so too, but I feel that there would be immense political pressure from the surrounding areas (millionaires in La Jolla need to have their beaty sleep!! ) and that even it may be too small for S.D.'s and Southern California's future needs.

I should start a new topic on that report. If you want to read it, go to this website....

http://www.sandag.cog.ca.us/whats_new/#pubs

....and click on "Draft Airport Economic Analysis Report". It is in the form of Adobe Acrobat Reader, but I was able to print it out regularly. Anyway, I read it, and some parts are pretty interesting. It is 93 pages in all, and it can get a bit tedious. Just so you know that I DO have a life, however, I read it during the 10 hour bus ride I had between San Diego and southern Utah when part of my grade went on an "Outdoor Education" (do you guys have that?) trip there.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Heh, I was at the academic league match, but i don't remember what the people looked like there. Maybe if you and I join it again (I'll probably be forced into it again, don't ask), we'll see each other some time   Actually, we got our only win from you guys i think...

I better get started reading this, who needs to do hw?!?!?!  



User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

I will probably join it this year. The things I do for a full college transcript....
There is a picture of me in the "Self Pictures" topic of the non-aviation forum. I doubt you'll recognize me because when I was there I wore glasses (more visible than in this picture) and had a retainer. All I remember about the Francis Parker team is that there were a lot of South Asian people there that blew the pants off of us. I don't think the LJCDS team did too well throughout the rest of the year, either; we may have gotten one or two wins though.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

We're you on the novice team? I don't think there were that many Asian people... maybe 2 or 3...

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Yeah, I was on the novice team....it is the only one you can be on as a 9th grader. I'll probably make JV this year.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2456 times:

Sorry to break up the reunion. I notice from the UK CAA website that the SAN sector loaded 85,000 onto the BA flight, and the PHX sector loaded around 135,000 pax in 1999(if my memory serves me right). Some good numbers, but Pittsburgh hit those sorts of figures with the daily BA 767 and that route was dropped. There is no replacement for yield.

I was down at Brown Field last year. I understand that they are trying to turn it into a freight airport. Has the city sold the airport yet?


User currently offlineSANman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2448 times:

I don't think the city intends to sell the airport, but just let developers do the developing. The Brown Field proposal still needs to have the city council approval, and I don't think the EIR is done either. Hopefully the proposal will get approved, because I'm pretty sure local companies would rather ship things thrugh a local airport than send it to LAX or ONT.



User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Certainly, experiencing the amazing volume of road traffic that comes from the border crossing near Tijuana suggests that there is a freight role for Brown Field.

I was amazed to note that you could see the tails of aircraft taxi-ing behind the US/Mexican border at Tijuana Airport.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Brown Field will never fly as either a commercial or cargo airport. Otay Mountain on the east is too high and prohibits a commerical airport being built on Otay Mesa (ask Reba McIntire's late band members). The cargo proposals mean take offs to and landings from the west. Sorry, but they won't fit into existing naval and commerical air traffic patterns. A missed approach from the west to Brown, will totally mess with the Lindbergh flight patterns.

San Diego's airport answer is Rodriguez on the Mexican side of the border.

As for the teeny bopper session in this thread, exchange email addresses and get off this forum.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (13 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Bicoastal: Us "teeny boppers" certainly aren't hindering the discussion of the subject at hand, so just lay off, ok?

I think a big part of the fact that the San Diego yields are low is that the British Airways flight is almost no different from any other flight that San Diegans would take to Europe except that the same plane is used on the route. The fact that this new flight will be nonstop will probably entice many more people to use it (including high-fare business travelers) rather than connect in another American city, like people have to do with United, American, Delta, Continental, etc. Because of the relatively low yields that are occurring now, however, I think that it may be better for BA to open the nonstop route as maybe a three or four-times a week at first flight rather than daily.

Aaron G.


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