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Egyptair (new) Domestic Subsidiary..!  
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Hey Horus , Abu el cabaten , as per our discussion in the other thread , Egyptair Chairman has indicated that MS is planning to start a new subsidiary that will take over Egyptair's domestic routes .
He also indicated that this new subsidiary will start at the beginning of 2007 with 6 90 seat regional jets on order .
Please comment and clarify , thanks my friends  Smile


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12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Thanks for starting a new thread MSYYZ, I just didn't anyone to complain that the other thread went off topic.

Regarding the new carrier, the Dutch Embassy in Cairo (strange source but hey) reported in July that the national carrier (MS) would launch a LCC in March07 with 5 Airbus aircraft. This was soon dismissed by the airline execs. I was told a purely domestic low cost operator was unlikely and that seems logical considering the airline has a monopoly on the market. The latest rumours seemed to suggest that the ERJ-170 has/will be ordered which is a 70 (not a 90) seater, so could they be looking at the ERJ-190/195? The latter are ideal replacements for the B735s but will they allow for greater domestic frequency?

Regarding the part privatisation, the Ministry of Civil Aviation has indicated that they are working on selling 20%* of the company and that accounting experts are working to issue an IPO in the first quarter of 2007. Proceeds of the sale will be used to purchase 21-23 new jets with first delivery expected in 2008.

It's also worth mentioning that CAC have 'confirmed' CAI's T3 will open no later than November 2007 which is a relief considering the reports that it could open in 2008. Now if this is so and if it's true US carriers plan to serve CAI 'soon' will they a) launch services in S07 to coincide with the busy season (serving T2) then move to T3 later in the year or b) start services when T3 opens in late 2007 (low travel season) or c) wait until S08?


Also El Nasr General Contracting Co are about to start work on CAI's new $79.3million third runway which will serve all 3 terminals. In addition the government has recently agreed with the 'Holding Company for Airports And Air Navigation' an investment plan to further develop Egyptian airports at a cost of LE450 billion between now and the end of 2007.



*the airline cannot privatise more than 20% of the company for the next 8 years as stipulated by banks to guarantee loans from previous aircraft purchases.


Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

I should add (from the other thread) that I read an interview with Amadeus Egypt's GM where he said MS will move to a new business model in 2007 or 2008. Seems to coincide with the opening of T3, part privatisation and fleet expansion.


Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8664 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
The latter are ideal replacements for the B735s but will they allow for greater domestic frequency?

Agreed, I wish MS good luck with this new subsidiary. It should do well if the right a/c are used for the right routes.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2170 times:
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Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):

Thanks for starting the Thread ya abo el MS

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
Regarding the new carrier, the Dutch Embassy in Cairo (strange source but hey) reported in July that the national carrier (MS) would launch a LCC in March07 with 5 Airbus aircraft. This was soon dismissed by the airline execs. I was told a purely domestic low cost operator was unlikely and that seems logical considering the airline has a monopoly on the market

I do agree that it doesn't make scenes to start one, for decades MS has long hands on the domestic market, and I think if they were going to Open a new company they could just kept AirCairo Instead of starting a new one.

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
The latter are ideal replacements for the B735s but will they allow for greater domestic frequency?

The ER 190/195 is amazing plane, like i said before it's a plane that you love to be on and it will work perfect and better than the B735s(don't you like to be on a 2 seats instead of 3)  Smile

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Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
It's also worth mentioning that CAC have 'confirmed' CAI's T3 will open no later than November 2007 which is a relief

Finally the announced it. Hopefully it should be open with no delays.

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
Now if this is so and if it's true US carriers plan to serve CAI 'soon' will they a) launch services in S07 to coincide with the busy season (serving T2) then move to T3 later in the year or b) start services when T3 opens in late 2007 (low travel season) or c) wait until S08?

I still have my hope that CO OR DL will start service there on S07, I keep watching the News waiting for any light soon.

Quoting Horus (Reply 2):
I should add (from the other thread) that I read an interview with Amadeus Egypt's GM where he said MS will move to a new business model in 2007 or 2008. Seems to coincide with the opening of T3, part privatisation and fleet expansion

Did they Publish that new Model Yet?

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
Agreed, I wish MS good luck with this new subsidiary. It should do well if the right a/c are used for the right routes.

Thanks MCOflyer, and i do agree with your words about the right a/c in the right place.



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
Thanks for starting a new thread MSYYZ



Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
Thanks for starting the Thread ya abo el MS

Anytime ya abou Horus and abou el cabaten .

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
I was told a purely domestic low cost operator was unlikely and that seems logical considering the airline has a monopoly on the market

Right , there is no need for an LCC unless other Egyptian LCC's / Charters are allowed to operate regular scheduled domestic services . My understanding is that they are planning a new (Subsidiary) doesn't necessarily have to be an LCC .

Quoting Horus (Reply 1):
Now if this is so and if it's true US carriers plan to serve CAI 'soon'

I am looking forward to see American carriers back to CAI . Where are those good old days when TWA and Delta were serving the city . I guess abou el cabaten will be thrilled to see these routes coming back .

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
and I think if they were going to Open a new company they could just kept Air Cairo Instead of starting a new one.

That's what i was thinking , unless they want to keep Air Cairo as a charter company for European flights and start this brand new Subsidiary only for domestic routes .



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
I do agree that it doesn't make scenes to start one, for decades MS has long hands on the domestic market, and I think if they were going to Open a new company they could just kept AirCairo Instead of starting a new one.

Well Sunair and Air Memphis operate scheduled domestic flights, but the question is will these private carriers want to serve the domestic market after MS's complete dominance/stranglehold in the market for decades? There's no hiding the fact that the international market (particularly intra-Aab) is far more lucrative, profitable and larger.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
The ER 190/195 is amazing plane, like i said before it's a plane that you love to be on and it will work perfect and better than the B735s(don't you like to be on a 2 seats instead of 3) Smile

Jeez I just want this order to be announced. This regional-jet 'order' has been doing the rounds since 2003. That's almost 4 years. To be honest at this point I'd be happy if they order LET410s!  Silly At least that'll put an end to these speculations.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
Hopefully it should be open with no delays.

Lets hope Fraport, CAC and TAV can get this sorted.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
I still have my hope that CO OR DL will start service there on S07

Rabina yisma3 min bo2ak ya gameel!

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 4):
Did they Publish that new Model Yet?

According to Hazem Hussein (not MS), he thinks Egyptair will:
1. look to partner with one of the alliances
2. increase their fleet
3. undergo re-branding
4. improve services on flights

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 5):
Anytime ya abou Horus and abou el cabaten .

Ya gameel inta ya gameel!

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 5):
Right , there is no need for an LCC unless other Egyptian LCC's / Charters are allowed to operate regular scheduled domestic services . My understanding is that they are planning a new (Subsidiary) doesn't necessarily have to be an LCC .

If management sees this as the best way forward then fair enough, however at a time of consolidation why start a new subsidiary? Air Cairo and Air Sinai (granted the latter is a paper airline) are enough. Having said that the issue with Air Cairo is that MS only part own the company so they doesn't have absolute control over the decision making process.

Also what will happen to the TLV service. At the moment they are operated using 2 unmarked MS B735s (SU-GBH/K) on behalf of 'Air Sinai'. Now if it's true these new RJs will replace the BabyBoeings will one RJ be devoid of markings? And in that case will TLV flights be operated using this new subsidiary's aircraft under the Air Sinai name but for Egyptair?

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 5):
I am looking forward to see American carriers back to CAI . Where are those good old days when TWA and Delta were serving the city . I guess abou el cabaten will be thrilled to see these routes coming back .

Now that UA will serve KWI, CAI is the most likely next destination as it's the largest (DXB is attractive but well served by EK (soon 3x daily) and EY (daily) this winter)

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 5):
That's what i was thinking , unless they want to keep Air Cairo as a charter company for European flights and start this brand new Subsidiary only for domestic routes .

But the previous talks were for this new operator to serve domestic and selected regional services (e.g. BEY and AMM). If this goes ahead the worry is that consumers may get confused with which airline/subsidiary serves which route/destination.


Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

And it seems the Amadeus agreement is (finally) starting to bear fruit as the airline nears the launch of e-ticketing (and online bookings):

http://www.egyptair.com.eg/docs/publicity/publicity_Eticket.htm

Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2019 times:

Quoting Horus (Reply 7):
And it seems the Amadeus agreement is (finally) starting to bear fruit as the airline nears the launch of e-ticketing (and online bookings):

Good , but I hope they fix their not too user friendly ( to say the least ) website first .



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 8):

Good , but I hope they fix their not too user friendly ( to say the least ) website first .

All in good time my friend. I was browzing through KQ's site earlier today and was impressed at how simple yet detailed and presentable it is.

Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1963 times:
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Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
Well Sunair and Air Memphis operate scheduled domestic flights, but the question is will these private carriers want to serve the domestic market after MS's complete dominance/stranglehold in the market for decades? There's no hiding the fact that the international market (particularly intra-Aab) is far more lucrative, profitable and larger.

Well for Decades like you said MS have been dominating the market for Domestic Flights, and you couldn't fly domestically in any airline except if you know someone who Guarantee you a ticket on one of Them.
I Would say if Sunair and Air Memphis decided they wanna go for more domestic we will see some real competition, But the Question comes again does either of them have enough fleet to support such expansion? don't think so myself, i wouldn't think that either of them will go on a bigger than A321, but at the same time now the consumer will have the Option to fly different airlines not only MS which i believe will Divide the load on the domestic route while at the same time free MS longhaul fleet for more expansion.

Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
Jeez I just want this order to be announced. This regional-jet 'order' has been doing the rounds since 2003. That's almost 4 years. To be honest at this point I'd be happy if they order LET410s! At least that'll put an end to these speculations.

Well we got used to that MS will always surprise us, they will never tell you when and what exactly they going to Order until they place the order. so be patient 4 more years is not far away Big grin

Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
Lets hope Fraport, CAC and TAV can get this sorted.

I'm hoping for the Best

Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
1. look to partner with one of the alliances
2. increase their fleet
3. undergo re-branding
4. improve services on flights

1- which Alliance you think they Will join? i would say they will go for SkyTeam or OW
2- are we going to see more B777?
3- they need that.
4- the service now is much better that it used to be couple of years ago and i hope it keep going better ( 1% Hope they will add PVT)

Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
Also what will happen to the TLV service. At the moment they are operated using 2 unmarked MS B735s (SU-GBH/K) on behalf of 'Air Sinai'. Now if it's true these new RJs will replace the Baby-Boeings will one RJ be devoid of markings? And in that case will TLV flights be operated using this new subsidiary's aircraft under the Air Sinai name but for Egyptair?

well knowing MS they might Keep those 2 Baby-Boeings just to dedicate them to that Route and use them as a Backup, yes the ER should replace the Baby-Boeings but i would say not immediately they will see how the loads will be and i'm sure that MS would like to Keep those ER on the High Yields routes like HRG, SSH , LUX and ASW, but again you never know

Quoting Horus (Reply 6):
But the previous talks were for this new operator to serve domestic and selected regional services (e.g. BEY and AMM). If this goes ahead the worry is that consumers may get confused with which airline/subsidiary serves which route/destination.

we all know that lots of Consumers around the globe don't really care about which airline they flying as long as they get the cheapest Fare, As we all know in Egypt most of the Booking is done through the Travel Agencies so it wouldn't make a difference to the Consumer, Because i believe the Travel agency agent will give him the details.

Quoting Horus (Reply 7):
And it seems the Amadeus agreement is (finally) starting to bear fruit as the airline nears the launch of e-ticketing (and online bookings):

Finally, it was about time to get ride of those old looking ugly paper tickets - GO E Go E  Smile

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 8):
Good , but I hope they fix their not too user friendly ( to say the least ) website first

well hopefully it will be by the end of the year like the announced before



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
Well for Decades like you said MS have been dominating the market for Domestic Flights, and you couldn't fly domestically in any airline except if you know someone who Guarantee you a ticket on one of Them.
I Would say if Sunair and Air Memphis decided they wanna go for more domestic we will see some real competition, But the Question comes again does either of them have enough fleet to support such expansion? don't think so myself, i wouldn't think that either of them will go on a bigger than A321, but at the same time now the consumer will have the Option to fly different airlines not only MS which i believe will Divide the load on the domestic route while at the same time free MS longhaul fleet for more expansion.

Well I have high hopes for SunAir (and soon-to-be-launched sister company Koral Blue) considering they have the backing of Orascom which is a fantastic multi-interest company that IMO is a role model to all Egyptian private enterprises. If private carriers really start taking the domestic market seriously I see SunAir being the forerunner. As for Air Memphis their only 'scheduled' route is ASW-ABS-ASW where they operate upto 15 daily flights. I just think MS will use its financial strength and capacity to keep these airlines from becoming major competition on domestic sectors something which is more difficult to do on international routes.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
Well we got used to that MS will always surprise us, they will never tell you when and what exactly they going to Order until they place the order. so be patient 4 more years is not far away Big grin

To be honest the frustration is shared by pilots and some management alike who are only informed of an order days before it's announced. Now off course my LET410 comment was meant as a joke but it illustrates how slowing moving the airline can be at times. O and another 4 year wait is nuthin...will pass just like that...

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
1- which Alliance you think they Will join? i would say they will go for SkyTeam or OW

Egyptair In Early Talks To Join Star Alliance (by Horus Mar 18 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
2- are we going to see more B777?

Well SU184 said there are 'strong rumours' that B777s will be ordered to replace the A342s. Earlier this year I was informed by A330 pilots that they'd order more of the Airbus twin-jet. Then you have the latest regional-jet 'fiasco'. I'd assume more A320s/B737s will be ordered in due course to replace the 5 older A320s and expand their short/medium haul operations.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
3- they need that.

It should be more than skin deep i.e. not just a livery change but a further product enhancement.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
4- the service now is much better that it used to be couple of years ago and i hope it keep going better ( 1% Hope they will add PVT)

With the highest passenger to crew ratio of most airline service is certainly personal and it has improved in the last few years. As for PTVs, I don't see it happening for some time. MS doesn't have the necessary resources to install PTVs in Y and the fact the new A332s haven't got them indicates a PTV installation programme is some time away.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
well knowing MS they might Keep those 2 Baby-Boeings just to dedicate them to that Route and use them as a Backup, yes the ER should replace the Baby-Boeings but i would say not immediately they will see how the loads will be and i'm sure that MS would like to Keep those ER on the High Yields routes like HRG, SSH , LUX and ASW, but again you never know

The B735s will all be retired so none will be kept for that route. However if this new domestic airline materialises I can see them flying to TLV, that way they get around the 'MS@TLV' issue without increasing costs.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
we all know that lots of Consumers around the globe don't really care about which airline they flying as long as they get the cheapest Fare, As we all know in Egypt most of the Booking is done through the Travel Agencies so it wouldn't make a difference to the Consumer, Because i believe the Travel agency agent will give him the details.

True, but the issue of having a fragmented product only increases costs for no advantageous commercial reason.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
Finally, it was about time to get ride of those old looking ugly paper tickets - GO E Go E Smile

I've got a collection of MS paper tickets from the past decade. They'll be worth millions in a few years. Mark my words Tut!

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 10):
well hopefully it will be by the end of the year like the announced before

And the waiting game continues. Wanna place a wager on when it's relaunched Tut?  Smile


Horus



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1883 times:
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Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
Well I have high hopes for SunAir (and soon-to-be-launched sister company Koral Blue) considering they have the backing of Orascom which is a fantastic multi-interest company that IMO is a role model to all Egyptian private enterprises. If private carriers really start taking the domestic market seriously I see SunAir being the forerunner. As for Air Memphis their only 'scheduled' route is ASW-ABS-ASW where they operate upto 15 daily flights. I just think MS will use its financial strength and capacity to keep these airlines from becoming major competition on domestic sectors something which is more difficult to do on international routes.

I wish the Best for Both of them and i would really wish to see them growing more and more.
what about Koral Blue isn't a Tunisian Company originally? correct me if i'm wrong please, what about their fleet and where they going to serve?

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
Now off course my LET410 comment was meant as a joke

you kidding right? i took you seriously :P

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
Egyptair In Early Talks To Join Star Alliance (

Honestly that's my Favorite even though most of my mills are Skyteam, I guess with MS in i will have lots of miles  Smile

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):



Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
The B735s will all be retired so none will be kept for that route. However if this new domestic airline materialises I can see them flying to TLV, that way they get around the 'MS@TLV' issue without increasing costs

It Does make sense that way lets hope they going to do it that way.

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
I've got a collection of MS paper tickets from the past decade. They'll be worth millions in a few years. Mark my words Tut!

Marked in my Favorites just don't come and ask to buy all those old Boarding Passes that i have :P

Quoting Horus (Reply 11):
And the waiting game continues. Wanna place a wager on when it's relaunched Tut?

i would say it's not going to by launched by the end of the year what do you think?



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
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