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Peru Imposes Visa To Mexicans. Impact On Am?  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 30
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

Hey guys,

I just found out that Peru is imposing tourist visas on Mexicans citizens. Will this have any effect on AM flights to LIM?

It looks like the Peruvian government is taking reciprocal action. Way to go LatinAmerican integration! If we continue this way, we'll become the next European Union in a matter of months  sarcastic 

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17481 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
Way to go LatinAmerican integration!

Why do they do this to each other? If they want to make business and tourism more difficult, why don't they just issue a press release and tell everyone not to come visit or do business? It'd be a lot easier. Yeah sure



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
I just found out that Peru is imposing tourist visas on Mexicans citizens. Will this have any effect on AM flights to LIM?

It looks like the Peruvian government is taking reciprocal action. Way to go LatinAmerican integration! If we continue this way, we'll become the next European Union in a matter of months

I don't think that will really be a major player in pax loads to-from MEX.... Mexicans like to fly all over the world, and getting a visa won't stop that... I actually think is good that Peru asks for visas, for if Mexico requires of them, why not they do too? The few times I've being to a mexican consulate, the way the officers treat people seeking a visa to MEX is ridiculous... as the poor folks say "worst than trying for the US"....
Anyways, like I said, this will have no or very little impact in sales for AM, I doubt it will be very hard or costly to get a visa for Peru...

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Why do they do this to each other? If they want to make business and tourism more difficult, why don't they just issue a press release and tell everyone not to come visit or do business? It'd be a lot easier. Yeah sure

Funny you mention that, when it is easy for US citizens to go anywhere, while is hard for anyone in other countries to go to the US.... so maybe it should start with the US changing their approach no?



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17481 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 2):
Funny you mention that, when it is easy for US citizens to go anywhere, while is hard for anyone in other countries to go to the US.... so maybe it should start with the US changing their approach no?

I generally oppose visas for visitors to the US, but in the US' defence, there are a lot more people trying to get to the US to illegally stay, than Americans trying to get to Brazil, for example, and illegally remain there. There's actually a reasonable argument to add obstacles, in the form of a visa, to slow the inflow of immigrants, specifically illegal ones, to the US.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2448 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
Will this have any effect on AM flights to LIM?

I don't think AM will be hurt that much, since they now fly the B73G to LIM compared to the B757 they were flying on the previous months; it is a reduction in the number of seats that matches demand perfectly and sales are boosted thanks to codeshare with MX, LP, DL. Lan Peru is the one who will be hurt, since they fly a B763 3x week. LIM has always been an under-performing route thanks to too much competition. Finally, when airlines started to get good yields (TA stop their 3x week flight a year ago), Peru gets Mexico into their Visa program...

Some Mexicans were taken by surprise:

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/espectaculos/71490.html

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
It looks like the Peruvian government is taking reciprocal action. Way to go LatinAmerican integration! If we continue this way, we'll become the next European Union in a matter of months

If Mr. Alan Garcia claims reciprocity to Mexico, I still don't understand why I don't need a visa with my Spanish Passport and Peruvians need a visa to enter Spain??? Same with US Citizens?? I guess the reciprocity is just to pressure Mexico and some countries in Central America to throw away their visa requirements for Peruvians. I would assume Mr. Garcia thinks Mexicans don't account for much of its tourist industry...

--------------------------------------------------------------
National SPAIN (ES) /Destination PERU (PE)
PERU (PE)
Passport required (recommended to be valid at least 6 months
on arrival).
Visa not required for a max. stay of 90 days, for touristic
purposes only.
--------------------------------------------------------------
National PERU (PE) /Destination SPAIN (ES)
SPAIN (ES)
Passport required (must be valid at least 3 months beyond
expiry date of visa).
Visa required.
--------------------------------------------------------------


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3888 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 2):
I actually think is good that Peru asks for visas, for if Mexico requires of them, why not they do too? The few times I've being to a mexican consulate, the way the officers treat people seeking a visa to MEX is ridiculous... as the poor folks say "worst than trying for the US"....

The only loser here is Peru. I have never been to Mexican consulate as Venezuelans don't need Visas to visit Mexico but what has really puzzled me is why Mexican inmigration officers always look for my US Visa before stamping my passport. They find the US Visa, scan it and then stamp my passport and tell me: "Enjoy your visit".

Quoting Atnight (Reply 2):
Funny you mention that, when it is easy for US citizens to go anywhere, while is hard for anyone in other countries to go to the US.... so maybe it should start with the US changing their approach no?

Imagine all the illegal inmigrants that would flock to the US if it relaxed visa requirements.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
There's actually a reasonable argument to add obstacles, in the form of a visa, to slow the inflow of immigrants, specifically illegal ones, to the US.

Agree.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 4):
I guess the reciprocity is just to pressure Mexico and some countries in Central America to throw away their visa requirements for Peruvians

I guess so. I think Mexico shouldn't require visas to fellow Latin Americans citizens, but then again, US pressure is too powerful and makes Mexico impose the visas on LatAm countries which tend to cross the Rio Grande / Bravo. Remember that the reason that Mexico imposes visas is because they don't want illegal inmigrants using Mexico to cross into the USA.

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2448 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
I guess so. I think Mexico shouldn't require visas to fellow Latin Americans citizens, but then again, US pressure is too powerful and makes Mexico impose the visas on LatAm countries which tend to cross the Rio Grande / Bravo. Remember that the reason that Mexico imposes visas is because they don't want illegal immigrants using Mexico to cross into the USA.

I believe that Visas should be imposed when a certain number of foreign nationals overstay the period of time they were allowed by the immigration officers. They should be imposed as a control measure but not because of reciprocity, therefore I don't see that many Mexicans or Costa Ricans overstaying in Peru, but I do see many Brazilians trying to cross the Mexican border and overstaying in Mexico. The Mexican government has to stop them somehow and by having to apply for a Visa and going through a screening process, overstays can be stopped. Brazil is the biggest example of pride and how to hurt a tourist industry with their reciprocity measures. If they can't increase per capita GDP by themselves, why impose visas just because other countries are trying to stop massive migration like the one Brazil had a year ago where 70,000 Brazilians entered Mexico and just 20,000 left the country. Where are the other 50,000??? If the 10,000 Mexicans overstay in Brazil, I would justify reciprocity, but I don't think there are even 1,000 cases of Mexicans overstaying in Brazil or Peru!


User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3830 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
Imagine all the illegal inmigrants that would flock to the US if it relaxed visa requirements.

Look, I know that would be a big problem if the US would change their requirements, but I was replying to MaverickM11 in regards to his idea of "why they put visas and how it hurts tourism"... So I wanted him to clarify his view, for it is easy to dislike an imposition made by some other country, but accept happy the very same imposition by one's own country.... so by him explaining, and making an exception to his view in the light of what the US would get into, is perfectly understandable.....

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
I guess so. I think Mexico shouldn't require visas to fellow Latin Americans citizens, but then again, US pressure is too powerful and makes Mexico impose the visas on LatAm countries which tend to cross the Rio Grande / Bravo. Remember that the reason that Mexico imposes visas is because they don't want illegal inmigrants using Mexico to cross into the USA.

Another example of how the US extends its dominion over Mexico....

Quoting Rojo (Reply 6):
Brazil is the biggest example of pride and how to hurt a tourist industry with their reciprocity measures. If they can't increase per capita GDP by themselves, why impose visas just because other countries are trying to stop massive migration like the one Brazil had a year ago where 70,000 Brazilians entered Mexico and just 20,000 left the country. Where are the other 50,000??? If the 10,000 Mexicans overstay in Brazil, I would justify reciprocity, but I don't think there are even 1,000 cases of Mexicans overstaying in Brazil or Peru!

First of all, I would like to know some figures of how tourism was affected before I would accept that the industry was greatly affected by the imposition of Visas from Brazil to Mexican citizens (if you can provide that information, I would greatly appreciate it).... Now, I think it would be quite silly to think that most Brazilian would stay in Mexico because they are better off than in Brazil.. So your view that Brazilians went to Mexico for massive migration seems absurd..... Mexico doesn't have much more to offer than Brazil.... So is very safe to say that of the number of people who in paper have overstayed, at least 90% did it to cross the border over to the US and are probably right here in the US now or went elsewhere.... So I don't think you should call the Brazilians "prideful" for putting a visa to Mexicans, when Mexico does the same to just about everyone else....
Now, one thing that is very unfair from your post, is that you are hammering the social economic problem of another country, when your OWN country has the most migration to the US than any other country in the world due to Mexico's own social economical status... So I think that before judging, you should analyse your own condition...
Anyway, tourism will not be affected by visas... proof example, when the EU began imposing visas to many countries in Latin America, (Ecuador, Peru, Dominican Republic, etc), the amount of air-travel decreased just a little bit at the beginning, but came back and is increasing little by little each year.... So visas, though a pain, are not that big a deal for those who want to travel, specially for those who have the money to travel as tourists...



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
First of all, I would like to know some figures of how tourism was affected before I would accept that the industry was greatly affected by the imposition of Visas from Brazil to Mexican citizens

They imposed visas to ALL countries requiring visas to Brazilians, the most important of them all: The USA. They also have fingerprint and photos taken to US Citizens as a way to reciprocate treatment received by Brazilians in the USA.

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
So is very safe to say that of the number of people who in paper have overstayed, at least 90% did it to cross the border over to the US and are probably right here in the US now or went elsewhere

Indeed.

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis


User currently offlineAtnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 8):
They imposed visas to ALL countries requiring visas to Brazilians, the most important of them all: The USA. They also have fingerprint and photos taken to US Citizens as a way to reciprocate treatment received by Brazilians in the USA.

Yes, that is old news... but I asked if tourism was trully affected by the visas.... which I don't think has been the case.... I don't see the US reducing flights to Brazil, on the contrary, with RG going down, there is an increase of frequencies by some carriers to-from Brazil.... So I dont' get your point in mentioning that Brazil requires visas to US citizens...
Anyways, like I said, tourism is not affected that much by the imposition of visas...



B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 4):
I still don't understand why I don't need a visa with my Spanish Passport and Peruvians need a visa to enter Spain???

Spain's visa policy is governed by the Schengen treaty to which it has subscribed, so the issue is more global than just the bilateral relationship between Spain and Peru, yet the issue remains that most if not all Schengen passport holders are not subjected to any visa requirements when visiting Peru, while Peruvian passport holders must go through the lengthy Schengen visa process when trying to visit Europe.


User currently offlineMTYFREAK From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
It looks like the Peruvian government is taking reciprocal action.

Is there a good reason for this or is it a mere childish reaction from our Peruvian friends??

I personally find it hard to believe that they would do this as a "revenge" for Mexican immigration policy,

In the other hand, Mexico really needs to impose the visa policy because the well known issues on the matter like all the ilegales trying to make it to the northern border which has been catalog as a "National security issue" by the Mexican government regardless of what the USA has to say on the matter,

I doubt that AM will have a negative impact upon the new visa requirements imposed by Peru, they didn't have much of an impact with the tough American requirements so this should be more of a walk in the park.

Greetings to al Peruvians!
you guys have a beautiful country!



Only here for the beer...
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2448 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
Yes, that is old news... but I asked if tourism was trully affected by the visas.... which I don't think has been the case.... I don't see the US reducing flights to Brazil, on the contrary, with RG going down, there is an increase of frequencies by some carriers to-from Brazil.... So I dont' get your point in mentioning that Brazil requires visas to US citizens...
Anyways, like I said, tourism is not affected that much by the imposition of visas...

Major of Rio asked the congress of Brazil a year ago to stop requesting Visas to US citizens. That way he could have a lot more tourism who will contribute to more jobs. He said this at the same time when an AA captain showed a finger to an immigration officer...


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
Will this have any effect on AM flights to LIM?

Mexico and Brazil started requiring Visas to each other's nationals since last year. In 2006 Brazil-Mexico bilateral was upgraded, AM upgraded aircraft, GOL and OceanAir requested rights for MEX and MX is supposed to hold some frequencies to Brazil already.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 6):
Brazil is the biggest example of pride and how to hurt a tourist industry with their reciprocity measures. If they can't increase per capita GDP by themselves, why impose visas just because other countries are trying to stop massive migration like the one Brazil had a year ago where 70,000 Brazilians entered Mexico and just 20,000 left the country.

How in this life you can blame Brazil for not getting to increase life quality, whereas:
- one fifth of your country (Mexico) immigrated to the US (most illegaly);
- is the 2nd top country in the world in number of remittances (9.9 Bi in 2001). Brazil (pop 180 mi): 1.5 Bi is 15th. Mexico pop. 107 mi;
- Mexico GNP relies considerably upon workers remittances abroad;
- even with one fifth of the poor population abroad, Mexico is still as "poor" as Brazil;

Brazilian diplomacy rules are applied evenly to all countries. Brazil requires Visa to all citizens of any country whereto Brazilians need one as well.

[Edited 2006-08-30 21:35:27]


Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 2):
The few times I've being to a mexican consulate, the way the officers treat people seeking a visa to MEX is ridiculous... as the poor folks say "worst than trying for the US"....

Indeed, Mexico and the US everyday are working together even more than what many people think for many reasons.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
I have never been to Mexican consulate as Venezuelans don't need Visas to visit Mexico but what has really puzzled me is why Mexican inmigration officers always look for my US Visa before
stamping my passport.

If been screened by the US and have a Visa, then theres less risk of you trying to cross the border ilegally.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
Imagine all the illegal inmigrants that would flock to the US if it relaxed visa requirements.

Or Mexico... we can relax, even more, geografically we are the bridge to step in the US.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 5):
I guess so. I think Mexico shouldn't require visas to fellow Latin Americans citizens, but then again, US pressure is too powerful and makes Mexico impose the visas on LatAm countries which tend to cross the Rio Grande / Bravo. Remember that the reason that Mexico imposes visas is because they don't want illegal inmigrants using Mexico to cross into the USA.

We already have enough mexicans crossing... do we need more? Don't think so... more over, many Latins stay too in Mexico. And its not only the US its Canada too.

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
Now, one thing that is very unfair from your post, is that you are hammering the social economic problem of another country, when your OWN country has the most migration to the US than any other country in the world due to Mexico's own social economical status...

Its not unfair, its the truth. We know we are almost at the same level of Brazil and even worse in some cases and viceversa. Its only pure facts, no one is spitting on others. We know Latam needs more money.

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
Yes, that is old news... but I asked if tourism was trully affected by the visas.... which I don't think has been the case.... I don't see the US reducing flights to Brazil, on the contrary, with RG going down, there is an increase of frequencies by some carriers to-from Brazil.... So I dont' get your point in mentioning that Brazil requires visas to US citizens...

It was, ask RG. When visa from both sides was dropped, RG enjoyed of high loads factors and yields, right after, from B762 they went from B763 to MD11s and B772s... after dropped they went back to B763s and the rest of their downgrades has much more to do with their other problems. Mex-Bra traffic from 150,000 pax a year went up to 350,000 in 2003.

g77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
So I dont' get your point in mentioning that Brazil requires visas to US citizens...

I guess you are too stubborn to realize that US Tourists are a big source of income to the Brazilian tourism industry. No wonder why the governor of Rio de Janeiro asked Congress to drop the visa.

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
Yes, that is old news

If you already knew that, why do you ask? It was very clear that tourism suffered when the visa was imposed to US citizens. Your average American tourist won't like the fact that he/she has to pay USD 100 and visit the consulate in order to travel to Brazil. They will simply go somewhere else.

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2448 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 13):
Quoting Rojo (Reply 6):
Brazil is the biggest example of pride and how to hurt a tourist industry with their reciprocity measures. If they can't increase per capita GDP by themselves, why impose visas just because other countries are trying to stop massive migration like the one Brazil had a year ago where 70,000 Brazilians entered Mexico and just 20,000 left the country.

How in this life you can blame Brazil for not getting to increase life quality, whereas:
- one fifth of your country (Mexico) immigrated to the US (most illegaly);
- is the 2nd top country in the world in number of remittances (9.9 Bi in 2001). Brazil (pop 180 mi): 1.5 Bi is 15th. Mexico pop. 107 mi;
- Mexico GNP relies considerably upon workers remittances abroad;
- even with one fifth of the poor population abroad, Mexico is still as "poor" as Brazil;

I blame Brazil, I blame Mexico and many other countries for not increasing life quality, but at least some countries are committed to increase life quality by being open to tourism. I am not comparing Brazil and Mexico, since I know that both have to work a lot to increase per capita GDP. What I meant in the paragraph you quited is that Brazil's has too much pride and does not work in favor of its tourist industry by keeping Visa requirements for US citizens and others who don't overstay. It is obvious that US nationals will not overstay in Brazil (there is no reason for it), same as Mexican nationals (if mexican nationals were to overstay it will be in the US and that is why the US has a Visa requirement for Mexico). Therefore, if one fifth of what you call my country immigrates illegally to the US, that does not mean we have to give all Brazilians access to our territory to do the same... and at least Mexico does not have a reciprocity Visa requirement to US nationals since they are most welcome to visit Mexico and spend their money in Cancun or whatever city they want... after all, Mexico knows that a huge number of its nationals feed their families with the money they earn working in the tourist industry...


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3437 times:

I am pleased to say that, today, we have been officially notified of a Peruvian Government decree signed by both, the Interior and Foreign Relations Ministers, reversing the Visa requirement for Mexican citizens.

This suspension takes effect as of Monday September 4th.

I guess this is the end of the matter !

Greetings from Cancun !


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3406 times:

Smart movement by Peru's government!

g77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
Another example of how the US extends its dominion over Mexico....


Mexico should really listen to what some people in certain South American countries have to say about how they handle their policies because taking their advise would really get Mexico really far as their own country's situation stands as a bright example as clear evidence of how thing should be...  

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
So I don't think you should call the Brazilians "prideful" for putting a visa to Mexicans, when Mexico does the same to just about everyone else....

So what term should be used instead:

Boastful, egomaniacal, haughty, inborn, individualistic, inflated, inherent, inner-directed, introverted, isolated, narcissistic, pompous, puffed up, self-absorbed, self-admiring, self-important, superior, swollen, vain, vainglorious?

Yes, Brazil is free to do whatever it wants. But who stands to be lose/gain more by such decisions?

Quoting Atnight (Reply 7):
when your OWN country has the most migration to the US than any other country in the world due to Mexico's own social economical status... So I think that before judging, you should analyse your own condition...
Anyway, tourism will not be affected by visas... proof example, when the EU began imposing visas to many countries in Latin America, (Ecuador, Peru, Dominican Republic, etc), the amount of air-travel decreased just a little bit at the beginning, but came back and is increasing little by little each year.... So visas, though a pain, are not that big a deal for those who want to travel, specially for those who have the money to travel as tourists...

The pot calling the kettle "black".*

You are not clearly stating the situation on the basis of your benefit. The European Union imposed visa requirements precisely because certain countries (e.g. Ecuador) were sending a disproportional amount of its citizens as tourists who would overstay their permit and remain as illegal immigrants. Today, it is estimated that one out of three foreigners living in Madrid is of Ecuadorian background, a great number who are in illegal status. I don't think I need to state numbers, but if you want to take this discussion further then they are certainly available and accessible. Thus, we can certainly understand why Ecuador is one of Iberia’s most important performers and why many other airlines such as: Air Plus Comet, Air Madrid, LAN Ecuador, and Santa Barbara Airlines profit from the Ecuadorian community now residing in Spain, and for which the Spanish government has worked to legalize their status.

On the hand, Mexican citizens do not require visas to enter Spain, because Spain does not have a problem with illegal aliens coming from Mexico. On the contrary, there are more Spanish citizens living in Mexico, or people holding dual citizenship status in Mexican territory.

So the reality here is: All Latin American countries have illegal immigration problems. Let's be fair and honest and accept the fact.

  LatinPlane

* The pot calling the kettle black: A situation in which one person criticizes another for a fault they have themselves.

[Edited 2006-09-01 21:54:33]

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 11):
In the other hand, Mexico really needs to impose the visa policy because the well known issues on the matter like all the ilegales trying to make it to the northern border which has been catalog as a "National security issue" by the Mexican government regardless of what the USA has to say on the matter,

Again, Mexico cleaningg the US shoes.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
Way to go LatinAmerican integration! If we continue this way, we'll become the next European Union in a matter of months

I thought the integration was gonna be only in South America for starters. Plus Mexico makes lots of people get a visa! Mexico has never been a friend of Latam integration, they are married with the US and Canada.

I think Peru is responding with a bit of anger to the imposition, but if Mexico can do that, they have the right to react.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Quoting Atnight (Reply 9):
So I dont' get your point in mentioning that Brazil requires visas to US citizens...

Brazil's choice to require US citizens to have a Visa has a major negative effect on US tourism to the country. Americans do not want to go through the hassle of getting a Visa, and there is a negative perception implied about a country when a visa is required, usually that negative perception is that the country is therefore unsafe.

If Brazil would lift the US Visa requirement, within the next 5-10 years, there is potential for US-Brazil traffic to, literally, grow 400-500% because Americans will flock to the beautiful beaches and favourable exchange rates, while giving a huge boost to the tourist market in Brazil.

Until then, Americans enjoy visting nations like Argentina and Costa Rica, which don't require visas.



a.
User currently offlineFarmenta From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

I am glad that the visa requirement was drop. I was planning a trip to Peru during November, but once I find out about the visa requirement, I was re-considering the trip!.

My point is, yes visa requirements affect tourism. In my case, I started to look for a different country to visit, perhaps Argentina?

I don't agree with visa requirments, but again, this is a process for countries to protect their borders.

Cheers,

Fer


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
Again, Mexico cleaningg the US shoes.

Would you like it if someone used the the term to describe a woman who sleeps around with everyone to refer to a certain country located in South America that has had many of its citizens forced out of their territory (popularly known as "los desplasados") by the civil war to seek refuge in many other countries like: Ecuador, Venezuela, Brazil, Costa Rica, Panama, not to mention the other millions who also had to immigrate to places like the U.S., Canada, Spain, and England? Or anywhere else who leaves the doors open and lets them in?

I don't think so...

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 20):
I thought the integration was gonna be only in South America for starters. Plus Mexico makes lots of people get a visa! Mexico has never been a friend of Latam integration, they are married with the US and Canada.

Dude, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You are putting your foot in your mouth just like that time when you stated on the Non-Aviation forum your ideas about detesting Venezuelans because you hated their accent. Absolutely outrageous!

Historically, Mexico has always been a leader in encouraging Latin American integration and cooperation and has always volunteered as as a mediator when conflicts arise between bordering Latin American countries.

When El Salvador signed the peace treaty after its devastating civil war, Mexico kindly offered its facilities to sign the memorandum that established peace. Just last year, when Colombian and Venezuela had another one of their regular disagreements (as the twins that never get along) when FARC leader Rodrigo Granda was captured by Colombian special forces in the middle of Caracas and Hugo Chavez got at it with Alvaro Uribe for legitimately invading Venezuelan territory, there again was Mexico willing offering to mediate and resolve things between the two in what could have turned into a very ugly situation.

That some of you decide to criticize Mexico for being responsible and doing what it needs to do, is your problem, but to call Mexico a sell out, or separatist from Latin America to be at the disposition of the U.S. is nothing more than "envious rhetoric."

I ask you RCS763AV, do you know that Mexico has opened its doors to approximately 35,000 Colombians that are now residing in Mexican territory? The amount is not much when compared to other countries, but it goes to show that Mexico is not what you make it sound to be. I assure you that on any Avianca flight between Bogota and Mexico City, you'll find one Colombian resident living in Mexico not agreeing with the statements you made.

In this regard, I wonder what the hell Peru was thinking after so much investment that has been made to promote tourism into to the country and for which Mexico assited and advised Peru in its marketing strategy and insterstingly using Mexico as the model to follow in its own quest to promote itself as a vacation destination and for which the country has greatly benefited in resent times. Man, us Latins I tell you... We take one step forward and two steps back!!!


LatinPlane

[Edited 2006-09-01 23:46:05]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3251 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Brazil's choice to require US citizens to have a Visa has a major negative effect on US tourism to the country. Americans do not want to go through the hassle of getting a Visa, and there is a negative perception implied about a country when a visa is required, usually that negative perception is that the country is therefore unsafe.

If Brazil would lift the US Visa requirement, within the next 5-10 years, there is potential for US-Brazil traffic to, literally, grow 400-500% because Americans will flock to the beautiful beaches and favourable exchange rates, while giving a huge boost to the tourist market in Brazil.

Until then, Americans enjoy visting nations like Argentina and Costa Rica, which don't require visas.

Same for Brazilians, its not easy and its not cheap to get a US Visa. Until US easy their procedures at least the same number of people that travel to the US are refused by consulates and decide to fly to UK, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy and Germany which don't require visas.

I cant say 400-500%, but for sure can grow 300%.

Brazil IMO is not professional concerning to tourists.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Donzilasse : Way to go Peru! This is our countries fault once and for all! I support the Brazilian decision as well. The U.S. Have been treating our South American
26 MAH4546 : Just to be clear, I'm not saying I don't support what Brazil is doing. I think the process that the US makes Brazilians go through to get a Visa is r
27 FLY2LIM : Farmenta: Your profile says "United States" which means that you have a US passport. There is no visa requirement for Americans traveling to Peru, an
28 RCS763AV : Well, first of all, its not a civil war, the ones who are amred are illegal groups who aren´t even revolutionary anymore just a bunch of terrorists.
29 LipeGIG : I have the same doubt Mark, for sure americans can bring a lot of money as tourists and even as investors, but we have a reciprocity law. I personall
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