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Triple Sevens At SXM  
User currently offlineTony Lu From China, joined Sep 2000, 534 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Which airlines fly/flew 777's to SXM? I did a search in the database and only saw an Air Europe 777. Where did they fly them to/from? IMO, 777's are the best aircraft and SXM is the best airport so they seem great together.

Thanks for the help,

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29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

Air Europe 777s?  Wow! Dang, now I really want to go to SXM.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently onlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 1):
Air Europe 777s?

I believe they went out of business. AF will start flying the 77W into SXM. Could someone verify when this is going to happen please?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

I am pretty sure that Air Europe was at SXM on a charter flight. I'm guessing it came from Italy as that's where the airline is based, they only have one 767-300 now though.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
AF will start flying the 77W into SXM.

I'm not sure if this has been verified yet. The 777-300ER's that fly to the Caribbean are based in ORY and the SXM route is from CDG.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21792 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

I'm pretty sure that's not a problem. The 777-300ER has beeing flying to FDF from ORY with no problem.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

Correct me if I'm wrong...lacking sleep...


User currently offlineKeego From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

Correct me if I'm wrong...lacking sleep...

KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up with enough fuel to go on to Europe so im sure AF would do the same if they needed to.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting Keego (Reply 7):
KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up

Most I've known of would hop over to Antigua and load up.....last time I was in SXM on CO back to EWR they did that very thing, but it was on a B722, think they still do that however with the B752 that used to go seasonal and the NG's.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineGyojoo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

I remember watching a video of 747-400 blowing people from the sands into the water with its engine wash. I'm wondering what'll happen to the beach when 777's powerful engine goes full throttle at the same spot.

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting Keego (Reply 7):
KLM 744's Depart SXM and fly to a nearby island, land and full up with enough fuel to go on to Europe so im sure AF would do the same if they needed to.

That nearby island would be CUR. AF uses the 77W to PTP and FDF but these airports cannot be compared to SXM which has the mountain close to the runway. So comparing these island with each other is not the right way. On what I do agree is that AF can fly to SXM nonstop from Paris and continue to PTP or FDF with the 77W (currently flown with the A343). This might reduce the weight restriction issues out of SXM as the aircraft will depart SXM with less fuel because the refuelling will be done in either PTP or FDF. As far I know all AF flights to SXM are nonstop but the returnflights all go via PTP or FDF. So this would allow 77W operations in and out of SXM, right?

A388


User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3812 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3713 times:

Wasn't there talk that KLM would fly 777s into SXM in the future?

DeltaRules



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 11):
Wasn't there talk that KLM would fly 777s into SXM in the future?

Not that I am aware of.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Aren't there problems with 777s getting out of SXM with enough fuel to make it Europe?

Check below.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
Something tells me the question with the 773ER has always been can it carry enough fuel to make it back to CDG (or ORY) and still be able to climb out of SXM in an engine-out situation...

That's exactly it (although AF operates their flights to SXM from CDG only). Weight restrictions plus engine out requirements are what keeps the 777 from flying to SXM. Air Frances uses the A343 on that route, which can make the distance both ways nonstop. Hence probably why the A343 has been chosen to replace the 742s for the route.


User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
That's exactly it (although AF operates their flights to SXM from CDG only). Weight restrictions plus engine out requirements are what keeps the 777 from flying to SXM. Air Frances uses the A343 on that route, which can make the distance both ways nonstop. Hence probably why the A343 has been chosen to replace the 742s for the route.

And that is quite an achievement given SXM's runway is little over 7000ft(approx 2300m) long.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 14):
And that is quite an achievement given SXM's runway is little over 7000ft(approx 2300m) long.

Well, KL is due to re-introduce MD-11s to SXM next year on a W pattern AMS-AUA-SXM flight. KL's MD-11s used to fly nonstop to and from SXM at one point, but that service was dropped and KL kept SXM as a triangular 747 flight (AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS).

Personally I'm also amazed as to how good of a short field performer the A343 actually is, given that it can make it back to France nonstop from SXM. It shows that the A343 still has quite a few advantages over the big twin.


User currently online777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting Tony Lu (Thread starter):
IMO, 777's are the best aircraft and SXM is the best airport so they seem great together.

I totally agree!

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 5):
'm pretty sure that's not a problem. The 777-300ER has beeing flying to FDF from ORY with no problem.

Much like OGG, the question is not whether the 777 has the range to make it from O to D, but rather does the airport at the departure point have a long enough runway to allow a loaded 777 to takeoff. UA's OGG-ORD 777s have to stop in nearby KOA to top off the tank and use the longer runway (about 12K feet versus 7500 feet at OGG).


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):

Personally I'm also amazed as to how good of a short field performer the A343 actually is, given that it can make it back to France nonstop from SXM. It shows that the A343 still has quite a few advantages over the big twin.

The issue with 777 is the engine out restrictions. Being a twin, losing one engine is a bigger deal. The 772ER has a shorter takeoff roll, given the same amount of fuel, and without the restrictions could fly directly to europe. My guess is that a 772LR could do it easy, but no one will ever use on that route.

The 4 engines of the A340 have a few unique advantages still over ETOPS, this is one of them.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

So the 772ER can operate to/from SXM to Europe while the 773ER cannot due to its bigger size in case of a one engine out situation? The 772ER can arrive/depart SXM with one engine I assume? Air Europe (Italy) 772ER comes to mind.

A388


User currently offlineWatapana From Netherlands Antilles, joined Oct 2004, 39 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

AF has no plans of an equipment change to SXM for the time being. The load factors on the CDG-SXM-CDG flights are doing quite satisfactory. All flights to/from SXM depart from CDG, on the otherhand all flights to FDF and PTP depart from ORY.

CDG functions for all international flights, while ORY is for all domestic flights of which FDF and PTP fall under (french overseas territories). And besides all AF flights to FDF and PTP are subsidised by the French Government, as AF must provide an air link between France and her overseas territories and this is however not the case for Sint Maarten(SXM) as it is Dutch. French Sint Martin(STM) on the otherhand is a Department of Guadeloupe, so no direct link with France, but rather with Guadeloupe.


Watapana



SkyCruise Airlines- Your going places and SO are We!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting Watapana (Reply 19):
CDG functions for all international flights, while ORY is for all domestic flights of which FDF and PTP fall under (french overseas territories). And besides all AF flights to FDF and PTP are subsidised by the French Government, as AF must provide an air link between France and her overseas territories and this is however not the case for Sint Maarten(SXM) as it is Dutch. French Sint Martin(STM) on the otherhand is a Department of Guadeloupe, so no direct link with France, but rather with Guadeloupe.

Thanks for the explanation Watapana. Now I know why PTP/FDF are served from ORY instead of CDG. I didn't know this. You learn something new every day  Smile

A388


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21792 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 18):
So the 772ER can operate to/from SXM to Europe while the 773ER cannot due to its bigger size in case of a one engine out situation? The 772ER can arrive/depart SXM with one engine I assume? Air Europe (Italy) 772ER comes to mind.

Neither 772ER or 773ER can operate from SXM to Europe nonstop, because of being unable to meet engine-out requirements with the kind of fuel load that would be required. Which is not to say that a 777 cannot fly into SXM - it would just have to stop somewhere on the way back to Europe (which is probably what Air Europe did).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9940 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Which is not to say that a 777 cannot fly into SXM - it would just have to stop somewhere on the way back to Europe (which is probably what Air Europe did).

So where did the Air Europe stop? I thaught these flights were non-stops.

A388


User currently onlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

I read in a thread that AF was to going to serve SXM with 773ER a/c.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 22):
So where did the Air Europe stop?

Probably in Guadeloupe or SDQ, like SS does right now.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 23):
I read in a thread that AF was to going to serve SXM with 773ER a/c.

That's only a rumour. I don't think AF will ever change their equipment at SXM, the A343 is the perfect aircraft, given its capability to fly nonstop back from SXM to CDG with a reasonable payload. If, then AF would only fly the A332, but only as an aircraft substitution for when an A343 goes tech (though on some occasions, SS also flies their A332s to SXM).


25 A388 : I was thinking, the 777 operated to SXM before, so it can arrive/depart from SXM in a one engine failure scenario otherwise Air Europe wouldn't fly th
26 AlitaliaMD11 : I'm pretty sure it's a direct flight, CDG-SXM-CDG.
27 A388 : Oww I thaugt it was operated via PTP/FDF. AF also operated the flight via SDQ in the past. Thanks for the correction. A388
28 Watapana : AF operated her B747-200 flights from SXM via SDQ back to CDG. In 2001/2002 I believe, she began operating direct flights between CDG and SXM with an
29 Post contains images A388 : Thanks for the additional information Watapana A388
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