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First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific  
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14412 times:

hi

can anyone tell me the history behind non stop flights over the pacific. Non stop i mean as in from hkg to sfo or seoul to sfo and la etc. Which airline flew this the first and with what aircraft? These should be direct with no tech stops in the middle.

Also what was the general feeling among aviationists about this feat?

regards
nitin


I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14386 times:

Hmmm. Now you got me wondering as well. If I could guess, I would say PaNam from San Francisco to Tokyo.

User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14360 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
These should be direct with no tech stops in the middle.

Again, makes me wonder about any technical stops between Japan and ANC over the pacific? I have no idea, pls list.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14352 times:
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Pan Am flew the first nonstops SFO to HKG with 747SP in the late 1970's. They were the only one until the 744 came. NOW Cathay, Singapore and UA fly the route nonstop. SIA did fly nonstop HKG to SFO nonstop with a 743 in the 1980's before the 744's, the 743 had to fuel up in Honolulu for the trip back to HKG.

User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14227 times:

Didn't NW fly SEA-HND nonstop with a 707-320 before the 747 was born?

Tod


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14182 times:

I believe the first TransPacific nonstop flight was Pan Am flight 801 on April 25, 1976 JFK/NRT. This was a total of 6754 statute miles long.

Rgds,
Ed



Ed
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14136 times:

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 5):
believe the first TransPacific nonstop flight was Pan Am flight 801 on April 25, 1976 JFK/NRT. This was a total of 6754 statute miles long.

You mean there were no non-stop flights from the west coast to Japan prior to that flight. Also, there was no NRT airport in 1976.


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14136 times:

From http://www.scripophily.net/nooraianpa19.html

"The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, 1949 promotionOn 1 August 1949, Northwest took delivery of its first double-deck Boeing 377 Stratocruisers, which allowed the airline to establish higher service standards and reduce flight time. They were used to fly the Tokyo route nonstop from Seattle..."

Tod


User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14129 times:

Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931.

According to University of Miami's website, the first transpacific airmail flight was Alameda to Manila aboard a M-130 in November, 1935.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13980 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931.

According to University of Miami's website, the first transpacific airmail flight was Alameda to Manila aboard a M-130 in November, 1935.

Although I was not around then, I feel fairly sure they were not non-stop flights.


User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13818 times:

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight?

Thanks... yea i do mean scheduled passenger flights. Now a days its become so common to cross the pacific. But i am sure back in the day it must have seemed like an impossible feat. Similarly flying over the north pole now is just passe!

regards
nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13716 times:

Quoting Tod (Reply 7):
The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, 1949 promotionOn 1 August 1949, Northwest took delivery of its first double-deck Boeing 377 Stratocruisers, which allowed the airline to establish higher service standards and reduce flight time. They were used to fly the Tokyo route nonstop from Seattle..."

That was the first nonstop transatlantic from Seattle, and I'd guess that it is probably the first nonstop transpacific flight since Seattle is the closest city to Asia in the lower 48. Japan is closer to Seattle than most of Europe. The first Stratocruiser flight from SEA on NW also correlated with the opening of the new terminal.

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931

I doubt that this would be a nonstop flight. No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13677 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.

I thought they stopped off in Guam, or somewhere similar.


User currently offlineZudnic From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13664 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 10):

Although I was not around then, I feel fairly sure they were not non-stop flights.



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):

I doubt that this would be a nonstop flight. No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.

The InfoPlease.com article reads: (fair use exerpt)
"Hugh Herndon and Clyde Pangborn took off from Sabishiro Beach, Japan, dropped their landing gear, and flew 4,860 mi to near Wenatchee, Wash., in 41 hr. 13 min. (Oct. 4–5)."
According to the following highly relevant and detailed article, it appears that this was indeed the first nonstop transpacific crossing. It was not, however, a commercial flight.
http://www.historynet.com/exploration/adventurers/3030551.html

The 1935 crossing was the first COMMERCIAL one, and it appears the skepticism from Deaphen and RoseFlyer was correct regarding this one. I found an additional source that reads, "The aircraft completed the trip in six days, with a flying time of 59 hours, 48 minutes. Overnight stops included Honolulu, Midway, Wake Island, and Guam."
Source: http://www.flyingclippers.com/M130.html


User currently offlineCityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13632 times:

I know that PR was the first ASIAN airline to cross the pacific, MNL-SFO in 1946...

//Alex  wave 



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13578 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
That was the first nonstop transatlantic from Seattle, and I'd guess that it is probably the first nonstop transpacific flight since Seattle is the closest city to Asia in the lower 48. Japan is closer to Seattle than most of Europe. The first Stratocruiser flight from SEA on NW also correlated with the opening of the new terminal.

I just checked with my Grandma and it was quite a big deal in the day.
As she recalls (she 94, so . . .) my Grandfather, head of NW pacific station operations was either on the first flight or the return flight.

Even after that, NW still ran flights with other aircraft SEA - HND via Shemya Island. As she recalls, it was a stopover with a fancy dinner served while the plane was serviced.

Tod


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13452 times:

Dunno where that website got the idea that NW flew nonstop SEA-TYO with B377s-- I'm guessing they never attempted any such thing, even eastward. They might have done an occasional eastward nonstop with the 1049G, and maybe they even scheduled it nonstop with the DC-7C-- I'll check.

TYO-SEA nonstop with the DC-8-30 ... maybe.

In any case, Pan Am certainly scheduled TYO-SFO nonstop soon after getting their first 707-320Bs.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13390 times:

The 8/53 OAG shows no stops TYO-SEA for the NW B377, twice a week, but the schedule time was 18 hr 25 minutes so I assume there actually was a stop in there.

Pan Am's public timetables showed no stop TYO-SFO even before they got their -320Bs-- the 3/61 OAG shows 9 hr 30 min, so maybe that really was nonstop?


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13364 times:

Did NW or PA beat CP from YVR? Not sure, but was curious when CP started nonstop YVR-HND flights.

http://www.vancouverhistory.ca/chronology1953.htm

December 4, 1953

"December 4 A heavily-loaded Canadian Pacific Airlines airliner touched down at Vancouver International Airport at 12:42 a.m. to become the first plane in the world to fly non-stop from Tokyo to Vancouver. The big DC-6B also set a possible second world aviation record in completing what CPA officials believe is the longest commercial airlines passenger flight in history. The 4,800-mile (7,723-km) flight, with Capt. James Black of West Vancouver at the controls, was completed in 13 hours and 51 minutes flying time. Today, that same flight takes eight hours and 25 minutes."


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13329 times:

True enough, CP was known to fly Tokyo or Misawa nonstop to Vancouver, but doubtful that they ever actually scheduled it nonstop. (The OAG shows no stop in either direction, and I assume westward nonstop is out of the question.)

Edit: but maybe they did schedule a Britannia nonstop. We can't trust their OAG listings, so who knows.

[Edited 2006-09-02 01:37:24]

User currently onlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12059 times:
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for some reason i had the idea that JAL ran DC-10-40s between TYO and JFK, via the polar route, i'm led to believe that it's ability to fly this route nonstop was one of the reasons JAL ordered the DC-10-40


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineBAW716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11165 times:

NW operated 707-320Bs from SEA-HND in the late 1960s-early 70s before the 747 was introduced (NW 7 westbound)...I don't know if any prop aircraft had the range to make Japan-Seattle (or any other west coast city) with any kind of payload.

The history books pretty well agree that the first nonstop transpac flight was from Japan to Wenatchee, WA in 1931; but the first commercial flight? This info, so far, has been much more difficult to find.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineDJ748 From Australia, joined Jul 2006, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11080 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
NOW Cathay, Singapore and UA fly the route nonstop

Don't forget that QF also fly non-stop across the pacific from BNE-LAX, SYD-LAX/SFO and MEL-LAX. Am unsure when they started these non-stop though.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11067 times:
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This doesn't really apply, but my grandfather, retired figher pilot from WW2, told me that in 1944 the Air Force had a program running that allowed fighter pilots to fly an a/c back to the States puddling jumping across the Pac. He wanted to stay in one piece after he was shot down and go home to marry my grandmother and didn't pursue this oppurtunity.

The routing took them through SYD AKL MNL GUM HNL LAX etc.


User currently offlineAirLanka From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10201 times:

Loved flying UA business (first class withing US) class from MEL/SYD/SFO/SJC/AUS (on AA)/DEN/LAX/SYD/MEL two weeks ago..

Some of the Old ladies (flght attendents) gave motherly comforts and looked after me well. I wonder when UA is going to get some young FAs in their pacific routes...Never seen one yet..

Airlanka



A taste of Paradise
25 Nzrich : You wont unless one of the crew goes sick.. For UA crew the Australian and when they Operated them the New Zealand routes were some of the most sort
26 Post contains links NWDC10 : Here is some info you will be interested in: Airport History Spirit of Wenatchee Pangborn Memorial Airport has been in operation since 1941. It is nam
27 Post contains links NWDC10 : Just found this too: http://www.kpq.com/cgi/benews/be_news.cgi?show=article;articlenum=1112 Robert NWDC10
28 NZ8800 : When did the first nonstop Pacific Crossings from Auckland and Sydney to Los Angeles start? There's now AKL-SFO and SYD-SFO non-stop as well. Then the
29 NWDC10 : So i think i found your answere in "The First Non-Stop Flight Over The Pacific" in reply #26. Robert NWDC10
30 Skyguy : Ditto for AA. They use their "senior" crews for their NRT, South American and European routes as they get at least a 24 hour layover and then only ha
31 Post contains links NWDC10 : Also: http://www.misawajapan.com/aboutmisawa/then-now.htm Robert NWDC10
32 Timz : I think Pan Am flew nonstop from SYD in the late 1970s, with the 747SP.
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