Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Can This Old Bird Be Restored?  
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1822 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

Is it possible to restore this lovely old DC-7 to airworthiness?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tibor Mester



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M-A Veillard



It is indeed sad that it is rotting away (literally) as a firetrainer. And as far as I know, it is the most complete DC7 around (correct me on this one) and is an ideal candidate for restoration.


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

Anything can be restored, it is just a question of how much is one willing to invest in the plane's restoration. Whether someone is willing to put in enough money to restore this one, I have no idea.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1822 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7880 times:

Quite right, I hope someone does put in some cash. KLM should do it, it is their former airplane.

Here is a picture of the same bird in KLM livery

http://geta-o.maxs.jp/CIVIL/US/MDC/DC-7/ph-dsh(kl)dc-7-b5.JPG

[Edited 2006-09-04 19:44:12]


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

Saddest thing I ever saw was a DC-6 rot away at the end of runway 33 at LPLA, especially since I got to fly it from TER (LPLA) to LIS via PDL. In our climate it just fell to pieces. I hope this doesn't happen to this beauty.

LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineBa757gla From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

How many dc 7s are still flying then?

User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 4):
How many dc 7s are still flying then?

None see below

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Thread starter):
And as far as I know, it is the most complete DC7

I think it should be restored but like someone said it depeneds how much someones willling to invest!

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

There is an ex-Eastern DC-7B flying in the US.
The problem with the DC-7's and the L-1049 Connies, with the turbocompound R-3350, is that the fuel they were designed to use, 130/140 Octane, is no longer available and the engines have to be operated at much lower manifold pressures to avoid ignition. So these aircraft have to fly at lowered weights. This is the reason that R-2800 powered aircraft are relatively more likely to be flying.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6929 times:

The question is it Economically viable.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6914 times:

Quoting Broke (Reply 6):
So these aircraft have to fly at lowered weights.

How much of a penalty is there? Since they are not in regular service I would think this wouldn't be a major factor, unless its so substantial that you can't even carry enough high yield aircraft enthusiasts to subsidize your operating costs.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

I'm surprised I've never seen it in my travels through GVA as I travel through it quite frequently.

Anyone know precisely where it is located at GVA?

It seems to be in fairly reasonable condition and I hope someone does put the investment into restoring it. Maybe it can be bought by some enthusiasts who then collect donations to fund its restoration.

On Lake Geneva, the old 100 year old paddle steamers on the lakes are maintained and refurbished mainly through public donations from enthusiasts. They care a lot about preservation and restoration in Switzerland.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

Hi!

That DC-7C is well visible when you land at GVA, if you land from Lausanne side you should be seated on the left side of the airliner and you'll see it! If you land from Geneva side you must be seated on the right side or if you are on the left side you'll see it when the airliner leaves the runway and get's to the parking area. Last time I was in GVA, September 2004 I saw it there!!!
And regarding restoration, this DC-7C is actually in a very good condition to be restored, I've see much worst airplanes beeing restored to pritine condition!!! Take a look to this one:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fergal Goodman
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jim Newton



Like the rock group Queen would sing - "It's a miracle!"
Regards


User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1984 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

It's a shame that the MATS connie is no more. Now a static display in Korea.


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

Hi!

Yeah, it's really a pitty!!! I'm sure the koreans paid good money tough!
regards


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7808 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6681 times:

Display condition should be possible.

Airworthy would mean a full structural survey before you could answer that.


User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1822 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
The question is it Economically viable

It will not be. Profit is seldom the primary motive for any such restoration.

If it had been ''economically viable'' in the accepted sense of the word, that DC7 would have been flying already.

[Edited 2006-09-05 18:40:20]


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 982 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6369 times:

There is another ex-KLM DC-7C, (N777EA, ex PH-DSR) at Goodyear Az, complete and with a full pax interior. It would probably be a far better candidate for a restoration project if anyone was seriously contemplating this.

User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

Hey, if a doctor can restore Joan Rivers face, anything can be done! drunk 

Anyway, I would love to see it flying again.
It would be cool if KL restore one DC-7 and offer special flights, flying the same routes this beauties used to.

usadreamliner


User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Talk to these guys:

http://www.airlinehistorymuseum.com/connie.htm

http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-twa_75th_anniversary.htm



Airliners.net Moderator Team
User currently offlineFokker70NG From Netherlands, joined Nov 2005, 234 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 11):
It's a shame that the MATS connie is no more. Now a static display in Korea.

Yes it is. But there's still an airworthy L749 left, at the Aviodrome museum in Lelystad (The Netherlands) to be precise. It didn't fly for 2 years now due to a problem with one of the engines, but now we got 2 working ex-MATS Connie engines from Korea she'll be flying again rather sooner than later.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Klaas Reinder Sluijs



Quoting CV990 (Reply 12):

Yeah, it's really a pitty!!! I'm sure the koreans paid good money tough!

It was actually a gift. If I recall correctly it was Pratt & Whitney who bought her and gave her to Korean Air for their museum.



Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 16):
It would be cool if KL restore one DC-7 and offer special flights

KL is not into restoration.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 17):
Talk to these guys:

Don't need anybody for a job like that.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rob van Ringelesteijn



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Groot
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders


The experience is there just waiting for the cash, it's about time for another job anyway Big grin
Although personally I am not a DC4/6/7 fan.

Quoting Fokker70NG (Reply 18):
It was actually a gift. If I recall correctly it was Pratt & Whitney who bought her and gave her to Korean Air for their museum.

Correct Joost.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 14):
It will not be. Profit is seldom the primary motive for any such restoration.
If it had been ''economically viable'' in the accepted sense of the word, that DC7 would have been flying already.

If profit was are motivation we would have been broke long time ago.
The Connie is not even allowed to take passengers, the DC2 can but as far as I know that has never been done.
Apart from that EU regulations don't make an exception for historical A/C's(we now talk about Hysterical Aviation rather then Historical) anymore which led to an astronomical insurance of around 65.000EU p/y for the F27 for example(Connie is identical priced).
Basically that's the same as KL pays for their daily used B73..........
So if you are going to miss this brilliant aircrafts of the past or hate to see them chopped to pieces just say "Thank you European Union".
It's almost undoable anymore.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 13):
Display condition should be possible.

Probably yes but if used as fire trainer the smell will be hard to get rid of.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 13):
Airworthy would mean a full structural survey before you could answer that.

 checkmark 

I am sure the Aviodrome would love to put their hands on a DC4/6/7 if only they had a little bit of subsidy and/or sponsorship.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 19):
I am sure the Aviodrome would love to put their hands on a DC4/6/7 if only they had a little bit of subsidy and/or sponsorship.

Forgot the DC5 Big grin
Think KL was the only airliner to have it in the fleet for a while.

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 15):
There is another ex-KLM DC-7C, (N777EA, ex PH-DSR) at Goodyear Az, complete and with a full pax interior. It would probably be a far better candidate for a restoration project if anyone was seriously contemplating this.

If I am not mistaken this aircraft is owned by a religious plook or group like a sect who want to escape the earth on dooms day ?  angel 
Might be mistaken but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember this aircraft was the subject of an internal discussion a long time ago.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 10):
Hi!

That DC-7C is well visible when you land at GVA, if you land from Lausanne side you should be seated on the left side of the airliner and you'll see it! If you land from Geneva side you must be seated on the right side or if you are on the left side you'll see it when the airliner leaves the runway and get's to the parking area. Last time I was in GVA, September 2004 I saw it there!!!
And regarding restoration, this DC-7C is actually in a very good condition to be restored, I've see much worst airplanes beeing restored to pritine condition!!! Take a look to this one:

Have I missed something here?? The photos you've shown are L-749 Connies, not DC-7Cs.

amazonphil



If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 982 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 21):
Have I missed something here?? The photos you've shown are L-749 Connies, not DC-7Cs.

Look at the first post.

I think that the most that can realistically be hoped for is for the GVA DC-7C to be obtained for static preservation. It would have to be dismantled for transportation to a new location and the GVA airport authorities might also be looking for a new rescue trainer before they would part with it.

BTW there are also two other DC-7Cs in Europe and which have flown a lot more recently, but which have been parked for several years. These are the two Basaer ones at Cordoba, Spain. These also have illustrious histories, one being a former SAS aircraft and the other a onetime BOAC one.


User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 22):
Quoting Amazonphil (Reply 21):
Have I missed something here?? The photos you've shown are L-749 Connies, not DC-7Cs.

Look at the first post.

I think that the most that can realistically be hoped for is for the GVA DC-7C to be obtained for static preservation. It would have to be dismantled for transportation to a new location and the GVA airport authorities might also be looking for a new rescue trainer before they would part with it.

BTW there are also two other DC-7Cs in Europe and which have flown a lot more recently, but which have been parked for several years. These are the two Basaer ones at Cordoba, Spain. These also have illustrious histories, one being a former SAS aircraft and the other a onetime BOAC one.

I agree, I saw his first post but in talking about DC-7Cs in his post in Reply 10 but showing no DC-7Cs, why does he show 2 photos of Connies...but with no mention of the Connies at all??

Regards



If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4692 times:

I guess I figured in out,,,I think. He is using the Connies as an illustration on how the plane can go from total junk to prestine condition...ok got it now.
Seems he could have eluded in his post, something to that fact.

amazonphil

[Edited 2006-09-06 00:18:15]


If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
25 Scaledesigns : I remember being at Tucson Int. and seeing a DC7 sitting next to the last B377 and a few C97s being used as parts for the Guppy program.What a shame t
26 Post contains links and images JHSfan : Could be. As you can see below this DC-7 (N836D) flew from STP to OPF in 2004. Not because it was fully restored but because it was OK for a ferry fl
27 Falstaff : I am no airplane expert, I am an automotive technician. One thing I know is that with the know how, cash, and ambition you can fix anything. You could
28 CV990 : Hi! AmazonPhil, I just wanted to give an example how a very worn and very derelict airplane can actually become a nice looking preserved old airliner!
29 57AZ : No. Restoration of an aircraft of that vintage (while possible) is not economical. Having worked in the steam railroad preservation field, restoratio
30 CV990 : Hi! I agree with 57AZ!!! I also think that there are easier old airliners to maintain than others, for example a C-47/Dakota have much better chances
31 David L : I'm assuming the question was whether or not anyone would be prepared to spend the money to restore it for display purposes rather than whether or no
32 57AZ : Restoration can fall into one of two catagories: restoration for static display or restoration for non-profit operation and historic preservation. Re
33 Post contains images David L : Thanks, though I was just trying to clarify the question.
34 Aviopic : I don't see the difference between restoring a DC3 or DC7 and L749 or L1049 apart from the availability of parts maybe, the work remains the same alb
35 WesternA318 : Does anyone know if any ex-Continental prop-birds are still around?
36 Amazonphil : CO's DC-3 is still operational and in SUPER shape! Not sure where they keep it though. Maybe the Houston area somewhere. Regards
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Can This TWA 727 Be Identified posted Mon Jul 10 2006 18:46:20 by Falstaff
Can This Belgian Project Be Succesful? posted Fri May 31 2002 20:56:18 by Pressclub
Can This Be True- dc-9 sale query posted Mon Aug 7 2006 10:29:51 by Samair
How Can This Be "in Flight" posted Thu Apr 6 2006 09:34:06 by DLKAPA
How Can This Be Safe? Photo Of The Day. posted Mon Mar 27 2006 01:06:39 by Cadet57
Scheduled PH Twin Otter Flight...can This Be? posted Fri Jul 23 2004 15:50:47 by Chrisjake
Auction For Space A Can This Be Real - Any Ideas? posted Fri Jun 18 2004 00:40:18 by Monkey
Can Anyone Assist Me In IDing This Old Plane? posted Sat May 1 2004 06:39:10 by Kearnet
Can This Be Considered Official? posted Mon Apr 2 2001 04:07:12 by Boeing757fan
Can This Be True? posted Fri Feb 25 2000 00:39:15 by Bimmer202