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What Is US Long Term Plans For PIT?  
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 903 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8774 times:

US Airways has shifted its focus to PHI. PIT used to be a very busy airport. These days I see a lot of unused gates. What is their long term plans in terms of these two airports as hubs?


Only the paranoid survive
112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8727 times:

PIT is now a secondary hub for US. They are down to around 170 flights per day. Doug Parker said they are now making money at PIT and will keep it at this size for now.


Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 903 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8694 times:

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 1):
They are down to around 170 flights per day

That's too bad. A lot of investment went to that airport of the years. I feel bad for the airport authorities.



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineBdl2dca From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 2):
I feel bad for the airport authorities.

TW,

I don't particularly feel bad for the authorities. When the new PIT airport was built, US had hubs at CLT, PHL, PIT, DAY, BWI, and IND - not to mention significant connection opportunities at DCA, LGA and BOS. Anyone with any business sense would see that was unsustainable.

Second, PIT was on the decline as a "major" city. In some ways Alleghany County saw US as a savior for its woes, and pushed US to keep expanding its PIT ops, both flights and back-office.

Third, the ACAA's business plan for the new airport required higher landing fees than PHL or CLT. Just like CO and the DEN hub, if anything happened to US financially, PIT would be on the chopping block.

For a period of time, the Penn. authorities kept PIT open by offering incentives and, I even remember threats surrounding US's ability to hub at PHL being in jeopardy if they did not keep a hub at PIT. This kept the PIT hub going a lot longer.

I do miss the PIT hub. It was a nice way to get from a to b on US (Terminal E excepted). But the market just was not there. If one looked at the market in the 1980s when the new terminal was built, all the signs were already there. However, the politicians took the "if we build it, they will come" approach to airport building. It didn't work for YMX either.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8572 times:

City was on the decline but is now starting to come back. Traffic will also come back up. PIT probably will never see the numbers it once had but it will definately see an increase.


Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9116 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Quoting Bdl2dca (Reply 3):
I don't particularly feel bad for the authorities.

The authorities in my opinion were crooked from the start, and only got more crooked as the years went on... Because of their supremely high landing fees/gate fees, etc... US had to operate their flights at rediculously high fares to break even. Given that typical Pittsburghers look for bargains over top-dollar items, they would not want to pay some 3-400 dollars one way to the top destinations out of PIT (ORD, IAD, PHL, LGA...) Therefore, O&D was supremely low.

Many people now say that US has essentially said "screw you" to PIT, Allegheny County and the City of Pittsburgh; I was one of them. However, it was the airport authority that screwed themselves out of a very financially sustainable, sizeable hub operation that US had there.

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 4):
City was on the decline but is now starting to come back. Traffic will also come back up. PIT probably will never see the numbers it once had but it will definately see an increase.

True!

Take a look at downtown and all of its new proposals. Pittsburgh is morphing into more of a cosmopolitan city, an affordable cosmopolitan city unlike New York or San Fran. The housing market is skyrocketing in downtown, Oakland, and in East Liberty. Mayor Bob O'conner, may he rest in peace, finally got some very aggressive proposals off the drawing board and under construction. I said before, I give it about 10 years, not even, before things really start taking shape.

I saw the proposal for the Cultural district housing plan. They want to put a dozen residential buildings down there, 4 of them 20 to 30 floors in height! The 151 Firstside and 7th Avenue towers are roughly half filled, and are filling up just as fast as they are going up.

The International Office complex on the South Side has been approved by the city and should begin going up soon. 50 Asian companies have signed an agreement to open up shop there already.

A booming residential market in downtown, a desire to want to come back to downtown, other companies willing to relocate in Pittsburgh, existing companies expanding here, demand for air travel will increase; it's not a matter of IF in that regard... How much comes back and what that will determine or require later on will be the factor. Will another airline set up a hub at PIT? Will there be multiple focus cities here - will B6, WN, and US be the top 3 airlines there?

It comes down to all of that, and how willing are the A.C.A.A. to open the playing table to the airlines currently serving PIT as well as the ones that wish to serve it someday. (Lower those fees!!!)



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8409 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
How much comes back and what that will determine or require later on will be the factor. Will another airline set up a hub at PIT? Will there be multiple focus cities here - will B6, WN, and US be the top 3 airlines there?

PIT already has a LOT of traffic of which other cities of its size and economic output would be jealous. In this case, competition is showing its economic benefits. US is making money again at its hub offering 170 or so flights. B6 and WN are in the market, lowering fares on big O&D markets.

It is great to hear that the city is rebounding. And PIT won't have to worry for a very long time about building a new terminal at their airport to support traffic.

That doesn't change the fact that the ACAA screwed the pooch when it built the terminal in the 80s, however.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8409 times:

Quoting Bdl2dca (Reply 3):
I do miss the PIT hub. It was a nice way to get from a to b on US (Terminal E excepted). But the market just was not there. If one looked at the market in the 1980s when the new terminal was built, all the signs were already there. However, the politicians took the "if we build it, they will come" approach to airport building. It didn't work for YMX either.

While quite a few connection opportunities are gone, PIT is still available for a connection from most major cities. US is at a state where the PAX they are carrying out of PIT are people from Pittsburgh (which is good)! I think US will be bringing back service to the cities that really need service, and drop cities that lose the demand for service. Currently, I only see a few cities coming back online within the next year....

PIT-MCI
PIT-DTW
PIT-MSP
and hopefully PIT-Texas!



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 7):
While quite a few connection opportunities are gone,

It's not just that. It is also that PIT has a lot of RJ flights. And while I would gladly connect from one E70 to another, I'll go to CLT or PHL to avoid CRJs and ERJs.

Most of the time, now-a-days, I end up over at UA out of IAD and avoid the connection altogether.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8381 times:

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 8):
It's not just that. It is also that PIT has a lot of RJ flights. And while I would gladly connect from one E70 to another, I'll go to CLT or PHL to avoid CRJs and ERJs.

Hey, w/e! I would rather be on an RJ any day than go through PHL, but that is Def. just me! Do you ever connect through Pittsburgh?



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 9):
Hey, w/e! I would rather be on an RJ any day than go through PHL, but that is Def. just me! Do you ever connect through Pittsburgh?

Hahaha yeah, I hear you on that one. I don't really have a reason to connect at PHL anymore because there aren't many places north and east of DC which you cannot get to nonstop out of DCA.

As far as connecting in PIT, no not really. I went from flying an average of 70,000 miles a year (for 2002-2005) to flying 6,000 so far this year. There was a time when I was in PIT twice a week (DCA-PIT-FWA, FWA-PIT-DCA) two weeks a month for six months. Yeah, that was the year of 67 segments.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8363 times:

Another factor that people forget is just how dramatically US Airways has shrunk in the past decade. Hundreds of jets were turned back - F-28s, F-100s, 727s, MD-80s, 732s, 733s, 734s - and quite simply, the mainline fleet is a fraction of what it used to be. There just aren't enough planes to go around, and PIT was the odd city out.


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Thread starter):
PIT used to be a very busy airport. These days I see a lot of unused gates. What is their long term plans in terms of these two airports as hubs?

As for PITs unsued space the possibilities are endless. Everything from the worlds largest paper weight to a bowling ally come to mind.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
It comes down to all of that, and how willing are the A.C.A.A. to open the playing table to the airlines currently serving PIT as well as the ones that wish to serve it someday. (Lower those fees!!!)

If you lower the fees how is the debt going to be serviced? They kind of screwed themselves there. Unless of course you want your taxes to go up to pay for it? However, higher taxes will slow redevelopement. The city wanted it, put on the credit card and now they have to pay for it.



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8240 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 11):
There just aren't enough planes to go around, and PIT was the odd city out.

This is only somewhat true. I think PIT would have ended up in this current state wheather US was receiving deliveries, or was returning aircraft. Now US will slowly grow, or slowly cut back PIT, whatever the future holds!



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9116 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 12):
If you lower the fees how is the debt going to be serviced? They kind of screwed themselves there. Unless of course you want your taxes to go up to pay for it? However, higher taxes will slow redevelopement. The city wanted it, put on the credit card and now they have to pay for it.

Lower costs entices more airlines to come in and serve the airport and region. They don't necessarily have to keep them low all the time. Lower them, other airlines will very willingly come in... Then, after a while, slowly increase the fees to boost revenue.

Yeah, I am no fan of higher taxes. Raise taxes, and scare away your paying customers/residents, etc... I see it pretty much the same way with the airport ops fees... Raise fees, and run your airlines out of the area, then it doesn't matter what is going on at the airport because you've then scared all of your money making operations away, and the airport is making next to nothing if anything at all...

I dunno, I guess the ACAA really did screw themselves over big in building the new facility for US which was abandoned 12 years later by US. I often wonder now what would have been if the old Greater PIT terminal was still functional...

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 13):
Now US will slowly grow, or slowly cut back PIT, whatever the future holds!

I am praying for the first one there! I hope they do bring some of it back as they continue to grow! May PIT rise like a phoenix and be the facility it once was...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7945 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):
I dunno, I guess the ACAA really did screw themselves over big in building the new facility for US which was abandoned 12 years later by US. I often wonder now what would have been if the old Greater PIT terminal was still functional...

It wouldn't be able to handle the traffic. The way that US has their schedules set up, during certain times of the day, there would be so many people crammed into that terminal it would be a pain in the butt just like PHL. The new one has plenty of room to grow and to handle the traffic rushes. Plus if airlines wanted to come back or grow, the old terminal wouldn't handle more pax.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Will another airline set up a hub at PIT? Will there be multiple focus cities here - will B6, WN, and US be the top 3 airlines there?

I would rather see a multiple focus city as opposed to one airline dominating the airport. Look at Boston Logan. Great example there.



Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineIADCRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 332 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
Mayor Bob O'conner, may he rest in peace, finally got some very aggressive proposals off the drawing board and under construction. I said before, I give it about 10 years, not even, before things really start taking shape.

Slightly off the topic, I do have to second you on this quote. I strongly believe that O'Conner probably accomplished more for the benefit of the city during the few months that he was in office, than probably what Murphy did so thourghout his ten years or so in the mayor's office.


User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7899 times:

Quoting IADCRJ (Reply 16):
Slightly off the topic, I do have to second you on this quote. I strongly believe that O'Conner probably accomplished more for the benefit of the city during the few months that he was in office, than probably what Murphy did so thourghout his ten years or so in the mayor's office.

I just hope the guy taking his place is going to complete everything Bob wanted done and make the city shine!!



Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineIADCRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 332 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7875 times:

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 17):
I just hope the guy taking his place is going to complete everything Bob wanted done and make the city shine!!

Second that


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2064 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

US at Pittsburgh is almost a mirror image of what AA has done at St. Louis. We've seen some mainline additions here and there to major markets, quite a few additional rj markets, and some small schedule subtractions. A little right sizing here and there and it all really adds up to very little. Large scale changes are extremely unlikely as US management has the benefit of financial results at Pittsburgh in the past years.

With that being said, Pittsburgh has assumed its role in US's network, which is unfortunately an expendable focus city. Although I don't expect any large scale changes, there should be some small additions as demand to some markets is a little undercut from the looks of it. If Pittsburgh is really looking to get something done, I'd beat down Southwest's door.


User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 19):
If Pittsburgh is really looking to get something done, I'd beat down Southwest's door.

I second that.

I heard today that AA is supposed to add mainline flights back sometime soon. Not sure when. Heard it from a pilot.



Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7330 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7740 times:

PIT is not going to be much more than it is for US in the forseeable future. PIT does still have some major market services on US, thats about all that can be hoped for. Any expansion I dont see unless Southwest decides to do it. US will focus on PHL and its new west coast hubs (formerly America West Hubs) now.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9116 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 15):
It wouldn't be able to handle the traffic. The way that US has their schedules set up, during certain times of the day, there would be so many people crammed into that terminal it would be a pain in the butt just like PHL.

Ugh, and it figures really...

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 15):
Plus if airlines wanted to come back or grow, the old terminal wouldn't handle more pax.

Yeah, the new terminal would've been needed anyway. Besides, with the original setup of the old terminal, you really could not expand any further, unless that setup was arranged in the fashion as the current terminal is. You'd have the "massive" airside terminal (former PIT terminal) with ample room for many airside terminals. But... I like the terminal the way it is!!!

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 15):
I would rather see a multiple focus city as opposed to one airline dominating the airport. Look at Boston Logan. Great example there.

Ditto that here! That's what I think will end up happening here as well. US already has a sizeable one in place, but I would love to see another carrier establish a focus city there. Yes, BOS is pretty darned large, ant it is mostly all-focus city there. As is JFK, believe it or not, with the exception of DL...

Quoting IADCRJ (Reply 16):
Slightly off the topic, I do have to second you on this quote. I strongly believe that O'Conner probably accomplished more for the benefit of the city during the few months that he was in office, than probably what Murphy did so thourghout his ten years or so in the mayor's office.

It was off topic, but I brought that in to tie it in with the future of air travel demand... I do agree with that last bit though especially!

Quoting IADCRJ (Reply 18):
Quoting Luketenley (Reply 17):
I just hope the guy taking his place is going to complete everything Bob wanted done and make the city shine!!

Second that

He should. He is a 28-year-old fmr Council President and he exhibited some excitement over what O'Connor was doing with the city.

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 20):
Quoting LambertMan (Reply 19):
If Pittsburgh is really looking to get something done, I'd beat down Southwest's door.

I second that.

I heard today that AA is supposed to add mainline flights back sometime soon. Not sure when. Heard it from a pilot.

That would be nice to see some AA mainline birds back in da burgh. I wonder if they're going to upgrade the Eagle service on PIT-DFW or PIT-ORD to mainline. That would make sense...

If AA does that with ORD service, then WN I am sure would add another freq to MDW. If it's DFW, the WN will do nothing, obvious reasons...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
That would be nice to see some AA mainline birds back in da burgh. I wonder if they're going to upgrade the Eagle service on PIT-DFW or PIT-ORD to mainline. That would make sense...

If AA does that with ORD service, then WN I am sure would add another freq to MDW. If it's DFW, the WN will do nothing, obvious reasons...

I think he was referring to STL, not PIT.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 19):
If Pittsburgh is really looking to get something done, I'd beat down Southwest's door.

With WN already serving Pittsburgh, I am not sure what else can be done? It seems as though WN is done?

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
I think he was referring to STL, not PIT.

NO, Luketenley said he heard from a pilot that AA is considering adding back mainline to PIT. I would have to assume this would be PIT-DFW.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
25 Luketenley : The AA flights would more then likely serve DFW since most of the rj's are full. Service to Chicago is limited because of competition with WN. As far
26 USPIT10L : Sorry, I thought LambertMan said that. Yeah, it'd be DFW. ORD-PIT hasn't been mainline since 1994-95, with F100s, now long gone from AA. I wonder wha
27 Bnamaxx : The same can be said for AA at BNA. While I'm sure a new terminal would have been built eventually, AA's need for a connecting hub precipitated build
28 BigJimFX : I too have felt the pain of the PIT decline. Flying from DFW to PIT, then on to JST was great. Now I have to connect through CLT, then to PIT. NO BUEN
29 Luketenley : Same thing with PHL. They keep jamming more flights there when they already have tons of delays. Good luck to US though.. sarcastically.
30 CentPIT : I am happy to hear you are still coming through PIT (I know you don't have a choice) though! DFW might come back, NEVER no!
31 Commavia : I doubt CLE will get mainline back anytime soon, although it might be possible after a few years with maybe 1-2 of the flights to DFW. Same with CVG
32 HPRamper : CLT is a very nice terminal. And the finger concourses serve their purpose very effectively (mainly to accomodate regional flights). I'm sure most peo
33 CentPIT : I agree that it is nicer than PHL, but it isn't nicer than PIT, DEN, or DTW! CLT reminds me more of SEA. The delays aren't bad, but the airports are
34 FCYTravis : CLT is a very nice hub facility - easy to get around, convenient and fairly modern. The Concourse E RJ/prop terminal is one of the best Express facili
35 HPRamper : DTW is really nice because it's NW's big international terminal. If anything I wish PHL was more like the WorldGateway. CLT, like MSP, is very ok. I'
36 CentPIT : I was more or less comparing CLT and SEA in the sense of I hate being there. The facilities are boring. I think it is sweet that someone can come off
37 Steeler83 : If he is going to a city like DTW or DFW on US, or Transatlantic/Caribbean, then he does have a point in going to another city besides PIT. If it's to
38 N670UW : There is a A321 that arrives in PIT from PHL in the evening and then departs to FLL in the morning. Another arrives from PHL in the morning and conti
39 EVA777SEA : New A concourse...New Central Terminal!!?!
40 Steeler83 : Oh, well thanks for the info!
41 FCYTravis : I wouldn't be surprised if PIT-DFW came back with E170/175 aircraft.
42 Vega : I wouldn't take comments leading to your reply too seriously. Many people bash airports they have been to Never or Once just to highlight their own a
43 PHLapproach : Go back to PHL and take a look at B and C...
44 CentPIT : I have been through SEA quite a few times Vega, thanks though! I was not bashing SEA, my longest delay was only 2 hours due to MX issues, so no compl
45 Luketenley : Yeah I heard this as a rumor as well. Hope its not true. The employees still commuting to work will have problems.
46 HPAEAA : Thank you Commavia, Your right, MQ stations can operate AA Metal upto 7X daily... however in the past after closing an AA station they wait about atl
47 Luketenley : It will be a year this January that they took mainline from PIT.
48 Joeman : So it looks that to a certain degree, the incentive is there to actually and deliberately use the biggest hubs and make them even stronger with conne
49 Steeler83 : Besides MD80s to DFW and ORD, what other aircraft did AA fly into PIT?
50 CentPIT : Correct, I don't see it coming back right away, but we can only hope. PIT-DFW is now 6 daily CR7s up from 5 daily CR7s. Even 1 MD-80 would be nice. A
51 HPAEAA : true, but being 6'3 I find the time is worth it...
52 COERJ145 : Or NW at MEM, DL at CVG, or CO at CLE.
53 CentPIT : I agree with you.........CVG will be losing some flights here again shortly. PIT is going to be fine! Everything happens for a reason!
54 LambertMan : Sort of. American at St. Louis and US Airways at Pittsburgh are now inteded to serve the local population plus some overflow traffic to major destina
55 KingGeo3 : There sure were! I remember back in '93 flying PIT-ORD-TXL and the PIT-ORD segment was on a 727 and the ORD-TXL leg was on a 762. -KG3
56 Luketenley : Yeah. They can come in with their lower costs and take over many markets if they wanted to. Alot of airlines still have high prices from PIT. WN is k
57 CentPIT : No, I never said that PIT should be a mega station for WN. I said the largest the station may ever get will be between 45 and 70 flights. I don't con
58 N670UW : I wonder if gate space has become an issue. Southwest is pretty maxed out at A1 and A3 with 20 daily flights. I know they use A5 on occasion as well,
59 USPIT10L : A5 is still a US Airways Express gate AFAIK, especially during the day. WN uses A5 for RONs at night, but that plane gets towed over to A1 in the mor
60 CentPIT : I highly doubt that gates would be preventing WN from expanding. I am sure the Airport Authority would work something out for WN. Even if it involved
61 Jsposaune : Negative. A5 is a WN gate. WN also parks a RON at A7, but it it towed to the first available gate in the morning. US Express doesn't use A5 at any po
62 Luketenley : I was going to mention that US doesnt use it anymore. WN has all their computer equipment at the gate as well as equipment outside on the ramp. The o
63 Steeler83 : I am wondering this myself. How long before PIT-BWI,IAD,DTW,BNA, or RDU are launched? Perhaps a little off topic, but what is the latest on B6 servic
64 Tooluther : I flew B6 BOS-PIT after the terrible Clemson/BC game last weekend. The flight was pretty full. My flight and my freinds flight to Boston on US were f
65 Steeler83 : Ok, so it looks like BOS is doing ok. I guess JFK service isn't doing so hot according to the thread about B6 new E90 service. I guess, and hope, tha
66 Post contains links CentPIT : WN may use the gate, but are they just paying for it on an as used basis? www.southwest.com and www.flypittsburgh.com do not show A5 as a WN gate in
67 Luketenley : Well they use it. They have their own equipment there at the gate to scan tickets. They dont use it as much as 1 and 3 but they do some overnighters a
68 CentPIT : Thats what I meant, they aren't considering it a "full-time" WN gate as of yet! US Airways Express probably uses as needed as well!
69 Vega : It's interesting that Pittsburgh's metro population (MSA) is higher than Cleveland - by a small margin, however CLE will have 2 flights to Europe by 2
70 Joeman : True, although CVG is located in Kentucky and doesn't serve as a hub specific to Ohio, whereas PHL could be interpreted as being one for PA specific
71 Steeler83 : Sure, but I don't see this happening with LH though... They said that FRA-PIT-FRA was not feasible; not sure how CLE would look in this possibility r
72 CentPIT : As far as I know, LH has a few A330s around. I know some of them were operating into PHL about 1 year ago. I hope PIT is able to attract something? I
73 Vega : Actually they have 12 and have been using that aircraft once daily to Detroit (DTW) and to Washington (IAD) for some time. The typical version of the
74 Post contains images Steeler83 : Ok... I did not realize any of that. I forgot that they had A330 aircraft. OOPS!!! Still, considering current international O&D out of PIT, 150 ppl a
75 Joeman : CLE-FRA would not be feasible either, but a combination of the two cities might be. LH is just an example for my silly concept. It's just a pipedream
76 MasseyBrown : CLE O&D is about 60% of CO's total CLE traffic, according to DOT numbers; that percentage will no doubt drop in 2007 when Commutair's bigger planes s
77 CentPIT : Well for one CVG's O&D is lower than CLE's and PIT's. I believe Pittsburgh's O&D PAX account for about 60% of all traffic as well. O&D as of 2005: CL
78 Vega : The 2005 Domestic O&D for PIT was 68.75%.[Edited 2006-09-16 23:35:25]
79 Luketenley : Man where do you guys get this info???
80 Steeler83 : Aviation junkies I suppose. I wish I was one and had access to this as well. Man, this is really turning into a hobby for me! Even though there are p
81 Jsposaune : Nope....we (I mean they!) don't. It's all WN, all the time!
82 Post contains links CentPIT : Ok, well, why doesn't WN post the gate as their own? Why doesn't www.flypittsburgh.com recognize it as well? I do believe you though, I am just askin
83 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Where did I get the numbers? CO has stated its hub numbers pretty regularly in its earnings conference calls; their hubs all have a pretty high % of
84 CentPIT : I think they meant Vega, you , and I. Maybe I am wrong though haha!
85 Post contains images Steeler83 : I say in the ball park of 70 or 71%. It's rather modest, but I think it's realistic as PIT's O&D is rising. Slowly, but it is surely (shirly) going u
86 NWADC9 : F100's, 727's, and weren't there 707's and 1-11's here as well? And I think 737-800's replaced MD-80's sometimes. Probably the same reason like D85 a
87 Jdwfloyd : The dont because it is still considered a common use gate. WN will not pay for a gate full time that the will only use part time. Anyone can use A5,
88 Steeler83 : Well, perhaps WHEN WN adds more destinations or adds more frequencies, that gate will become a necessity, being that A1 and 3 are maxed out. And it i
89 MasseyBrown : Sorry. I meant to speak only for myself and let Luke know that it's all public - I don't know anything proprietary.
90 CentPIT : I mean actual numbers. I think the percentage will be between 71% and 78%! OK? I don't know the reason for D85 and NW.......common use? No reason to
91 NWADC9 : D85 was (still is, maybe?) a pure-NW gate for overflow when D81 and D83 were both in use. FlyPittsburgh.com never marked it as their gate, but there
92 Luketenley : Just letting you guys know that on Wikipedia.. Southwest is listed to have 3 gates... A1, A3, & A5.
93 Steeler83 : Perhaps they are contemplating adding a couple destinations... PVD and BWI??? RDU perhaps??? I am actually starting to lean towards BWI and RDU, cons
94 ERJ170 : Perhaps it is just me, but I'm thinking US service between PIT-RDU is more than sufficient. There are only around 130 daily pax. And with US offering
95 FCYTravis : That's almost certainly because someone who reads A.net decided to change it, regardless of whether it's actually correct or not. It is a gigantic pa
96 Post contains images Steeler83 : Only 130 daily pax between PIT and RDU does seem rather odd, but you might know more than I do about the route, so I'll take your word for it I guess
97 ERJ170 : Nah.. I was actually talking about WN doing RDU-DEN.. I do believe that PIT has multiple DEN flights..
98 NWADC9 : Three, to be exact. There are two for UA and one for US.
99 Post contains images Steeler83 : Oh yeah, you're right, there are no flights AT ALL between DEN and RDU. I must have misinterpreted the post, considering that this thread is about US
100 FCYTravis : That regional feeder service is massively unprofitable unless it's either high-yield O&D traffic or it's feeding a monster connecting hub. PIT is no
101 Post contains images Steeler83 : So in general, PIT was just one massive suck-ass, money losing money hole. Regional feeder AND mainline were losing money... Well... here's to things
102 CentPIT : You also have to consider the fact that if WN were to enter PIT-RDU, the fare would be much cheaper than what US offers the route for. I believe US c
103 Post contains images Steeler83 : Oh I am sure of that myself, pal Yeah I thought it was, but they were actually talking about RDU not PIT. Given that this thread regards PIT, that th
104 Silentbob : A lot of MDT area travelers fly out of PHL or BWI.
105 Steeler83 : I know they do; there's another thread regarding those travelers... I also posted on the thread, "How's PHL for connection" about the E concourse bei
106 Luketenley : I havent heard any remarks to this yet. I dont think they will spend the money to demolish it with potential maybe to use it down the road. Who knows.
107 Post contains images Steeler83 : It is fairly early I guess to speculate what will happen with that terminal. It's been vacated what, 3 years ago when US was beginning to dehub PIT? I
108 FCYTravis : No. PIT made perfect sense as long as people were willing to pay $800 to fly between IND and BGR via PIT. US could make bank off all that connecting
109 Luketenley : Before the FBO Avcenter was built, it wouldve been a good place for charter aircraft, but you wouldve had to deal with the security lines and stuff.
110 Pgh234 : FCYTravis: That was one of the most simple yet most educated explainations for the de-hubbing of PIT that I have seen expressed on this board in the h
111 CentPIT : I agree, PIT is being used how it works best for all of the airlines serving it....
112 Steeler83 : Yeah, and now we can only hope that the local O&D can continue to grow, to bring back more service. Regarding the old E concourse. I figured they cou
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