Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will LH Order The B-747-800I This Year?  
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11554 times:

LH is ripe for a renewed long haul fleet moderninaztion. It looks like they just got a great deal on the A-330-200 from Airbus because of the A-380-800 delays.

But, getting the new A-330s and A-380s is not enough to begin fleet replacement on the older B-747-400s and A-340-300s at LH. The way I see it, LH could order up to 30 new B-747s. They may even consider ordering some B-747-800Fs?

Is Boeing in a good position to offer the B-747-800I to LH with deliveries beginning in 2010? LH would become a launch customer and be able to greatly influence the final design.

If LH ordered the B-747-8I, would that begin a small number of orders (each) from QF, NZ, UA, JL, and possibly BA and NW?

123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

Not sure but when it comes to B 747-400 replacement, I think LH will order the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

I don't see NZ, UA, JL, or NW ordering anything as large as the B747-8. LH, QF, and BA are possibilities.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11503 times:

NZ and UA have expressed interest in the B 747-8. Also many of JL, NW's routes require the size of the B 747-8. I believe the airlines you mentioned above are potential B 747-8 buyers

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11453 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
many of JL, NW's routes require the size of the B 747-8.

JL and NW operate all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the B747-8.


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11453 times:

I think LH is looking at 747-8 only to get more A380 cheaper. The 747-8F could be in the game for lufthansa cargo since they have only MD-11

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11439 times:

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 5):
I think LH is looking at 747-8 only to get more A380 cheaper.

Are you suggesting that LH will leave a gap in their fleet between the A340-600 and the WhaleJet?


User currently offlineBoeingguy1 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11439 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
JL and NW operate all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the B747-8.

I think what he was trying to say that JL and NW utilize their 744s on the routes that the 748 would potentially replace.



Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11439 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
JL and NW operate all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the B747-8.

Technically every airline in the world operates all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the 748.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11420 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 8):
Technically every airline in the world operates all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the 748.

That's right. Therefore saying that any route "requires" an aircraft the size of the B747-8 is demonstrably false. Routes require an aircraft with a minimum range, but not a minimum size.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11398 times:

I bet 90% of the 747-8I orders will be frieghters for the next 5 years.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7064 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11398 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 10):
I bet 90% of the 747-8I orders will be frieghters for the next 5 years.

I highly doubt that all delivered 747-8Is will be converted into 747-8Fs  Wink



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11350 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 11):
I highly doubt that all delivered 747-8Is will be converted into 747-8Fs

Sorry. I meant that 90% of all 747-8's would be of the F variety.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11335 times:

LH is certainly looking at it, and given their continued interest (LH said that they wanted that plane 10 years ago), I'd say if they don't order the 747-8 now, they'll eventually order it. It would be the perfect gapfiller.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31009 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11234 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

LH originally rejected the 747-X in favor of the A380. After the passenger traffic drop-offs post-9/11 and post-SARS, LH expressed interest in the 747-X because they feared they might be flying a number of empty seats on their A380s.

I do not know LH's pax loads on their 744 routes on a daily, weekly, monthly, or annual basis. That being said, for 744 routes that consistently go out full or oversold, the A380 is the likely choice. For those routes that fluctuate more, but on the lower end match or exceed an A346's capacity, then the 748 could be a more likely option.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11190 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 10):
I bet 90% of the 747-8I orders will be frieghters for the next 5 years.

I bet 90% of all 747 ordered during the last 5 years were freighters. Probably more then 90% (100%?).

Lufthansa doesn't seem the airline to me willing to become the launch customer for the 747-8i. Perhaps JAL, PIA, AC or UA..


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11183 times:

Could it be the B-747-800I is more appealing at US airports, because they don't need infastructure improvements? Where as to support the A-380, they do need them? Yes, airports like LAX, JFK, and SFO will make the improvements. But, ALT will not, and it is doubtful that DFW, IAH, ORD, BOS, DET, SEA and a few others will, either. The costs just don't justify it for the number of A-380 movements they might see. Until Airbus can work some deal with all these airports, and others, it will effect A-380 sales and make the B-747 more attractive, that will effect future airline considerations of the A-380. After all, the airlines don't want to pay for these improvements, either.

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8280 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11134 times:

I think it might be helpful for Boeing to first finalize the length of the 748i - and this is probably going to be determined by the airlines that will potentially buy the largest fleets. When that's taken care of I can see LH and a few others going for the launch discounts. Can the details be finalized by the end of the year? No clue on that, but if they can than an order for LH is possible.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11134 times:

I think many US airports where making noise during the last few years on being unwilling to adjust for A380's.

Most are adjusting by now. Lets say they are customer focussed again after being financing focussed.

They don't want to be left out, is another way of saying it.


User currently offlineDeputydawghere From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11077 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
I don't see NZ, UA, JL, or NW ordering anything as large as the B747-8. LH, QF, and BA are possibilities.

I'm curious as to your reasoning on this. As an example, isn't the 747-400 quite a successful plane for UA on their longhaul flights to destinations such as Australia? Of course, with oil prices jumping all over the place maybe that's not even the case anymore. Which plane would be better suited as a replacement in both pax capacity and fuel efficiency than the 747-8? I don't see UA incorporating A380's into their fleet. Thanks for any information my friend.



N/A
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11063 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):

I do not know LH's pax loads on their 744 routes on a daily, weekly, monthly, or annual basis. That being said, for 744 routes that consistently go out full or oversold, the A380 is the likely choice.

That would be true if the WhaleJet had a lower CASM than the SuperJumbo. Dubious.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
Lufthansa doesn't seem the airline to me willing to become the launch customer for the 747-8i. Perhaps JAL, PIA, AC or UA..

There is no chance of AC ordering the SuperJumbo. They got rid of all their Jumbos because they were too large. JL and UA are also unlikely to order anything so large.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31009 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11005 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
Could it be the B-747-800I is more appealing at US airports, because they don't need infrastructure improvements? Where as to support the A-380, they do need them?

US airports that will see occasional A380 sorties probably won't spend a great deal of money upgrading, but then, such sorties will probably not be an undue burden on them or their passengers. Sure, it will be annoying having to queue a bit longer to check-in, board, disembark, and clear C&I, but it should be manageable.

As Keesje noted, US airports that will see multiple A380 sorties are making the changes they need to do to ensure that traffic continues to use them, since that traffic will pay for those improvements in the end.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
(The idea that heavily loaded 744 routes would be replaced with A380s) would be true if the WhaleJet had a lower CASM than the SuperJumbo. Dubious.

Yet if LH can generate more RASM by being able to better meet demand, is a slightly higher CASM all that important? I might be on the wrong track here, but if a 748 has a hypothetical CASM of 8 cents a seat and the A380 has one of 9 cents, if a 748 makes a hypothetical 9 cents RASM per seat and an A380 makes 11 (say because it has more premium seats and sells more of them thanks to better amenities), is not the A380 the better fiscal choice? For every extra cent you pay to operate it, you bring in two extra cents of revenue vs. one cent extra with the 748.


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10996 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
WhaleJet?

I suppose you mean A380?

But Emirates has also a gap betwen 777-300 and A380.


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Are you suggesting that LH will leave a gap in their fleet between the A340-600 and the WhaleJet?

as someone else has already stated in another thread:
now as LH is further stretching the 747-8 to match the fuselage length of the freighter version, the 747-8 comes closer to the A380 in size (don't know the exact specifics). there still is a gap to fill between the A380 and A346, but now the question is, is it still viable to introduce an additional fleet type, now that it's closer to the A380.



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10935 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
JL and NW operate all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the B747-8.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 8):
Technically every airline in the world operates all of their routes using aircraft smaller than the 748.

That's right. Therefore saying that any route "requires" an aircraft the size of the B747-8 is demonstrably false. Routes require an aircraft with a minimum range, but not a minimum size.

Trying to be a smart ass? Using that as an argument to underline why a certain airline won't order the type is the same as saying no Airline requires the B747-8I.

And yes, if you have a route that is slot restricted on one of both ends, and you can't add additional frequencies, then the route definitely requires a larger aircraft.

ciao
Daniel


25 EI321 : Highly unlikely EK need yet another VLA, But who knows. Personally I think they need to concentrate on filling all those A380s.
26 PADSpot : The severest investment for airports to adjust to the A380 (in case they were B747-ready before) are larger gate-areas and additional boarding bridge
27 Stitch : I imagine this is intentional on EK's part for, as EI321 notes they have so much incoming capacity they need to force pax onto the A380. Adding the 7
28 Zvezda : UA bought the JumboJet for its OZ ops because at the time it was the only aircraft with sufficient range. If I were buying aircraft for UA to replace
29 Stitch : Yet Airbus and their supporters say the A380's amenities will be better then anything else. Even if an A380 and a 747-8 have identical seating in ide
30 Astuteman : I think you have a fair point, Stitch. It's easy for some people to get hooked up on Cost alone (or CASM), but a larger aircraft can still generate m
31 RJ111 : I don't think the gap in between the A346/773ER and A380 is a problem that all airlines will feel the need to address. A lot of the busy routes the 74
32 Deputydawghere : Thanks for your information, however, I see UA eventually replacing their 747-400's with 747-8's when they're in the financial position to do so. UA
33 Jacobin777 : I have read UA's Tilton stating that there is room for the 747-8I to join the fleet..now what happens is anyone's guess.. I also think BA will eventua
34 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Of course, just like every airline... PH
35 Post contains images Stitch : One thing I should note is that when I said "Even if an A380 and a 747-8 have identical seating in identical configs..." in Reply 29, I was referring
36 Keesje : It seems to me the reasoning why carriers like BA, JAL, United and Cathay will never use A380s to replace 747´s are quiet complicated and resting on
37 EbbUK : I am still not entirely sure why any carrier would buy an aircraft with nothing more to offer in the future. If the 380 is too big then it would make
38 Hb88 : Of course you have proof of this don't you? (sorry, I couldn't resist. It gets a bit annoying reading variations on the "The Great Airbus Giveaway" r
39 MCOflyer : Agreed. I'm thinking JL will order some if Boeing offers JL a (D) model. JL may have 77W a/c but in Japan, the capacity of a 748 is warranted for the
40 Stitch : I disagree. JL has moved from the 747D to the 777A and now the 787-3 as traffic per sortie has dropped, shifting to options like high-speed rail (the
41 Deputydawghere : Why would the 748 be obsolete metal in five years? That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on this website.[Edited 2006-09-0
42 Post contains images Jacobin777 : interesting considering they haven't even finalised the specs yet.....also considering the have already sold close to 30 of the 748's means the line
43 Post contains images Stitch : The decisions that drive whether to purchase a 748 or an A388 (or either, for that mattter) are probably driven by what each airline views their traff
44 Deputydawghere : Thanks for the information about GE and Boeing's predictions. I wasn't aware of that. I know they're only predictions though. Even if the 748 isn't p
45 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I agree...they are only predictions...but solid ones I think...once the pax version becomes firmed up, I anticipate to see a number of frames sold...
46 Deputydawghere : Dito on that one bud, and I think we're going to.
47 797charter : As I see it, it is very like that LH orders "a bunch" of 748F. I doubt we will see any 748i orders from LH, - although I would love if they did. Rega
48 Post contains links EI321 : Quoting Deputydawghere (Reply 41): Why would the 748 be obsolete metal in five years? That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments I've read
49 AutoThrust : I follow that, LH will order the 748F, they are very happy with the 747 and the A380F would not be capable to carry every freight they are used to tr
50 Zvezda : In other words, do airlines want an expensive problem now or 15 years in the future. If that were it, Boeing would have an easy time selling the Supe
51 EI321 : Its expensive whichever way its looked at. A fleet of 748's is not exactly a 'cheap fix'. And besides, in LH's case, the investment is already gone i
52 Zvezda : In 10-15 years, Y3 (if it's ever developed) will have CASM perhaps about 20% lower than the A350-1000, B787-10, B747-8, and the WhaleJet (all of whic
53 KC135TopBoom : No, only a few US airports are making the needed changes, LAX, SFO, DEN, MEM, and JFK. The infastructure changes are very expensive. For most US majo
54 EI321 : Yes its more expensive in the long term I know
55 Deputydawghere : Thanks for your positive and productive response. You are a gentleman. Do you think the 747's life's expectancy is short as a result of the industry
56 Post contains images Astuteman : That'll be nearly as low as the A389 will be, then..... (Note to Admin - We really need a "fishing" smilie on here too )
57 Hb88 : My bad, I hadn't realised any pax versions had been ordered - even a single one. As far as the freghter goes, for sure, it seems that carriers are sh
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : 1-happy birthday... 2-there are a lot of carriers who fly VLA's and havent ordered any replacements yet...we just don't know at this point in time..
59 Post contains images Brendows : It hasn't even been ordered by airlines because it's not fully defined yet. Just wait and see Hb88
60 Zvezda : If Airbus can find a market for a stretched WhaleJet, they can reduce CASM by 3 to 4% via the stretch. They should also be able to reduce SFC by 5% o
61 Jacobin777 : that's great..but how many routes warrant an A389?
62 Stitch : Yet the 748 is the final version of a forty-year line of aircraft. So the 748, even being the end of the line, fulfills the second sentence of your s
63 Zvezda : That's easy. Look at routes that are now flown by multiple JumboJets and nothing smaller than a JumboJet. That rules out LHR-NRT, which is served dai
64 DAYflyer : My money would be on JAL or ANA for the first substantive 747-8I order. It is politically and financially expedient for them to do so.
65 Post contains links WINGS : Hi Zvezda, It's on these points in which we do not see eye to eye. I respect your point of view, although I think that you constantly forget to menti
66 MotorHussy : True that. But VLA's are becoming increasingly less important in the Japanese market as it fragments outside of NRT, HND and KIX. Japanese carriers a
67 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Zvezda, I was being rhetorical..my point was there are some routes where the A359 will work very well..but would building of the plane be justified g
68 Ken777 : Looking at potential 748i sales, who were the airlines that "encouraged" or "pushed" Boeing into developing the plane? I've read that BA was in the "p
69 Post contains images Astuteman : There was a clue in there somewhere, Z............ lost unfortunately . The last time we had a discussion on possible A389 CASM, Zvezda posted a beli
70 Zvezda : I think this is just as true for the A350, B787, and B747-8. I expect the number of city pairs served to continue to grow. I expect we'll continue to
71 Johnnybgoode : it has been reported that way in German media, more precisely in an article of the FAZ. wouldn't be the first time that airbus reacts in such a way a
72 Post contains images EbbUK : Gawd stop being such a drama queen. See below Precisely. Why have a plane at the end of a 40yr life on its last flimsy makeover whose costs are virtu
73 Stitch : In LH's case, since they've already taken the plunge to replace their first batch of 744s with A380s, replacing their second batch with them as well
74 Keesje : A major product presentation was scheduled last tuesday. The stretched 747-8i was to be presented to Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, Japan Airlines, K
75 Stitch : It's probably not quite critical yet, but I imagine by Q1 2007 Boeing needs orders for the 748I if they're going to be able to leverage the engineeri
76 2wingtips : Oh here we go again! Stretching the fuselage to 748F length has been talked about for many months. You would know that as well. It will be lengthened
77 KC135TopBoom : The airports have already added in the additional traffic the A-380 would generate for connecting flights when they come up with their ROI time perio
78 Zvezda : One choice is an airliner with lower CASM, greater range, better cabin pressure, a proven record, and less market risk, that can operate to 210 airpo
80 Ordryan28 : I agree with MCOflyer. JL is, in my eyes, a valiant customer for hte 748i. they are currently the largest 747 operator-so why is everyone thinking th
81 PlanesNTrains : Just some quick thoughts: 1. The new 748I/F is doing one thing - securing a future as a freighter model and, regardless of receiving any orders, is pr
82 KC135TopBoom : Dave, I believe that is about the best written post I have ever read on a.net Thank you, KC135TopBoom
83 EbbUK : I think we are all getting a bit too emotional on the subject of the 748 stuck on the shelf with no takers since it was launched as a competitor to a
84 BlazingCessna : Well said!!
85 Dank : The problem is that Boeing clearly tried to get airlines to bite by suggesting that if they committed early they would be able to define the final fo
86 WINGS : Hold on just a minute. The A350, B787 and B748i are to use the latest tech engines vs the A380 which is using current tech engines. By the time in wh
87 Zvezda : That's catch up, not leapfrog. Non sequitor. To the extent that Airbus can improve the WhaleJet before Y3's design freeze, they will raise the bar. T
88 Post contains images WINGS : No Zvezda. Currently it is the B787/B748i/A350 that are catching up with the A380 in terms of CASM. I sincerely don't understand your logic on this p
89 Zvezda : No, the A350-1000, B787-10, and B747-8 will have lower CASM than the WhaleJet. Maybe only 3-5% lower, but tacking on engines developed for the A350 w
90 EI321 : 787-11 is highly unlikely to ever happen. Even the -10 is pushing the design length towards its economical limit. And besides, a 787-11 would just st
91 Zvezda : Airbus is unlikely to stretch the WhaleJet too. At least there would be a market for a B787-11, which I can't say about a stretched WhaleJet. That's
92 TeamAmerica : Looking at performance alone, B777 cannot be brought up to par with the A350. Considering ROI however, Boeing could possibly cut the price of the B77
93 EI321 : What I mean, is that the -11 could not use the same engine familys (is there a fan diameter possible that would fit the current 787 gear height?), wo
94 Stitch : It's still going to be the lesser plane, but if Boeing can get the 772LR and 773ER at least within the shadow of the A350-900R and A350-1000, they ma
95 Cobra27 : Why can't you use A380, that people will know that you are talking about A380 not some sort of whales with jets?
96 Zvezda : The B787 is not a low clearance aircraft. Other expected future B787s will need new landing gear and higher thrust engines anyway: B787-9ER, B787-10E
97 Deputydawghere : "Since the inception of the 747, airlines have expanded its capacity by shrinking the seating from nine across with 34-in. pitch to today's 10 across
98 Post contains images 787engineer : I agree that the 787-11 is unlikely because of MTOW considerations. If Boeing goes with a new landing gear config for the 787-10 (6 wheel trucks or a
99 KC135TopBoom : So then, who will be the B-747-800I launch customer? JL? LH? QF? NZ? BA (probibly not)? UA?
100 EI321 : Isnt Y3 the aircraft that will replace the 777 and 747? I think we can draw conclusions from that as to roughly what size it will be, ie the 300-500
101 Zvezda : It's actually the vertical fuselage dimension that matters, not the width, so the B787 could be longer than an A340-600. If Boeing develop higher cap
102 KC135TopBoom : Then what would replace the B-777-200LR? Could there be a B-787-10ER?
103 Jacobin777 : Probably be the 787-9LR....
104 Post contains images Dank : In this case, airbus will probably have a slightly better matched entry in this market with the 359R. But this is because airbus has put gone after t
105 PlanesNTrains : I think this is another one of those scenarios that pop up where there may be a divergence of the range+capacity matches. What I mean is, while the 7
106 WingedMigrator : Not very much longer at all, without causing major airport compatibility headaches. Airliners need to be shorter than 80 meters. This was a key desig
107 Jacobin777 : sure, I thought of that too...optimally, the 787-8 would be a very good size plane..but I'm not so sure if it has the capabilities of for a ULR..only
108 Zvezda : Yes. A B787-10ER could have an OEW of 290,000 lbs, a MTOW of 640,000 lbs, fuel capacity of 255,000 lbs, a useful load of 350,000 lbs, a max payload o
109 Post contains images Zvezda : A B787-11X would be about 75 meters long, just a fraction of a meter longer than the A340-600. A B787-12X (highly unlikely, in my opinion) would be l
110 EI321 : Why not just make it a double decker than. There would be a lot of empty space above a 12 abreast single decker. Leaving it a 12 abreast single decke
111 Zvezda : Making it a true double decker would lead to an extreme aspect ratio that is not structurally efficient. In my opinion, it's better to keep all the p
112 EI321 : But what affect would bunks & a lounge have on CASM. Passengers can only be in one place at a time, so having lounge and bunks means that at all time
113 Zvezda : That's actually not correct. Doors add quite a lot of structural weight, as do inflatable slides. Also, except where the galleys would go, the floor
114 Zvezda : What do you mean by "sudden" depressurization? Something like the UA B747 that lost 9 C seats due to a cargo door not being properly closed? Or somet
115 Scbriml : Length is not an issue for the A388 (it's 72.75m), but wingspan is right on 80m (and I believe the reason why wing fences were selected rather than w
116 TeamAmerica : May well be true in years to come, but not today. Airbus has to estimate the build cost of an A350 and price it accordingly. Expectations of increasi
117 Zvezda : Or develop a B787-11X.
118 Post contains images TeamAmerica : It will be a bellwether event; if Boeing announces a B787-11X, then there likely won't be a Y3 anytime soon.
119 Jacobin777 : I see your point, but I'd have to do a full analysis between the 787-10LR and 787-8LR to really see what plane would be the better ULR...and I still
120 Post contains images 787engineer : The 787-11 will not be a 400 seat aircraft . The 787-10 is penciled in as a 290-330 seat aircraft and the 787-11, if built, would likely be a 330-370
121 KC135TopBoom : Unless the Y-3 is a 3 aisle, oval crossection fuselage, with delta wings. That configuration would allow 16 seats across in a 3-5-5-3 configuration.
122 Zvezda : Because of the requirement to have enough thrust to take off if an engine fails at V1, thrust comparisons between twins and quads don't work. You nee
123 EI321 : Are you serious?
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Will AA Order The 747 If DL Does? What Do U Think? posted Wed Aug 2 2000 02:26:33 by Blink182
When Will BA Order The B-787-800, B-747-ADV? posted Tue Oct 11 2005 04:43:03 by KC135TopBoom
747 Orders Beat The 777 4 Times This Year! posted Sat Jun 12 2004 15:16:09 by Na
Will The A380 Fly This Year? posted Mon Jan 5 2004 01:15:30 by Sjoerd
When Will LH Order 747-400Fs? posted Tue Jun 18 2002 16:12:33 by Na
Will AA Ever Order The 747-400? posted Thu Jun 29 2000 18:36:57 by Dellatorre
Which Will NW Order The 190, 195, Or Both? posted Sat Oct 7 2006 00:31:55 by Af773atmsp
What Livery Will Be On The B-747-LCF posted Thu Sep 7 2006 04:01:23 by KC135TopBoom
JAL Likely To Order The 747-8? posted Sat Sep 2 2006 15:36:53 by American 767
Will VS Order The 748I? posted Tue Aug 1 2006 20:09:30 by NYC777