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Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane  
User currently offlineAIRCANL1011 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 262 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15208 times:

An Orthodox Jew was praying while on an AC flight that was taxing for takeoff and was forced off the plane because the FA felt he was making other passengers nervous.

Who will get Kicked off an Air Canada flight next????

This is starting to be a habit for AC.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15199 times:

This freggin rediculous. I know several people that pray on planes.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
This freggin rediculous. I know several people that pray on planes.

Yep, I know a lot of people are doing this. But if they are violating safety rules like praying while taxiing for takeoff and they are not on their seat with their seatbelt fastened I think it's ok to warn someone and if one doesn't comply throw them out.

I remember my sister saying (F/A for Hapag Fly) on a flight to Tel Aviv that some jewish pax were getting up as early as the gear was retracted to pray in the aisle. They were also violating a lot of safety regulations and were getting up again just as the plane touched down.
I think this is not alright. Even if you religion wants you to pray at certain times or you have to wash yourself quite so often you should stick to the rules in an airplane or otherwise you can't fly on one.

But as the passenger was only praying in his seat I find it rather strange to force him to disembark. But I myself must admit cause I'm not so fond with other religions so I would be a little bit scared when someone beside me is praying inaudible and lurching back and for.

Regds
jush

[Edited 2006-09-06 14:52:51]


There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineLeftshoe From Germany, joined Mar 2004, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15099 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
On a trans-continental flight, a flight attendant walks up to a passenger of a middle eastern descent.
"What would you like to drink?" asks the flight attendant.
"I'm sorry, I cannot drink" responds the passenger, "I have to fly a plane in about 15 minutes."

Lol. That's a really good one!!!


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15074 times:

From the article...

The action didn't seem to bother anyone, Faguy said, but a flight attendant approached the man and told him his praying was making other passengers nervous.

"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.


So if it was a muslim, she wouldn't be sorry for the situation?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15002 times:

The Jewish association criticised the action of AC saying that the FA's should have recognised that the man was just praying and should have explained this to other pax......

May I ask how FA's are supposed to be able to recognise that a person is just praying harmlessly? With your head covered, chanting from a book, lurching back and forth.....in the year 2006, that amounts to 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'.......anyone behaving like that, irrespective of religion, race, nationality, etc., can expect to attract unwanted attention.....people have to learn to behave normal and keep their personal habits (like praying) for before or after flights......

Let's not turn this into a Muslim or Jewish thing....it's plain dumb behaviour and if the FA felt nervous about, they did the right thing.....better to be safe than sorry in these times....


User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14895 times:

It should not be too much asking to anybody to abide by Safety protocols.

And if it is impossible to some folks, well then they cannot fly. Period.



Take off and live
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14818 times:

I would kicked him off too... some people have no decency or respect for others.


Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineUAL4ever From Israel, joined Aug 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14818 times:

This is simply absurd. As an orthodox jew I pray on planes all the time and I have never had a problem. First of all they should have asked him to sit down and that would have been the end of it. I don't think a Jew praying on a plane who is not disturbing anyone should be thrown off of a plane. This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.

User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 688 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14788 times:

This is starting to be a habit for AC.

Really? On what other occasions have you heard about this? In any case, don't blame the airline for the judgement of one flight crew.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14700 times:

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.

What are you getting so upset about? The action was clearly not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic, but anti-Moslem. The article details how the attendant had mistaken him for a moslem, but then realised, too late that he was an Hasidic Jew.

"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.

It's an interesting case of religious freedom and its rights in the secular mainstream. Personally I don't have an issue with people praying beside me on board as long as they don't encroach on my space or do so in too loud or audible a manner.

Is there not a form of prayer that can be adapted for public space so as not to cause any negative impact and reaction?

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14626 times:

To me it suggests a lack of sensitivity or training of the f/a's and the ignorance of some pax. I am quite sure AC has a significant amount of Jewish pax and their staff should be aware of normal beheavor on the aircraft of major cultural groups.

User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 688 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14626 times:

Don't forget this is Jazz we are talking about. Different company, now only partially (majority) owned by Air Canada and headquartered in Halifax......So they should be nicer!  Smile

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14562 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
Imagine a Muslim person pray on the plane, that would probably cause a riot these days.



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12):
"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.

That is rediculously absurd on AC part, mainly because they acknowdged the fact that if he was a Muslim, he wouldn't have kicked that passenger out. Frankly, I pray whenever I am in a long-haul flight, and I am proud of it no matter what the passengers think. There is nothing wrong with it. This shows how ignorant, unproffessional, and prejudice AC is.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14523 times:

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
As an orthodox jew I pray on planes all the time

As a non orthodox jew, I pray on planes all the time too. Especially Delta



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14470 times:

As a Christian I never pray on planes. And...religion can't excuse you from following rules and regulations. The religion has to adapt.

User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14446 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
May I ask how FA's are supposed to be able to recognise that a person is just praying harmlessly? With your head covered, chanting from a book, lurching back and forth.....in the year 2006, that amounts to 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'.......anyone behaving like that, irrespective of religion, race, nationality, etc., can expect to attract unwanted attention.....people have to learn to behave normal and keep their personal habits (like praying) for before or after flights......

What a ridiculouse statement. Praying in the year 2006 is now 'suspicios bahaviour'... what's the world coming to? Sad is all I can say. Nevertheless, please note my personal comments at end, in which I suppose I am to a certain extent recognising what you're saying.

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 8):
It should not be too much asking to anybody to abide by Safety protocols.

What safety protocols?? He was sitting in his bloody seat and praying? That is not in breach of any safety protocols I can think of...

Quoting A332 (Reply 9):
I would kicked him off too... some people have no decency or respect for others.

And may I ask you if you are being "decent" and "respectful" in your attitude?

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.

I agree, also very offensive to Muslims given the f/a's reaction, and offensive to any religion.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12):
It's an interesting case of religious freedom and its rights in the secular mainstream. Personally I don't have an issue with people praying beside me on board as long as they don't encroach on my space or do so in too loud or audible a manner.

I totally agree with you.

Referring to my initial comment in which I quoted Gr8circle, I am a Roman Catholic and have a fairly solid faith in my religion. I usually pray when flying and always carry rosary beads which belonged to my grandfather and which my mother gave me. Yet, I admit I usually keep them in either my shirt pocket or another pocket in case I make a fellow passenger nervous, and always place then in my bag when going through security. It's sad, but I think we are lacking a certain freedom today to practise our religions in public. But to be kicked off a plane for doing so, I just don't get it. If the guy was some sort of nut, and down on his knees on the aisle or something else which would be breaking safety measures (and putting his life and that of fellow passengers in danger, then I'd totally understand what happened here, but that doesn't seem to be the case).



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14434 times:

Welcome to the 21st century where anyone of middle eastern characteristics are suspect because of the repeatitive actions and rhetoric of more than a few from that same region which are not universally condemed by their respective governments.

So...now 4000 miles away a person starts praying outloud, which is not normal behavior in the region, possibly looks, acts, and dresses a little different from those in the region. (covered his head and was lurching back and forth) Stereotype? You betcha. Error on the side of caution...thats the rule now. Does one need to pray more on Jazz than Air Canada...don't know.

You want to give sensitivity training to flt att's for 500 different religions and all their practices? right...when would they fly? classes would take them the next 20 years.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14413 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 16):
As a non orthodox jew, I pray on planes all the time too.

Personally, I think if you're in a public space, your conversations with God should be just that. I respect that others may feel differently, but if you're invading others' space with your beliefs (and this includes on airplanes) expect a little conflict.

I pray on planes too - I'm not an Orthodox Jew either.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14347 times:

Times have changed big time and "we" as passengers have to realize that no buts & ifs.......... I do not have a problem in general with people praying any were, however these people have to understand that things have changed for the bad and understand that others do not feel comfortable any more.....

So in a way I can understand the f/a, however taking the pax of the ac is a bit much...............

Cheers,


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14280 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 18):
Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.
I agree, also very offensive to Muslims given the f/a's reaction, and offensive to any religion.

Couldn't have said it better! Thank you.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14264 times:

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Thread starter):
Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

...who else kicked a jew out?

If he was just sitting and not talking I can´t understand, but if he was praying loud and a half-singing ways I can undersatnd that others were " nervous" or annoyed.

But btw, how stu...d is this F/A that she cannot tell the differnce between an orthodox jew and an arab???
And the other pax as well.......  duck 


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14264 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 18):
What a ridiculouse statement. Praying in the year 2006 is now 'suspicios bahaviour'..

I'm not saying that praying is necessarily suspicious behaviour....however, the manner in which it is done can raise suspicion.......if this guy wanted to pray, he is fully entitled to do so.....just use common sense and do it in a way that does not attract unwarranted attention.....a lot of Hindus pray when they are outside their home or temple, but it usually involves closing your eyes and concnetrating on whatever you think of while praying...


If a person decides that he/she has to mutter loudly, rock back and forth and make other physical gestures while on a plane, that may not seem normal....well, they're asking for it....and there is a limit to all this religious freedom and stuff that people are talking about.....let everyone follow the same rules of behaviour while flying....such incidents will be minimised....


User currently offlineCRJpurser From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 76 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14228 times:

Now please do not take this as being anti-semetic, as I am quite tolerant of EVERY religion.
However I have worked the YUL-LGA route many a time, and the only recurring problem-passengers were the Orthodox Jews. Some examples of their frequent behavior:
-refusal to stow their hand luggage (including their wives gigantic wig boxes)
-DEMANDING Kosher snacks
-sitting in J class with a Y ticket (it is unbelievable how much that happens!)
-not listening to female cabin crew (typically the young blond ones)
-refusing service from female cabin crew
-REFUSING to sit next to women (because they think women might be having their period!!!!???!!!!)

However I will say that the majority of the ones that pray (that I have had onboard) have always advised me of what they were going to to in advance. I tell them as long as it does not violate any cabin safety rules then Praise The Lord!
Hallelujah!


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14189 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 23):
...who else kicked a jew out?

I think AC also kicked out the other type of Semite, an Arab, a Moslem one at that.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 23):
But btw, how stu...d is this F/A that she cannot tell the differnce between an orthodox jew and an arab???

There was no mention of the passenger being mistaken for Arab, just a Moslem.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
25 Ultrapig : As most of you know I'm Jewish. I have little tolerance for people with little tolerance-but praying is a personal thing. This passenger was obviously
26 MotorHussy : I had no idea you even existed until a moment ago. Nice sentiments. And thanks, I'd forgotten the Wailing-Wall Rock was called Davening. Regards MH
27 CRJpurser : Excellant post!!
28 Post contains images CY319 : that was a good one!!!!! ) I flew AZ few months ago on MXP-LHR. Half of the passengers were orthdodox jews returning to England from Israel. I was su
29 AI : This is a bit scary for me personally. my mother travels a lot & she always has Bhagvad Gita (holy book for the Hindus) with her which she reads on th
30 Rikkus67 : I am quoting this reply from the article on jpost.com, although I do not necessarily agree with the last line..... As far as I can see there are two i
31 V Jet : Wouldn't it be easier if there were no religions.......
32 OHLHD : Ah, ok , did not read that. Thks
33 MotorHussy : Or just one?
34 Post contains images TRVYYZ : What are the rules on Praying on an a/c? Are there any written rules? I don't usually pray on an a/c unless there is some heavy turbulence A quiet men
35 Post contains images Aer Lingus : Some bits from the article. If the F/A know he was a Jew praying and making some of the pax nervous. The F/A should have explained to the other passen
36 Post contains links 777fan : Sadly, "turnabout is fair play": http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...ry/2006/08/18/doctor-winnipeg.html The AC incident is strange because, as that
37 WesternA318 : Ahh, welcome to the new world order, everyones afraid of the raghead. LOL, I dont blame you. See, thats just insane. No wonder I cant stand too many
38 ME AVN FAN : lads of Pakistani/Indian origin being too heavily dressed for the expectation of fellow passengers, an Iraqi having a t-shirt with a semi-lingual tex
39 Coronado990 : So what's normal this day and age if you are a little nervous before a flight? Oh yeah that's right, just take a lot of pharmaceutical drugs so you d
40 777fan : No kidding. "Wacked out-ism" appears to be the latest religious incarnation of many in this country. Sad. 777fan
41 Gr8Circle : Normal to me means avoiding any actions that may draw unwarranted attention to you.....in this age and taking into consideration the events in the pa
42 ME AVN FAN : Yes, airlines ought to distribute free samples of tranquilizers to all passengers. Good adverts on the packings "fly carefree with XXXX" "relaxed fly
43 Post contains images Rammstein : This is unbelievable... I wonder what is the excuse they have to sit in J class while they have a Y ticket. And about the fact they don't want to sit
44 ME AVN FAN : rather difficult customers for sure, similar to many Saudis. But no reason to remove them from a flight.
45 Haggis79 : so are you suggesting that praying for an orthodox jew is ok on a plane but not for an arab?
46 Post contains links 777fan : Apparently not. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...ry/2006/08/18/doctor-winnipeg.html Let's face it: in the wake of 9/11, the shoe bomber, and th
47 B777ER : A link showing were this violates the rules please. Let me save u the trouble, you will not find one. Absurd statement. I am sure it just bothered th
48 Post contains images Haggis79 : I don't think anyone praying on board of a plane (as long as staying in his/her seat and obeying to safety rules, which seems to be the case in this
49 PIA777 : I think the world of Air travel is going crazy. I am muslim and I always say a prayer to myself whenever I travel. I think AC is wrong for throwing an
50 Post contains images Haggis79 : I cannot believe what an immature statement this is... have you thought about that forbidding people to pray may actually interfere with their enjoym
51 747400F : I am sure it does. But if those mandatory things conflict with other peoples life, then you have to make a choise, either go by your mandatory rules
52 777fan : Seriously. Glad to see that your enjoyment of a flight hinges upon someone's religious beliefs, Multimark; that's what air travel is all about, isn't
53 ShowerOfSparks : There's a safety rule about praying while taxiing?
54 BWI757 : As an Orthodox Jew myself, I assume that this fellow was probably standing at his seat during taxiiing and reciting the portion of prayer that requir
55 N1120A : I hope that F/A is fired for comments like that There was nothing against rules and reguations that the guy was doing. He was sitting in his seat and
56 Post contains images Riyadhnurse : If your religious beliefs and practices calls for such public displays especially on a plane, is these frightening times, stay the hell home,or fly a
57 Zrs70 : As a gay rabbi, I have lots to respond to here.... Religion can't be frozen. It must be fluid and with the times. If it were solid, then we would be
58 Indianabridou : I'M A NUDIST CATHOLIC AND A SWINGER I DON'T PRANCE AROUND PRAYING AND FORNICATING IN MID-AIR IMPOSING MY WAYS AND VIEWS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND ON EVER
59 Cefarix : I'm a Muslim and I pray on airplanes all the time...never had a problem. If I have to wash myself for prayer, I go to the bathroom when you can walk a
60 Sebring : Usually if one makes a generalization of this kind, they are an anti-semite. I don't pray on planes or jump queues, and I don't feel especially privi
61 MotorHussy : Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome aboard your (insert airline) flight to (insert destination). For the comfort and safety of you and your fellow passenger
62 Zvezda : People who don't believe in an afterlife don't make good suicide bombers.
63 Lostmoon744 : Wow, indeed. "Always"? If not a bona fide antisemite, a closeted one perchance. Yeah, lots of resentment in the tone. But yikes gang, this could poss
64 MotorHussy : What a very broad broom you sweep with. Have a you had a chat with these alleged Jewish queue jumpers to talk about their religious convictions? You
65 Nkops : A 6 year old Orthodox Jew flying to CUN perhaps!!
66 777fan : FIRST, CONSIDER HITTING THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON. Then, reconsider comparing fornicating with praying. Finally, understand that someone praying in public
67 Multimark : I assure you I am quite real. And yes someone lurching around and muttering inches away from me does disrupt my flight. IMHO anyone who says differen
68 Jonty : Its just one of these things that people aren't comfotable with nowerdays. The reaction to stuff like this is the problem - there will be the people w
69 Post contains links and images Steph001 : Hi everyone, praying on a plane should not be a problem at all, I guess, as long as it doesn't interfere with security regulations. It may look annoyi
70 JAGflyer : Yea, some people like yourself. Your the one lacking respect here. I am Jewish myself and I don't fully take the Orthodox man's side. Nowhere does it
71 777fan : There are no rules that prevent someone from praying on an airplane. At no point did the article suggest that rules were broken - this was simply a j
72 USADreamliner : Sometimes, I got the feeling that some FA's live in a bubble. Like a freaking top model, with no idea of anything.Just a bubble head who can't diferen
73 Peteg913 : Wow, that flight attendant was pretty stupid. I mean, the man was praying, he wasn't disturbing anyone, let him be. Furthermore, I doubt the passenger
74 Gearup : This poor man should not have been booted off for praying even if his praying was outwardly obvious to his fellow passengers. It is not likely that th
75 A332 : Whatever folks, you can say what you want... A person acting a like a lunatic and disturbing others is just that... a lunatic. I don't care if you're
76 Lemurs : The real problem seems to have been the language barrier. If he had understood better what was being asked of him, and the F/A could have come to an u
77 FFlyer : Well said Zvezda, and very true!!!
78 Post contains images Lemurs : Uhm...the problem there is...Orthodox Jews DO believe in an afterlife. It's not emphasized to the very large extent Christianity does, but the belief
79 Jfk777 : Poor Canada, always the bridesmaid never the bride.
80 Swissy : Very well spoken, have many "modern" Jewish friends which have a "new" view of their religion........... If you never have seen a Orthodox pray it mi
81 Post contains images Rolfen : BTW you know muslims have to pray facing the mecca? I dont think theres enough place in the aisle to kneel down in any direction other then that of t
82 Rolfen : With all respect to your religion I would have though upon seing someone doing this that he has mental trouble. I'm sure other people who are unaware
83 Aeroplan73 : It doesn't matter if the guy is a Jew, Christian, Muslim, or friggin Robert Milton. If you are disruptive, then you get what's coming to you. It's not
84 Rolfen : Saudis do the same?? From what I hear saudis will do the exqct opposite, that is do their possible to sit near girls, touch the FA hands when served
85 Post contains images Gr8Circle : I take it that you can distinguish between hijackers and religious orthos when you see one.... Were you on that flight? Read the article properly and
86 YX717fan : What rules and regulations? Praying on a plane is now a federal offense? Just because a man is doing something "different" or "weird" doesn't make hi
87 JHTango : The problem here is very simple. Most people are just intolerant or worst, IGNORANT. Reading from a sacred book could get you into trouble in a plane
88 YX717fan : Well put, JHTango
89 YEGer : Simply put and agreed. I have nothing against religion and other peoples views, but when it comes to flying, anything out of the ordinary is unaccept
90 Afterburner : On certain circumstances, like traveling on an airplane or a bus, muslims do NOT required to face Mecca. We just do the prayer sitting on our seats,
91 JAGflyer : The man was getting very into his prayer... too far into it. He was violently lurching. It's not nessesary to bow to that extent. The FA should have t
92 EmiratesA345 : The first is reason enough to kick someone off, is it not? Isn't it a federal offense to not comply with the orders of a cabin crew member? Thats a g
93 Lemurs : Some people get carried away when praying, it's even part of the tradition of praying for some segments of the Chassidic world. Like I said before, no
94 Youngflyer : Hey all, First off I don't think this man was trying to be disrespectful, he was trying to pray. Maybe he did it in an uncomfortable manner but he cer
95 FRAspotter : That's sick...
96 Baldguy : Anyone with enough street sense to be a flight attendant ought to be able to distinguish between an Orthodox Jew and a Muslim. The Orthodox tend to be
97 Post contains images Haggis79 : Baldguy, I do believe that this is your personal opinion (as well as mine, by the way) and I hope that the majority of Canadians does think so, but t
98 Gigneil : And that very concept invalidates the entire lot. By definition religion is what it is. If you change it to meet the times, that inherently invalidat
99 Zrs70 : By whose definition? Can you expound? I always admired how the Hebrew word "Israel" means "Wrestle with God." In other words, we can't just take what
100 FLYACYYZ : I predominantly work TLV flights, and quite simply as long as the safe operation of the aircraft is not impeded, it is simply one of the "nuances" of
101 Lostmoon744 : Gents, I was just thinking that yes, people are uncomfortable with encantations in different languages and strangely dressed people who pray outloud i
102 Moek2000 : Being a Muslim and all, I too, pray during flights. What I usually do is let the flight attendants know that I'm praying and I ask them before I do it
103 Lemurs : That's assuming you and the FA's speak the same language...which wasn't true here. Poor guy wouldn't have been able to even if he wanted to.
104 EK345 : I think another serious issue here is the reaction of the FA... "The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was s
105 ME AVN FAN : no, what happened on 11Sep01 was NOT the result of a relaxed approach and of tolerance, it was the result of shoddy security-precautions, shoddy surv
106 Toulouse : Thanks A332! But where does it state in the article he was acting like a "lunatic" and "distubing others". Unfortunately JHTango, you seem to be righ
107 B707Stu : It's frightening how history often repeats itself in the oddest and strangest moments. Clearly none of us were there but if the reports are right tha
108 Post contains images OHLHD : Haggis, everybody can and should pray if he/she wants to. However it should be done in a way that nowbody else is offended. I have tralled on QR and
109 BeechNut : Well I'm a Roman Catholic and I pray the Liturgy of the Hours daily. I also sing Gregorian Chant in a choir. Next time I fly I think I'll chant my pra
110 Gearup : Haggis79, You are quite correct. This thread has brought out some folk who obviousley have a hatred for religon and the religious. It would seem to m
111 LPLAspotter : I remember escorting a group of 35 Peace Corps Volunteers when one recruit started reciting the torah and praying. I told him to knock it off, and tha
112 PanHAM : If you are wearing a monks habit you might even get away with it. On the other hand, I just imagine a couple of guys starting Gregorian chants on an
113 Frequentflyer : Looks like my latest post was deleted, albeit bearing no insults and in line with forum guidelines. Any sense of humor anyone? But I will say it again
114 Indianabridou : Indianabridou Sorry for the cap locks!!! I wasn't comparing the two , I was merely trying to make a point;I believe that in a closed environment like
115 Legoguy : I must admit, if some guy was sitting next to me as described, with clothing over his head, rocking backwards and forwards, praying out loud... I woul
116 BeechNut : Obviously when travelling I simply read from my breviary, but I may cross myself at various points in the liturgy. I was speaking facetiously about t
117 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Too late! We believed you when you first posted it.... This episode, which seems to have evoked half a million replies, was not about some pax or FA'
118 Floris : I have never seen a Jew commit a suicide attack.
119 Gr8Circle : There's always a first time for everyone.....now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this in relation to Jews or any other community.....it's just th
120 Lostmoon744 : Perhaps. Can one say for certain though? Who knows? But, there have been many non-Jews that *pose as Jews who commit suicide attacks (or homicide att
121 Lemurs : It is both slightly amusing and slightly disturbing how xenophobia has become acceptable again by simply rebranding it as "erring on the side of safet
122 Legoguy : OK fair enough, I will hold my hands up and say I have no idea what the differences between Jews ant people from other religions. Of course the guy i
123 Rikkus67 : What happened to this man was disrespectful, but most of us still have missed one important issue... HE COULD NOT SPEAK ENGLISH..... and was unaccompa
124 Post contains images Lostmoon744 : I couldn't agree with you more. My comment was simply an oberservation of the present reality nowadays. Whether one likes it or not, we are all on th
125 BeechNut : There is nothing suspicious about an Orthodox Jew praying. People should get out more... Beech
126 ME AVN FAN : What really IS suspicious about ANYBODY praying ?
127 Lostmoon744 : Indeed. Something important to consider. Yes, and it is a sad reality. One of the cures I think is re-educating and self-learning about other culture
128 Post contains images Lostmoon744 : Indeed!
129 Coronado990 : Man, I can't believe this is the 21st century. I expected so much more.
130 Lostmoon744 : Yes. An even more poignant statement. What came to mind was the MS 990 incident where it is purported that prayer was used by the relief pilot to plu
131 Haggis79 : well, fortunately enough, annoying other people is not a crime yet (at least not in Germany), and hopefully will never be... what you suggest is noth
132 ME AVN FAN : ok, the man DID pray, but he did NOT "use" prayer to plunge the plane people praying loud in airplanes are a bit strange in my view, but perfectly ac
133 Post contains images Lostmoon744 : Semantics, I am afraid. I guess one can't really use prayer. The scope of my example was to illustrate that someone can pray to do nefarious things.
134 ME AVN FAN : not yet, not yet. Until 11Sep01, you have never seen a Lebanese or an Egyptian doing this.
135 Multimark : People seem to be ignoring this part of the article: "...According to CBC, Air Canada Jazz, termed the situation "delicate," and said it received more
136 Legoguy : Yea ok that was a bad example and I'm sorry for bringing it up as it seems to have sparked off a little war. And yes, the suicide bomber would try to
137 Swissy : It goes both ways, I guess he was not aware of it that he caused such a fuzz to other passengers....... I mean try to see it from both ways..........
138 Legoguy : Thats true, although very hard as he did not speak English
139 Post contains images Lostmoon744 : I love this!
140 Legoguy : Hahahaha it's quite catchy! Everytime my mom asks 'What do you want for breakfast', the reply is usually 'Beer can, Beer can, Beer can, Beer can!'
141 Post contains images A5XX : Live and let live.... Post 9/11, we all must acknowledge this fact: the world, as it has been, is over. Things will never be the same again. 3600 time
142 AR385 : I believe the problem is this: The terrorists may have won. They may have reached their objective. Their objective was not to bring the towers down o
143 Robsawatsky : Your conclusion only proves that the real victors are the propagandists of our own so-called free and democratic nations. A population in fear brings
144 Gr8Circle : You are misquoting me....I have all along been saying in this thread that there is nothing suspicious about praying as long as it is done in a manner
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