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F9 Buys 10 Q400's, Seeks Regional Jet Expansion  
User currently offlineNZblue From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 638 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14385 times:

Excerpt from the press release on the Frontier Airlines Website:

http://frontierairlines.com/frontier...e-are/news-media/press-releases.do

Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. to Purchase 10 Bombardier Q400 Turboprops, Seeks Regional Jet Expansion up to 20 Aircraft

Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. Launches Turboprop Service and Seeks to Expand Regional Jet Operation

DENVER, Sept. 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. (NASDAQ: FRNT), referred to below as the Company, today announced it has entered into an agreement with Bombardier, Inc. to purchase ten 74-seat Q400 turboprop aircraft, with an option to purchase an additional ten aircraft. The Company intends to operate the Q400s under a wholly owned subsidiary with its own operating certificate. Leveraging the strength of Frontier Airlines Denver International Airport (DEN) hub, which provides service to a network of 57 North American cities, the subsidiary intends to use its fleet of Q400s to bring low-cost service to under-served markets in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region. The subsidiary expects to serve as many as 18 destinations using the new aircraft and to create 300-400 new jobs. Cities to be served have not yet been finalized.

"This aircraft purchase will enable our service to grow by giving Frontier access to regional leisure and business travel destinations that were previously inaccessible to us but are ideally suited for the economics of the Q400," said Jeff Potter, president and CEO of Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. "Our goal is to bring the Frontier experience to under-served markets using a comfortable, state-of-the-art new aircraft, and the Q400 is the perfect aircraft for that mission."

The Company's first Q400 aircraft is scheduled for delivery in May 2007, with subsequent deliveries continuing throughout the balance of the year. The total fleet of 10 aircraft is scheduled to be in service by December 2007. Deliveries of the option aircraft, if exercised, would begin in March 2008. The Frontier brand name will be used for the new service, as it is with the airline's regional service, Frontier JetExpress. The Q400 aircraft will be painted in the Frontier livery with the familiar animals on the tail of every aircraft.

In conjunction with Frontier's Q400 growth strategy, the airline is also seeking a partner(s) to operate up to 20 regional jet (RJ) aircraft, to either augment or replace its existing fleet of nine CRJ-700 aircraft, currently operated by Horizon Air as Frontier JetExpress. The expanded RJ fleet will be used to seed mainline service by developing new and smaller markets into mature mainline markets for Frontier and to supplement Frontier's mainline service.

"Our 12-year contract with Horizon Air allows for either party to initiate a review of the terms for changes to be agreed to after three years, and we are currently in discussions with Horizon in this regard," said Paul Tate, senior vice president and CFO of Frontier. "We intend to distribute a request for proposal (RFP) to Horizon Air and other RJ operators within the next 30 days that will enable us to execute our growth strategy."

[Edited 2006-09-06 16:12:35]


It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
116 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14267 times:

Great news for F9! It will be interesting to see how these Q400's do in the LCC world.

User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14223 times:

Very interesting stuff. Sounds like Frontier JetExpress is working. I wonder why Frontier's new subsidiary isn't considering operating its own RJs though.

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14104 times:

First off looks like perhaps Great Lakes is out....and that Horizon is going to have to bid down to hold the contract...the anticipated savings will help finance the q fleet. Would not be suprised if they are looking at the Republic group to get some E170 family aircraft aka JetBlue style with TV.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14082 times:

I wonder if this signals that Frontier wants lower costs from QX? We always hear that they are happy with them as a service provider, but maybe that's been overstated from an economic standpoint.

Could QX take on 20 more CRJ-700's? I have my doubts, as they would have to find a home for them if F9 were to terminate their contractual relationship later, and 20 is a big number to absorb into the QX route network. Of course they could go out and peddle their services to another carrier, but if Frontier thinks they are too pricey, who else is gonna take them on?

Just random thoughts...

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAirmech From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14060 times:

Here is Horizon's news release;

Frontier announces purchase of Q400s and expansion of JetExpress program

Frontier Airlines this morning announced an ambitious plan to expand operations out of its Denver hub by purchasing 10 Q400s and increasing Frontier JetExpress flying by up to 20 regional jets.

In its press release, Frontier said it will form a wholly owned subsidiary to operate the Q400s, which it will use to bring low-cost service to under-served markets in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region. Frontier expects to serve as many as 18 destinations using the new aircraft.

Frontier said it considered having Horizon Air do the Q400 flying, because of our high level of experience with the aircraft, but it decided that purchasing and operating the aircraft itself under a new, separate operating certificate would be most cost effective.

Frontier also said it wants to expand CRJ flying out of Denver to develop new markets and supplement its mainline service. Horizon currently operates nine of its 20 CRJ-700s as Frontier JetExpress. Frontier said it will seek one partner or more to operate up to 20 regional jets for the JetExpress operation.

"We intend to distribute a request for proposal (RFP) to Horizon Air and other RJ operators within the next 30 days that will enable us to execute our growth strategy,” said Paul Tate, Frontier's senior vice president and CFO.

Horizon’s 12-year contract with Frontier -- which started on Jan. 1, 2004 -- allows after three years for either party to initiate a review of the terms for changes to be agreed to.

Carriers are now commonly putting out RFPs for regional contract flying in order to reduce their costs for the services provided by their regional affiliates. Horizon will be given the opportunity to submit a bid for continuing to operate JetExpress per the terms of the RFP. In the coming days, Horizon will be analyzing and then responding to Frontier’s RFP.


User currently offlineNZblue From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14007 times:

Here's the Bombardier press release:

Bombardier Sells 10 Q400 Turboprops to Frontier Airlines

Toronto, September 06, 2006

Bombardier Aerospace announced today that Frontier Airlines of Denver, Colorado has signed a contract to acquire 10 Bombardier Q400 74-seat airliners. The contract includes options on 10 additional Q400 aircraft.

The value of the firm orders based on list price is $256.8 million US. The value could rise to $520.3 million US if the 10 options are exercised.

The Q400 aircraft is the airline’s first turboprop. Frontier operates 280 flights a day to 57 destinations in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, some of which are flown by Horizon Air as Frontier JetExpress using Bombardier CRJ700 regional jets.

“Only the Bombardier Q400 aircraft has the very low operating costs and operational characteristics that we require to develop new flying from our hub in Denver to points in Colorado and surrounding states,” said Jeff Potter, President and Chief Executive Officer, Frontier Airlines. “The aircraft’s high cruise speed and excellent passenger comfort complete an extremely attractive package. Judging from the experience of other Q400 operators, our passengers are going to enjoy flying in this aircraft.”

“We are delighted that Frontier Airlines has recognized the superb qualities of the Bombardier Q400,” said Steven Ridolfi, President, Bombardier Regional Aircraft. “This aircraft is in a class by itself. There is no other regional aircraft that comes close to matching its low operating costs and we look forward to supporting Frontier’s future growth.”

Frontier Airlines becomes the 18th operator to order the Bombardier Q400. Firm orders stood at 185 aircraft as of July 31, 2006, with 125 having been delivered.



It's an entirely different kind of flying; all together.
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13918 times:

Looks like a precurser to tomorrow's shareholder meeting:
Webcast at 9:30 MDT

Looks to be a $250,000,000 order Marketwire

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 2):
I wonder why Frontier's new subsidiary isn't considering operating its own RJs though.

The whole thing is puzzling, isn't it?

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 3):
First off looks like perhaps Great Lakes is out

Well, not quite. You're talking some large props here compared to Great Lake's 1900s and 120s... Great Lakes could be under pressure by F9 to get lower costs though.

In any event, DLKAPA peed his pants.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 3):
Would not be suprised if they are looking at the Republic group to get some E170 family aircraft aka JetBlue style with TV.

How fast can the Republic group grab some 170s?


the fall 07 ski season looks to be an interesting one!

My bets for Colorado: ASE, EGE, DRO for sure. COS, GJT, TEX, SBS likely maybe PUB


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13908 times:

Great, too bad I left DRO with no intentions on returning.  Wink

Still, it'll be fun spotting Q4s flying around DEN.


User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13869 times:

Is this going to bet the new Mountain Air Express????



Sean



I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13812 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 3):
First off looks like perhaps Great Lakes is out

I doubt it completely. In some markets yes, but there are way too many EAS markets that cannot be served with DH4s.

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 7):
My bets for Colorado: ASE, EGE, DRO for sure. COS, GJT, TEX, SBS likely maybe PUB

PUB cannot support a 74 seat aircraft, they are lucky they have any service at all. GJT definitely, SBS would be great!!


User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13642 times:

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 2):
Very interesting stuff. Sounds like Frontier JetExpress is working. I wonder why Frontier's new subsidiary isn't considering operating its own RJs though.

I'm kind wondering if there is something in the pilot union scope clause regarding this,just a guess...it is good to see an airline recognizing the economics of turboprop operations and it looks like the ski resorts will see some improved service..


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13601 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Montana cities (BIL, BZN, MSO, GTF, FCA) are on the radar with the new Q400 operation. Perhaps that's leading to frostier relations with QX, as a new 'low-cost' entrant in those cities could lower yields quite a bit.

As for other cities.. I wouldn't be surprised to see ICT attempted again. CYS and JAC would make sense, too. Can the airport at SAF support a Q400?

I think keeping RJ service seperate from the Q400 outfit is a good idea. First, it keeps things simpler for what will be a brand new airline. It also allows more flexibility in the event the Q400 routes to DEN don't work out. There are a ton of RJ operators out there, but not many regionals operate the big cost-effective turboprop. If they need to seek new opportunities, it'd be advantageous to market themselves as simply a Q400 provider.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13550 times:

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 2):
Sounds like Frontier JetExpress is working.

Well, perhaps from the standpoint of incremental mainline revenue and/or market development it does, but on a pure profit-and-loss basis as reflected in the company's income statement, the JetExpress operation lost about $2.15 million last quarter. That's probably largely due to the margin Frontier pays Horizon as consideration for operating the flights, but pretty much all contract regional operators receive a guaranteed profit margin.

I suppose this announcement of a new regional subsidiary explains at least in part the decision of Frontier to reorganize itself and create a holding company. Even though they're experienced in operating an airline, I suspect the experience of Republic (which owned Chautauqua) might show that it could take some time to obtain a new certificate from the government.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 2):
I wonder why Frontier's new subsidiary isn't considering operating its own RJs though.

That's a really good question, and I wondered that as well. My only guesses were that they didn't want to take on the additional balance sheet leverage (given that they're still taking delivery of new Airbuses and now ten Q400's) that would be involved with twenty 70-seat RJ's, or perhaps they'd be unable to have enough aircraft delivered from Bombardier and/or Embraer in the timeframe they prefer.

Exactly WHO would be operating these aircraft is an interesting question. I doubt very strongly that Frontier would hire Mesa again, and the number of available 70-seat operators is limited -- especially ones which might be limited by contracts for flying out of DEN with United. The latter consideration might be enough to keep Trans States (GoJets) and Republic out of the running, and it definitely excludes SkyWest. I do not know if Delta's contract with SkyWest regarding ASA restricts SkyWest from performing ASA flying on the behalf of other airlines.

In any event, I can certainly see the Q400's being used to ski destinations in Colorado and the surrounding states in winter, while also offering service to a number of the smaller Mountain West cities which up until now haven't been able to support F9 service.


User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13519 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
Exactly WHO would be operating these aircraft is an interesting question. I doubt very strongly that Frontier would hire Mesa again, and the number of available 70-seat operators is limited -- especially ones which might be limited by contracts for flying out of DEN with United. The latter consideration might be enough to keep Trans States (GoJets) and Republic out of the running, and it definitely excludes SkyWest. I do not know if Delta's contract with SkyWest regarding ASA restricts SkyWest from performing ASA flying on the behalf of other airlines.

It actually sounds like it will be a division of F9 like American Eagle,keep the control of the quality of the operation in-house with their people and procedures.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13504 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
Could QX take on 20 more CRJ-700's? I have my doubts, as they would have to find a home for them if F9 were to terminate their contractual relationship later, and 20 is a big number to absorb into the QX route network. Of course they could go out and peddle their services to another carrier, but if Frontier thinks they are too pricey, who else is gonna take them on?

Well it is quite possible that Frontier could purchase the planes and have Horizon operate them. That would reduce the risk for Horizon so that they wouldn't be stuck with an unused fleet that they might have to take on routes that won't necessarily earn a profit in case the contract gets dumped. We all know how variable the regional carrier industry can be, especially with the turnover seen at United.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineA330300 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13484 times:

From a Frontier CSA standpoint, if this means the end of the ZK partnership, I'm all for it. The ZK/F9 partnership in Denver almost always results in misconnected bags and all sorts of issues - ultimately adding costly extra expenses for F9.

If Lynx can provide a seamless F9 experience from city to city, then it'll be a positive move from a customer standpoint - the Q400 is just icing on the cake.

It'll be interesting to see how Frontier will integrate staffing and lateral movement within the two divisions - corporate staffing is thin already, will Frontier add new positions or stretch existing ones to cover both?

[Edited 2006-09-06 18:53:57]

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9633 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13484 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

I wouldn't be surprised if the Montana cities (BIL, BZN, MSO, GTF, FCA) are on the radar with the new Q400 operation. Perhaps that's leading to frostier relations with QX, as a new 'low-cost' entrant in those cities could lower yields quite a bit.

Would QX care? Seems to me, while F9 and AS fly to a few of the same places, their route maps are different enough that both carriers could thrive?


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5053 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

While the announcement comes as a shocker, I am amazed at the potential of this news. Someone is a genious in this. Seriously!!!!

F9 is going to offer service that WN is not able to. If you can't beat them, serve cities that WN can't get to! Way to go F9!!!!! Can't wait to see the paint jobs on these 400's!

Maybe someone with some skills could give us a sneak preview of what they will look like.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 7):

My bets for Colorado: ASE, EGE, DRO for sure. COS, GJT, TEX, SBS likely maybe PUB

APA will see service before SBS. HDN on the other hand...


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13438 times:

F9 is getting pretty ambitious as of late....new 320's, aggresive Mexico expansion, now the Q400 order. I'm all for them building up DEN. I just hope they don't bite off more than they can chew.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5053 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13405 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 20):
F9 is getting pretty ambitious as of late....new 320's, aggresive Mexico expansion, now the Q400 order. I'm all for them building up DEN. I just hope they don't bite off more than they can chew.

I was thinking the same thing.. But, F9 has been laying low lately. Usually when F9 does this, they are in some type of planning stage. F9 really has no choice but to expand and offer a service that WN can't. The day we see WN landing a 737 into ASE, GJT, DRO, and other hard to reach places will be the day. F9 is and has been looking at ways to compete with WN, without causing an all out ruckus.

I hope the plan works!!!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineA330300 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13370 times:

On the CRJs...it's known that when examined individually, the current Frontier JetExpress operation is not profitable for Frontier. However, when looked at as a whole, the JetEx operation does contribute to the overall revenue/profit stream for Frontier.

"In conjunction with Frontier's Q400 growth strategy, the airline is also seeking a partner(s) to operate up to 20 regional jet (RJ) aircraft, 'to either augment or replace its existing fleet of nine CRJ-700 aircraft, currently operated by Horizon Air as Frontier JetExpress.'"

"'Our 12-year contract with Horizon Air allows for either party to initiate a review of the terms for changes to be agreed to after three years, and we are currently in discussions with Horizon in this regard," said Paul Tate, senior vice president and CFO of Frontier. "We intend to distribute a request for proposal (RFP) to Horizon Air and other RJ operators within the next 30 days that will enable us to execute our growth strategy.'"

I'm guessing the RFPs will seek to lower costs on the RJ operation for JetEx - I believe the current operation has F9 paying QX on a per-departure basis, and QX profits quite well from this. However, QX is also struggling with aircraft availability to support AS/QX growth, so whether or not QX will actually bid for the increased operation will be interesting to follow. If QX/F9 agree to drop CR7 flying or what the new partner is opens up yet another possibility - ERJ? CR2? CR7? CR9?

Potentially, the entire operation next July could be:

Frontier Airlines (318/319) - (114, 132 pax)
Lynx Aviation (Q400) (74)
Horizon (CR7) (70)
and/or
New operator (???) (37-90 pax?)

Q400 delivery schedule - looks like operations will ramp up fully during the shoulder season with full operations by Winter 2007 for the 10 firm a/c:

1st May 2007
2nd July 2007
3rd Aug. 2007
4th Sept. 2007
5th, 6th Oct. 2007
7th, 8th Nov. 2007
9th, 10th Dec. 2007

[Edited 2006-09-06 18:55:38]

[Edited 2006-09-06 18:58:48]

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13371 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
Would QX care? Seems to me, while F9 and AS fly to a few of the same places, their route maps are different enough that both carriers could thrive?

It's the traffic that connects at SEA/PDX that could give QX heartburn with this whole deal. Sure, they keep a premium on Pac NW-Montana traffic.. but anywhere south and east of there is just a little further via DEN. Of course, I'm sure F9 would say they're more interested in taking traffic from NW, DL, and UA.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13300 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 3):
First off looks like perhaps Great Lakes is out....

What do you mean by "out"? No one in their right mind would fly a ZK market with a 74 seat aircraft.



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Ca2ohHP : Can the Q400 operate out of TEX? I know YV does it with the -100's. This is bad news for United. Once F9 enters ASE, UA is going to lose yield fast.
26 Boeing7E7 : Most likely Q400 Routes: Colorado Springs (Some sort of shuttle operation) Aspen Grand Junction Hayden/Steamboat (Seasonal) Durango (Seasonal) Gunniso
27 Wolsingerjet : On another note when in DEN the last week I was surprised to hear that F9 is still looking to expand into Canada.The YYC route is performing at a ''ok
28 SANFan : Just maybe F9 has some plans for flying their animals to some of those very under-served markets in The Valley of California, service that is way over
29 Post contains images Nosedive : Fine, add APA then Good point. Well, it's not like they own the place, as YV is there on behalf of HP/US True, nvm.
30 Saab2000 : This would be very interesting. I believe there are some non-compete clauses for DEN flying with the United Express carriers. I could be wrong on that
31 Kohflot : I mentioned in a previous thread that there's got to be a market for intra-California flights that don't require a connection at LAX or SFO. They cou
32 Ca2ohHP : Would be awesome to have F9 in LGB. No ticket counter space though...unless the city invests in more trailers.
33 Post contains images Lightsaber : This I wonder too... Could F9 be bidding for E175's/CR9's? Quite simply with a fleet of Q400's, the RJ's will need to improve their economics dramati
34 A330300 : My guess for the new/increased RJ operation would be geared toward 50-70 seaters...if Horizon stays, I would guess more CR7s or CR2s. Reasoning behind
35 IADCRJ : I am surprissed that F9 did not seek Horizon to operate this new Q400 service, since F9 currently has a partnership with them and Horizon is a current
36 Nosedive : Well, IIRC QX didn't seem too keen on expanding their Q400 fleet for whatever reason...
37 Copaair737 : Isn't BIL already served by F9 JetExpress??? If so, would the Q400 be in addition to the exisiting flight, or a complete replacement? -Copa
38 CRJ900 : Perhaps F9 should demand that the 20 RJs must have PTVs like their own Airbuses. If so, demand will probably rise and they can order CRJ900 instead of
39 EmSeeEye : Ive always thought the Central Valley would be a ripe picking for F9 and DEN however would any of these airports not be able to support a Q400?
40 Post contains links Mariner : It isn't unexpected news. When they started setting up the holding company at the beginning of the year, they said one of the reasons was to have a re
41 Flyb : It will be interesting to see if they will expand. They see strong competition on the DEN route with 5x daily already on UA from YYC and 3x daily fro
42 Planemaker : Well, congratulations to the growing Mexico aerospace sector! BBD's Queretaro plant will be building the Q400's electrical harness and flight-control
43 EmSeeEye : You read my mind!
44 Dw9115 : Sioux Falls South Dakota (FSD) has been begging Frontier for some time now to come to town and compete against United on the Denver route that has 95%
45 ScottB : Which I am fairly certain I stated in the preceding half of the sentence... My guess was an internal code name, appropriate given the animal tails an
46 Post contains images Mariner : Next question: where is Frontier going to park 'em all? Frontier has just come through a major crisis of gate space at DEN. There are four more United
47 Mariner : And I was just pointing out what you missed - that the operation has been/is stand alone profitable at times. Given that the contract with Horizon wa
48 Floridaflyboy : Billings is already served by F9 through JetExpress (Horizon), so it hasn't been a problem for QX/AS so far. Why would they serve HLN? HLN is a dying
49 AS739X : SANfan: SFO does not allow prop at the gate, so operating F9 from gates 41,43 with Q400's won't work. LAX is running pretty tight on gates during peak
50 ScottB : I don't think I've missed anything; I'm unable to find a single quarter in which the regional operation has shown a profit for Frontier. Please corre
51 We're Nuts : Great news for Bombardier. Hopefully more airlines will get off the RJ high and look for more fuel efficient planes.
52 Gigneil : You gotta read the whole thread boss, they made it clear they did approach Horizon but that they decided the costs were better to do in house. NS
53 Mariner : At several conference calls since the contract with Horizon began the matter has been discussed. On these occasions they have said that the Horizon/J
54 Skyexramper : Cause I'm sure it's cheaper for a carrier to just pay a set price through a contract than to actually aquire smaller jets as their operating expenses
55 GEG2RAP : add fsd and looks good maybe lnk??
56 NWDC10 : If this is true, then most of the CRJ700's will need to be replaced by the Q400's where a Q400 can replace them. But the longest routes that a Q400 c
57 Af773atmsp : What does a Q400 look like? I know there are propellers but I don't know the rest.
58 Post contains links NWDC10 : Here ya go. http://q400.com/q400/en/home.jsp Robert NWDC10
59 Post contains images NZblue :
60 Mariner : (i) Frontier (mainline) is not presently losing money. (ii) As noted in the press release, Frontier is looking for more CR7's, for a fleet total of 2
61 FATFlyer : There used to be quite a bit FAT-SAN regional service. It went when DLConn left and TransStates/StatesWest quit flying for US. FAT serves a large nav
62 Tcttx : On the other end of the spectrum, do I recall that F9 was getting a few 320s? Or was that just a possibility? I thought I read this somewhere a while
63 AS739X : FATFyer: I agree. That is a niche. I'm just saying in general it doesn't appear to be the need for many city's in the valley to SAN. FAT may be the ex
64 ScottB : But the performance of the operation in the financials really doesn't support the assertion of "several," although one or two might be believable. Th
65 Rampart : Remember when PUB could support (original) Frontier, TWA, and America West?? (and I think Rocky Mountain at the time, too.) It's not like they're shr
66 Mariner : I never claimed "sustained profitability". ??? Once again, I can only refer you to the public statements - see below for an example. The holding comp
67 Gigneil : It wasn't really "their own airline" it was a feeder service to WP that was wholly owned. This was 11 years ago. The Do 328-100 is an amazingly good
68 ScottB : Well, except that they had known by the time of the announcement for well over three months, not one, and perhaps the holding company itself, as you
69 Mariner : As long as I have been aware of Frontier (and a shareholder), which is 1999, I have been aware of a push towards a regional carrier. It has been disc
70 Garri767 : Interesting move, maybe AMA will see an upgrade from Great lakes..i hate that B1900 ride... i also think LBB and Midland stand a decent chance. any ot
71 Post contains images FATFlyer : And I agree for most of the markets. But I don't know, a daily flight on FAT-SAN including the weekend days to feed that new SAN-CUN flight sure soun
72 Post contains links Mariner : Agreed, but I don't think it would be the Q400's. CEO Potter says they will be based in Denver: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4167918.htm
73 Boeing7E7 : HLN is dying under high fares from a mass influx of RJ service. HLN-BIL-DEN provides service between the capital and Montana's largest city and non-s
74 Post contains links Challiday : The Q400 is already in the LCC world, FlyBe love them
75 Post contains links and images Mariner : It took a while, but I got there. Lynx. As in Larry the Lynx: View Large View MediumPhoto © John R. Beckman An (in)house joke. Well, I guess if
76 Knope2001 : Interesting move by Frontier! Good to see, with the Q400 acquisition, another airline understand that the RJ isn't the best answer for every market. 7
77 N1120A : Probably don't want to end up stuck with them like other carriers have been Consider that the BELF of the Q400 is something like 40-60% and it makes
78 MCOflyer : Amen, I have a feeling that F9 can do it. If they find the right cities to serve, they can do it. LOL. I beleieve that will never happen. Glad to see
79 Stirling : That is correct, the days of serving cities with one frequency a day, but with mainline-sized aircraft have been over for a while. Each one of those
80 PlanesNTrains : There seem to have been plenty of opportunities for QX to expand of late but they lacked the CRJ lift. As tight as I've heard that fleet is, welcomin
81 FATFlyer : I don't see it either but then again..... Maybe the option Q's might find a home outside of Denver. I can only hope.
82 Apodino : People have mentioned Republic. I believe that they would be restricted on this flying per the no compete clause with UA. That would also eliminate Me
83 Kohflot : There's very little traffic between CA's secondary cities because fares are rediculous and they all require stops, making it just as fast to drive. I
84 SANFan : Kohflot is correct. The SD-SB drive is about 4 hours minimum including the need to navigate thru -- or around -- LA. When the price of CA gas ($3+/G)
85 Post contains images EmSeeEye : I wouldnt count out SGU or CDC. Until SGU gets a new airport there wont be any CRJ or ERJ's in and out of there. IMO SGU would be ripe for the LCC pi
86 Vivavegas : Any LiveTV on the Q400's? That would be a nice amenity! Wishing YX would get off their duff and join the Q400 revolution.... Craig MKE
87 King : Frontier has invited its employees to join them this Friday, Sept. 8, at Signature Flight Support at DIA to touch, see and possibly ride in a Q400. Th
88 Copaair737 : IIRC, SGU is getting a new airport. I read an article in the SL Tribune a couple weeks back that said as much. -Copa
89 Post contains images Lightsaber : I agree. I also think that they'll do well enough to pick up all 20. I could only hope. Fares to and from ICT are high and difficult to pick up (at t
90 Post contains links NZblue : Also, on the F9 website, there will be a public conference call regarding the new purchase of the Q400's: http://frontierairlines.com/frontier...stor-
91 FATFlyer : Look for Mammoth to get Q400 flights from Horizon next year, it is a very strong possibility for seasonal service. Too late for this ski season but p
92 Post contains links and images Mariner : Aspen - ASE - is keen. They say they've already had talks with Frontier: http://www.aspendailynews.com/article_15805 Sioux Falls is champing at the b
93 RJNUT : I am very excited for Frontier on this purchase... But slightly off topic, I feel Midwest has had the opportunity to SHOWCASE this aircraft in a simil
94 Atomother : So will the pilots for Lynx that will be flying these Q400s come from F9's list or will they perhaps contract with Horizon to provide the pilots or wi
95 Montanaflyer : I definetely think MSO is in the running, in the past year, it is Montana's only airport to consistently experience positive growth...BIL BZN AND FCA
96 Post contains images Stirling : I drove through there back in June....the place is hopping with growth. I did, right between Palm Springs and Grand Junction Well they fly Portland t
97 Delta787 : This is Great news for Frontier. I hope the Q400s serve them well.
98 JBo : But what makes you think the Q400 is the cure-all end-all solution for every regional airline? Midwest doesn't need a 70+ seat regional aircraft. Not
99 NZblue : See Reply 75.
100 AS739X : KOHFLOT: That makes my point exactly. And with the CEO saying the planes will be based in DEN, I think the talk of inter-CA is all for not! ASLAX
101 ScottB : If you call having at most 1/3 of the PDX-SMF market holding their own... And six of the seven PDX-SJC frequencies operate with jet equipment... The
102 Stirling : Just a random example at how Horizon IS competing head to head with Southwest, throwing their props up against jets, and not being run out of town. B
103 Post contains links Mariner : I agree. But an airline's actions should be considered primarily as to the postiive value to the airline, not the negative value to the competition.
104 F9fan : I expect the ZK affiliation to continue, but on a greatly reduced basis. I wouldn't be too surprised if ZK moves some of their ops over to B (emphasi
105 Ytib : Here is my take on some of the items discussed: Gates: Remember that by the time these are delivered F9 will have all of the south gates on Concourse
106 Post contains links Vivavegas : Reminder: Conference Call now on going.... Will be up for replay at your leisure - http://frontierairlines.com/frontier...stor-relations/conference-ca
107 N1120A : That is incredibly out of the way You have to book those trips the same week on United's E-Fares. You can get them for about $100 all in. Ridiculous
108 Mariner : I'm doing this from memory and a few notes. The level of quesitioning was pretty low - most of the analysts had done their thing at the Shareholders
109 Floridaflyboy : I am very familiar with the Montana commercial aviation market and I can guarantee you that there is plenty of service between HLN and BIL as it is,
110 Post contains images Lightsaber : Interesting tidbit. My math put the time at a bit more... but there is a reason I'm not on the operational side of an airline. Good question. Is F9 l
111 Mariner : This is a bit complicated, Lightsaber. The RFP is for a total of 20 CR7's. Horizon presently provides 9, but that original contract provides for the
112 Post contains images Lightsaber : Good perspective, thanks for all of the information. I agree with the relatively unique competitive landscape. I wonder if F9 will "strech" any into
113 Coronado990 : They'll need some summer destinations to augment the winter resorts of EGE, ASE, HDN & DGO. JAC is a good start but I would like to see GCN service f
114 DIA : From my limited sources, it is my understanding that the reason F9 was able to get Horizon CRJ-700 service in the first place is that Horizon was loo
115 NWDC10 : I'm affraid it's going to be worse than a recession. I believe a depression is coming instead. I will say this in advance. "Told Ya So" If you only k
116 Post contains links Gmcc : Looks like Horizon will have a few more aircraft soon. See story below. http://www.alaskasworld.com/newsroom...s/QXstories/QX_20060920_113954.asp
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