Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AC B777-300ER YYZ-LAX-SYD Routing  
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12670 times:

I've just read the YYZ News and it looks like AC will deploying their B777-300ER to SYD via LAX from YYZ. This will be very interesting especially having the big B777-300ER doing portion of the route YYZ-LAX then continuing onto SYD. Here's the link you will have to scroll down a bit.
Your comments are appreciating. We all thought it would have been B777-200LR not the 300ER even though the 300ERs are the first to arrive before the 200LRs.

http://www.yyznews.com/Sep.html


U.S. Open Skies on hold ---a new open-skies treaty with the United States that is expected to lead to lower ticket fares and more options for Canadians who want to fly abroad will not get off the ground September 1st as it was originally announced, officials from Transport Canada said. The deal has been stalled as Air Canada awaits anti- trust ruling from the U.S. Department of Transportation allowing the airline to co-operate on international routes and pricing with United Airlines and other members of the Star Alliance. The deal is still expected to take effect later this year. Meanwhile, some airline industry executives are pushing the government to sign similar "free trade" deals for the skies with other countries. Currently their are two agreements in place with the UK and with the USA, but the United States has more than 70 agreements with other countries. The new Conservative government appears more willing to take a free-market approach to air travel than previous Liberal governments industry officials say. Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon asked the government to "aggressively explore opportunities for further liberalization and to develop a new international air policy to guide our future negotiations." Once the Canada-USA deal is finalized, the next hurdle for Air Canada will be negotiating with the Australians to allow Air Canada to operate their proposed Los Angeles-Sydney route next summer with their newly acquired Boeing 777-300ERs

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4940 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12603 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter):
Once the Canada-USA deal is finalized, the next hurdle for Air Canada will be negotiating with the Australians to allow Air Canada to operate their proposed Los Angeles-Sydney route next summer with their newly acquired Boeing 777-300ERs

So the much vaunted (supposed) agreement that is to give Canadian carriers 5th freedom rights from U.S. points is not signed.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12534 times:

Not yet. we'll just have to wait for the anti trust ruling.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5311 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12073 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter):
We all thought it would have been B777-200LR not the 300ER even though the 300ERs are the first to arrive before the 200LRs.

I always said it would be the 773ER.


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12039 times:

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I'm a little confused as to the details of the agreement.

I always thought that there didn't need to be negotiations between the US and the third country outside of what their present agreement (ie: Canada/Australia) agreement was today.

I thought this was much the same for US carriers operating flights via Canada (ie: SAN-YVR-NRT, etc.). The US carrier wouldn't need approval for flights YVR-NRT, but rather traffic rights would fall under the SAN-NRT portion.

Can someone clarify?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12026 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 4):
I always thought that there didn't need to be negotiations between the US and the third country outside of what their present agreement (ie: Canada/Australia) agreement was today.

I thought this was much the same for US carriers operating flights via Canada (ie: SAN-YVR-NRT, etc.). The US carrier wouldn't need approval for flights YVR-NRT, but rather traffic rights would fall under the SAN-NRT portion.

Not sure if I'm answering you fully FLY777UAL, but what I think the article is saying is
1) Canada and the US are still working on there own open skies agreement for travel between the 2 Countries, but Air Canada is awaiting anti-trust immunity on their codeshare with United etc.
2) On a separate issue, Canada and OZ have to try negotiate openskies because I presume at the moment Air Canada can only offer pax the YYZ-SYD routing and don't have 5th freedom rights to offer US pax the LAX-SYD portion. (At the moment Qantas/United and I think only recently Virgin Blue have access to OZ-US flights) and that is what Air Canada are looking for.

Feel free to correct my interpretation of the above anybody, but that is my understanding of the article.



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11982 times:

Based on Boeing's details if it was necessary AC could most likely fly direct YVR-SYD with the 773ER if they had to. It would be a bit tight at certain times of the year with winds, but if they really had to they could always fuel up at NAN (which is pretty much on track on the flightpath). But 95% of the time I'd say they could make it direct with reserves to spare.  Smile


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5311 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11966 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
Based on Boeing's details if it was necessary AC could most likely fly direct YVR-SYD with the 773ER if they had to.

They plan to do YVR-SYD to replace the current service via HNL, they will almost definatly use the 772LR on the non stop YVR-SYD.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4940 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11870 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 5):
On a separate issue, Canada and OZ have to try negotiate openskies because I presume at the moment Air Canada can only offer pax the YYZ-SYD routing and don't have 5th freedom rights to offer US pax the LAX-SYD portion.

Canada and OZ still have to negotiate the right for Canada to fly to and from the U.S. through LAX. Presently the right only permits HNL and SFO.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4940 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11711 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter):
I've just read the YYZ News and it looks like AC will deploying their B777-300ER to SYD via LAX from YYZ.

In my view this publication should not be considered authorative. It appears to me that it pulls together stories on aviation matters from a variety of sources.
Certainly it does not speak for AC.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11699 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 5):
(At the moment Qantas/United and I think only recently Virgin Blue have access to OZ-US flights)

Wrong. Any US carrier can fly Oz-US at their pleasure.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGoBlue From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11413 times:

Cannot Wait for the T7 in AC livery, will be spotting at YYZ when this day comes!

User currently offlineGetdonnie From Bermuda, joined May 2006, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8009 times:

Not sure if I'm answering you fully FLY777UAL, but what I think the article is saying is
1) Canada and the US are still working on there own open skies agreement for travel between the 2 Countries, but Air Canada is awaiting anti-trust immunity on their codeshare with United etc.
2) On a separate issue, Canada and OZ have to try negotiate openskies because I presume at the moment Air Canada can only offer pax the YYZ-SYD routing and don't have 5th freedom rights to offer US pax the LAX-SYD portion. (At the moment Qantas/United and I think only recently Virgin Blue have access to OZ-US flights) and that is what Air Canada are looking for.

Thank you Pilot21 I think you are correct. If we consider the current routing for ANZ: AUK-LAX-LHR or, if Singapore still flies it, JFK-FRA-SING, hopefully AC can offer the same service without any incumbrances.


User currently offlineCGOJZ From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7963 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
In my view this publication should not be considered authorative. It appears to me that it pulls together stories on aviation matters from a variety of sources.
Certainly it does not speak for AC.

Very true, however the Editor has more than 30 years in the industry, primarily with AC, and as many years experience in aviation journalism. He is considered by many (including myself) to be one of the best sources of factual, and reliable airline news in Canada.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Quoting CGOJZ (Reply 13):
Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
In my view this publication should not be considered authorative. It appears to me that it pulls together stories on aviation matters from a variety of sources.
Certainly it does not speak for AC.

Very true, however the Editor has more than 30 years in the industry, primarily with AC, and as many years experience in aviation journalism. He is considered by many (including myself) to be one of the best sources of factual, and reliable airline news in Canada.

I agree with Sunrise Valley its true that its not official yet and it doesn't speak for AC, however CGOJZ is right that they have many years experience with airline industry so they could be right too.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3325 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Quoting Getdonnie (Reply 12):
2) On a separate issue, Canada and OZ have to try negotiate openskies because I presume at the moment Air Canada can only offer pax the YYZ-SYD routing and don't have 5th freedom rights to offer US pax the LAX-SYD portion. (At the moment Qantas/United and I think only recently Virgin Blue have access to OZ-US flights) and that is what Air Canada are looking for.

Correct.

Only SFO and HNL are possible intermiediate points in the current Canada-Australia air services agreement.

If AC wants YYZ-LAX-SYD, talks with Australia will have to be held very soon..


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

If the Australian government banned SQ from flying SYD-LAX, what makes AC think they will have permission to? AC entering the route would do alot of damage to QF's market. AC's new 777-300ER product is supposed to be very advanced, and obviously alot better than what QF has on the route right now. I doubt AC will get the permit.

With the 5 777-300ERs, they plan YYZ-LHR and YYZ-LAX-SYD. Is there any other backup route they plan if this SYD doesn't work?


User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 890 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6626 times:

Kaitak 744,
AC already have rights to Australia through the U.S, it is however HNL and SFO, they need to negotiate LAX into the deal, most likely not a major problem.

As for the AC product on ther 773's, it may well be top of the line for when it comes out, but it will most likley be competing with what QF will offer on their 380's, if they ever get delivered !!!

Bring on the 773's and the 777LR's, when need some action down here !!

RL


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 17):
As for the AC product on ther 773's, it may well be top of the line for when it comes out, but it will most likley be competing with what QF will offer on their 380's, if they ever get delivered !!!

It will be a great battle between QF's A380 and AC's 777-300ER if AC can fly YYZ-LAX-SYD......

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 17):

Bring on the 773's and the 777LR's, when need some action down here !!

well...if QF ever decided to purchase a few, they can bet that they'll get my business........

[Edited 2006-09-08 05:53:36]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5524 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6554 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
It will be a great battle between QF's A380 and AC's 777-300ER if AC can fly YYZ-LAX-SYD......

Yes it would be especially when you to airlines flying their flagship aircraft on the route


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 19):

Yes it would be especially when you to airlines flying their flagship aircraft on the route

agree... checkmark ...UA might be the "loser" in this.....if AC is allowed to fly LAX-SYD, then one can also get Star Alliance Miles too..

Being a OneWorld Sapphire Member, QF will get my business....and it will be easy to fly with them now that they serve SFO.... Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

UA 744 vs. QF 388 vs. AC 773.

Which one would you NOT take if you had to fly coach? Tough one!

I think by the time that the QF and AC flagships enter the market, we'll see a nice little upgrade in UA's 744 economy product. That's my hope at least.


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5524 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
agree... ...UA might be the "loser" in this.....if AC is allowed to fly LAX-SYD, then one can also get Star Alliance Miles too..

Hmm lets hope there is some kind of upgrade on UA B744 fleet especially on this route.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
Being a OneWorld Sapphire Member, QF will get my business....and it will be easy to fly with them now that they serve SFO....

I think SFO will become daily when QF start their A380 service to LAX.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21):
I think by the time that the QF and AC flagships enter the market, we'll see a nice little upgrade in UA's 744 economy product. That's my hope at least.

Yes lets hope so


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 22):
I think SFO will become daily when QF start their A380 service to LAX.

 checkmark .....that's what I've read also...

That being the case, would be interesting to fly QF's 743 out of HNL...but I'm not so sure about it... no 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 41
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Doesnt AC have the most pitch in coach out of the three?


Member since April 2000
25 YYZYHZ : AC777LR Air Canada offers 32-34 inches in Hospitality....both United and Qantas offer 31 inches, so Air Canada offers the most....
26 VHVXB : maybe downgraded soon to the B763ER. The B743 will be doing PER-SYD/MEL routes
27 Jacobin777 : Thanks.....are the 763's in better condition than the 743's?
28 AeroWesty : UA's Economy Plus at 35" beats both QF and AC.
29 VHVXB : I'm not really sure but the only major difference between the B763 and B743 is that the B743 has PTV's where as the B763 doesn't. I think the seat pi
30 Gemuser : The B743 pax cabin is in excellent shape after their upgrade less than 2 years ago. Not quite complete. The agreement says "HNL, SFO and one other US
31 JoFMO : That lets room for interpretation. When they have to agree on the 3rd destination why is that mentioned in the agreement at all? Can one side really
32 RoseFlyer : I think one of the biggest questions will be if they are allowed to codeshare on this flight. United and Air Canada of course can codeshare on flight
33 Sebring : This is what I live about a.net. You can spend half a day wading through all the uninformed speculation and half-truths. 1. The Canada-US agreement, o
34 JoFMO : But seeing how dominated the LAX market is by QF, the regulators should be happy to get another player. In fact allowing UA and AC to codeshare would
35 BigD : Sebring, Where did you hear that AC's new 777s will have a seating configuration similar to UA's E+? If this is correct this is great, great news! Big
36 DYK : Good info Sebring. From what we are hearing from both Qantas and Air New Zealand in vancovuer is AC will drop the YVR-HNL-SYD. I would think this is
37 Drgmobile : Here here on Sebring's comments, but I can add that bilateral negotiations are upcoming this year between Canada and Australia to review the current r
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : thanks.. ... interesting....31".. ...they need to have an Economy+/World Traveler+ like UA and BA have... thanks... ....well...I guess if I'm going t
39 Aussie747 : How many flights each day are AC allowed into Australia is it only two flights a day? Thanks for the info.
40 Anzff : Not quite true - there is a small but vital distinction. The Agreement does not provide for an additional intermediate point to be selected by Canada
41 VHVXB : On certain routes it may prove to be success if QF did have in
42 Kaitak744 : Wrong. When SQ wanted to do SIN-SYD-LAX-SYD-SIN, they explicitly promised to use nothing more than 1x daily 777-300ER. The AU government banned that.
43 Post contains images Jacobin777 : MANY routes.....QF needs to distinguish themselves from the competition, especially on the Kangaroo route....as stated above, I'm a One World Sapphir
44 ZK-NBT : I'm not sure about that, for SQ SYD-LAX is not a natural routing whereas for AC it is certainly alot more direct. SQ I thought when they first showed
45 6thfreedom : From memory it's about 1,600 seats each way... so with 7 x B763 its about 1484 seats, and when operated with an A343 it goes over, at 1,974 seats. Yo
46 Kaitak744 : Originally, the 777-300ER was supposed to be delivered in July (or August, I can't remember). They deferred the aircraft once the A380s got deferred
47 ZK-NBT : SQ would have started this route some time ago if they had been allowed when they first applied back in what 2002? They would have run a daily 744.
48 Kaitak744 : Well, they applied several times. In their last and most recent request to the AU government, they stated that they would do nothing more than 1x dai
49 Sebring : It's 3,000 seats for each country per week, with no restrictions on frequencies and aircraft types. Of that, 1650 seats may be used for fifth-freedom
50 ZK-NBT : That was the most recent you said and yes the 773ER would be a good aircraft for the route. But in the past they would have used a 744.
51 FlyDreamliner : And cost more money too. Aside from seating room, AC's quality of service has, in my experience, been top notch. AC is going to be a real threat to U
52 VHVXB : with a better product AC will be threat to UA and QF to a lesser extent who will have their A380 on that route Hardly Premium Economy where you have
53 Aircanada014 : Don't forget UA will be able to codeshare on the new routing LAX-SYD on AC flight even though AC products will be far superior to UA and QF. UA is not
54 SunriseValley : Nothing, once the anti-trust issue is out of the way. This routing is already allowed for under the present Canada-Aus. bilateral agreement.
55 Multimark : But pre-9/11 AC was operating YVR-MEL and YVR-SYD weren't they? I would be surprised if, as others here have suggested, that AC would drop SYD-YVR as
56 FLYACYYZ : Nothing. In terms of inbound connections (YVR/YEG/YYC/YYZ/YUL), LAX is a bigger "hub" than SFO, a larger market for onward traffic, and bears greater
57 6thfreedom : Nov 2001 to Aug 2002. 3pw YYZ-HNL-MEL with pax transferring to/from daily YVR-HNL-SYD. Smart move, providing a one-stop service between 4 cities...
58 YYZTPA : I don't believe Sebring was suggesting the YVR-SYD would have to go. His quote appears to be directed at the second flight which has rights out HNL.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AC To Fly YYZ-LAX-SYD In '07 posted Wed Jan 25 2006 22:47:30 by Sebring
AC//YYZ-LAX-SYD--Is It A Go? posted Fri Mar 24 2006 05:30:23 by FLYACYYZ
When Will AC B777-300ER Be On Production Line? posted Sun Oct 8 2006 23:12:25 by AirCanada014
B777-300ER SFO/LAX-SIN? posted Thu Nov 3 2005 09:52:55 by Zvezda
SQ Vs AC On The LAX-SYD Route posted Sat Mar 4 2006 04:32:55 by AC330
Enhanced B777-300ER Capable Of SFO/LAX-SIN? posted Thu Dec 1 2005 18:21:00 by Zvezda
SQ B777-300ER To Serve SFO & LAX Nonstop? posted Sun Sep 5 2004 11:17:05 by Zvezda
AC YYZ-LAX Downsize posted Sun Feb 22 2004 23:42:22 by B741
AC YYZ-LAX posted Tue Mar 12 2002 03:00:26 by Adair
Sales B777-300ER Vs. B744 posted Mon Nov 13 2006 12:05:35 by Johnny