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What/ When Will AA Replace There MD-80s With?  
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5496 times:

This may have already been discussed but excuse then for bringing it up again. AA have a big fleet of MD-80s which they mistly use out of there hubs at DFW and ORD. However these planes have been around in the AA fleet for quite a while (except the TWA fleet which are also quite old) and i was wondering what will they replace them with? Will they wait for the Y1 or start replacing them with maybe more 738s? maybe if they want smaller aircrat then maybe the 700 variants? this would then allow more comonality in the AA fleet and then allow for aircraft to not only be based at one hub but could be moved around if needed. I know AA are not in the best financial state but they must be thinking of a plan soon. Also what about some 787s in the fleet. they would look real good in the AA colours!!
Any comments would be great!

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26129 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

The topic indeed has been discussed extensively;

A quick search would discover following recent post;
AA's MD-80 Fleet and its future, thoughts? (by Thering Jun 27 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2847257
AA In Talks To Consider Replacing MD-80s (by PanAm_DC10 Jun 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2808398



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

I would say the 737RS. AA's MD-80 fleet will probably be the last of all MD-80s in service to be retired. AA could maybe keep their MD-80s like Northwest is keeping their DC-9s. When American and Delta replace their MD-80 fleets, I hope that their replacement has IFE. Yes, I know that everyone will say that I am obessed with IFE, but narrowbody IFE is on the rise, the 757 started the narrowbody IFE trend, and then the A320 and 737NG came and are widely available with IFE. While the MD-80 fleets don't have IFE, their replacements might indeed have IFE. For example, American's and Delta's 727-200s lacked IFE, while their replacement, the 737-800, DO have IFE.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

e

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):

Honestly. Shut up about the IFE. We know, you get a chubby over a PTV.... That being said, AA really has no use for IFE on their MD-80 replacements because of the fact that most of the stages that it flies do not warrent a need to have it installed. Why waste the weight of the system when it would be used maybe twice a day?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):
Honestly. Shut up about the IFE. We know, you get a chubby over a PTV.... That being said, AA really has no use for IFE on their MD-80 replacements because of the fact that most of the stages that it flies do not warrent a need to have it installed. Why waste the weight of the system when it would be used maybe twice a day?

Please don't be so rude, but actually, I have heard somewhere that AA in the past has considered to install IFE on their MD-80s, but that those plans were axed after 9/11. That is all I have to say about IFE.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Yes, I know that everyone will say that I am obessed with IFE, but narrowbody IFE is on the rise, the 757 started the narrowbody IFE trend, and then the A320 and 737NG came and are widely available with IFE.

And you're obsessed with starting threads about DL too.


User currently offlineCYLW From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

AA uses the MD from YYC-DFW. That's one example where PTV would be worth it. There are probably lots of examples.

User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Ok i didnt mean this to get into a IFE rant but feel free to continue. in ur terms of IFE do u mean in every seat as the 738s dont but have tv's througout the cabin. Also unless the flight is over 3 hours then i dont really see the need to equip every dam seat with a tv so people dont have to move there head to see a tv. The MD-80s (last time i flew them) had the tvs throughout the cabin to they did have some IFE

User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

I hope that when AA does replace their MD-80's they replace them with aircraft that will be more flexible for their route system. For example, the MD-80 cannot fly cross country or to a number of their Latin American Destinations.

User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

B727-200's with no IFE,that's why you have windows!

User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
The topic indeed has been discussed extensively;

But not enough, since there is a need for a replacement of the weekly "What will NW replace their DC9s with?" thread.

 duck 

...and just an observation about the discussion of IFE in this forum. It's nice to have, but READ A BOOK!



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5263 times:
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Desert Air,

MD-80 could do what 727-200 did, they can fly to northern south america and the Caribean. AA doesn't use then in those markets because they don't have life preservers for overwater opertaions. I have flown AA to Colomba many times on 727-200, Avinca the other airline in the market uses an MD-83.


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

If AA replaces the MDs with 737s I am almost sure it will have IFE. As they already have 737s in the fleet, for the sake of commonality and greater fleet utilization, their 737s would all be the same.

As of now, the 737 is the only replacement for AA. I doubt they are considering airbus alternatives.

However as much as 737s are being added slowly to the fleet, I expect us to see the MDs with AA for quite a bit of time. I have flown with AA MDs quite often, and the airplanes are generally in fantastic condition. I thoroughly enjoy my flights on them.

So for now, we are going to see AAs MDs in the fleet, and we look forward to to a possible replacement Boeing will have for them in the future.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 12):
I have flown with AA MDs quite often, and the airplanes are generally in fantastic condition. I thoroughly enjoy my flights on them.

They are. The panneling, overhead bins, and seats in both F and Y are relatively new. From my perspective they are a joy to fly on....

But, let's face it their gas guzzlers. I know AA has some money to get a few more 738s delievered (and they have shit-ton deffered right now,) and to be quite honest I'm not sure why they are going about this slowly. AA is going to have some issues once the ex-TWA 757s leave the fleet (to DL) and all they have are super 80s to replace those routes. The only speculation I have about replacing the super 80s is the 737RS. And thats what a pilot told me in MIA when i was passing through.

So, I'm kinda wondering myself about what will happen....



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

Hmm it seems the 737s seem to be the most talked about for the MDs but what about some ERJs? i mean the 195 could be used for smaller routes and then hand the routes over to Eagle? they already operate the 140s so perhaps they can get some orders for the 195 and bring them into the fleet sooner than they can grab some 737s

User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5083 times:

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
Hmm it seems the 737s seem to be the most talked about for the MDs but what about some ERJs? i mean the 195 could be used for smaller routes and then hand the routes over to Eagle? they already operate the 140s so perhaps they can get some orders for the 195 and bring them into the fleet sooner than they can grab some 737s

Scope, scope scope... its like the 717's.. the AA pilots didn't want to fly them for the lower pay scale so they were sold when AA bought TW, and MQ is limited to 50 a/c in the 70 seat category... I think perhaps with a new round of concessions it might happen but right now its not theasable



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

I really dont think AA knows what they are going to do. It might benefit them-through fuel savings- to replace some of the MD80s with the rest of the 737 order that is pending. But then the two are not direct competitors/replacements for each other. Also, they might want to wait for the 737RS program to see if the improvements in that airplane will warrant them waiting longer.

Personally I dont mind the MD-80s at all. I think they are lovely little planes, and they seem to work very well for AA. And if you're seated toward the front, its great. Nice and quiet. I'd like to see more 737s, and maybe some Embraers that would fill in that 100-seat gap that exists in AA's fleet.

We'll have to wait and see what happens!

-AA777


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8034 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

I think another possibility is that AA doesn't replace their S80 fleet but like NW does a long-life extension program, including the replacement of the original JT8D-219 engines with quieter and more fuel efficient engines such as the Rolls-Royce Deutschland BR720 engine rated at 23,000 lb. thrust, which would allow the S80 fleet to meet the upcoming ICAO Stage IV noise emission rules easily.

User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Get Boeing and an engine mfg to certify a new higher efficiency engine for the MD's. It could even be the engine for the 717. Although a lot of $ to certify new engines need to go on the wing every 8-10 years. It would get the fuel costs way down and reduce the net add if the engines were due for replacement anyway. Doing a 100 to 150 of the MD's would push their retirement date out 10 years or so. This reduces the requirement to replace this huge fleet in like 10 years to more like 20 to 25 years, helping cash flow tremendously.

Regards,
jay


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 7):
i dont really see the need to equip every dam seat with a tv so people dont have to move there head to see a tv.

Tell that to JetBLUE, Frontier, Airtran how horribly IFE works on short hall. Jessh chill dude...


User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Ok it looks like there is no real answer to what AA are gonna do but when does any one want to make a guess on how many years until they make a decision or the last MD-80 will be retired

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):
That being said, AA really has no use for IFE on their MD-80 replacements because of the fact that most of the stages that it flies do not warrent a need to have it installed.

That's a stupid observation.

I thoroughly enjoy the LiveTV service and the live XM satellite radio offered by B6, F9, and FL and the general population does as well.

Delta will be refitting their 757 fleet to offer the Song IFE at each seat, and I think its a wise mood.

Just because a bunch of aviation dorks can stare at the wing all day doesn't mean its not a positive value to the customers.

Lay off him.

N


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13520 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4710 times:
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To replace their MD-80 fleet, AA will need 6 to 7 new airframes per month.  wideeyed  Thus, AA will have incredible negotiating power when the transfer comes. Personally, if they do not seriously consider airbus, they'll pay an extra $1 Billion for the aircraft. IMHO, I think the 738 or 739ER would be AA's best best. I'm of mixed opinion on which would be better for AA.

For both, Boeing has the old 757 waiting to be ramped up... the only question is where they would get the fusalage components from. (Could Spirit ramp up fast enough in Wichita?) Who supplied the 757 fusalage sub assemblies?

I count 136 seats on seatguru.com for the AA MD-80's. Thus, any 738 or 739 would be *growth* for AA.  Smile

738: Commonality with an existing type (including seat count). Ok CASM, but 148 seats is nice from a f/a planning perspective and no need to negotiate a new types flying pay. Not much growth versus the MD-80, but great reduction in fuel burn and a huge increase in fleet flexibility. IIRC, AA has about 240 to 260 *active* MD-80's. (Out of what, 330ish owned). Thus, AA would end up with ~350 738's + expansion.  Smile

739: Reduced CASM, increased seat cound vs. the MD-80's. It would also make the most out of the MD-80 gates.  Smile Maybe 182 seats/aircraft? (20 F, 162 Coach)?

I also see the case for some E190's *if* the pilots agree to a new scale.

Personally, I'm all for fleet simplification. Thus, I would vote for a massive transition to all single isles being 738's.  bigthumbsup 

I'm not sure its worth waiting for the 737RS (and I'm in R&D!).

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 10):
...and just an observation about the discussion of IFE in this forum. It's nice to have, but READ A BOOK!

Agh... but IFE keeps the guy in the seat next to me quiet enough so that I can read.  Wink

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 10):
"What will NW replace their DC9s with?"

 cloudnine  The very foundation of a.net.  cloudnine 

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 17):
I think another possibility is that AA doesn't replace their S80 fleet but like NW does a long-life extension program, including the replacement of the original JT8D-219 engines with quieter and more fuel efficient engines such as the Rolls-Royce Deutschland BR720 engine rated at 23,000 lb. thrust,

I would have liked to see this, but every year that goes by makes the business case for a re-engine less likely. The fact is the MD-80 consumes too much fuel; due to incredible increases in manufacturing efficiency, I believe the business case has gone more to replacement than to retrofit. And I'm a retrofit fan!

Lightaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4669 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Yes, I know that everyone will say that I am obessed with IFE, but narrowbody IFE is on the rise, the 757 started the narrowbody IFE trend, and then the A320 and 737NG came and are widely available with IFE.

IFE has a direct link with communism. Are you a communist?

IFE is from hell and contributes to the fat lazy society that we are dwindling into.

Anybody want some peanuts?




 Big grin



Crye me a river
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 23):
IFE has a direct link with communism. Are you a communist?

IFE is from hell and contributes to the fat lazy society that we are dwindling into.

Anybody want some peanuts?

It's also known to cause ...s h r i n k a g e!


25 KELPkid : Don't forget, AA was using mainline pilots to fly the Fokker F100.
26 William : AAs MD80s are paid for and are cheaper to fly right now than making payments on new 737s despite their better fuel efficiency. Simple as that. When th
27 DAYflyer : AA is going to run those MD-80's until the leading edge slatts fall off. You think NW runs the DC-9's a long time? That wont hold a candle to the hour
28 Post contains images SP90 : Please explain. I'm totally confused.
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