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A Pilot's Letter To Delta CEO Grinstein  
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16607 times:

A copy of this letter appeared today in my email box......

---------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Grinstein, CEO Delta Airlines
General Offices
Atlanta International Airport
Atlanta, Georgia 30320



Dear Mr. Grinstein,


It is with great sadness that I sit down to write this letter. It has been twenty-two years since I first submitted my application to be a pilot for the best airline in the world. In 1984, Delta was one of the top ten corporations, across the spectrum of all industries, to work for in the United States. As a military pilot aspiring to work in the civilian world, it was not uncommon to apply to Delta first, and then, all other airlines. When I was offered the same start date for American and Delta, there was never a question for me. The reputation Delta enjoyed at that time for employee relations were far-reaching and a powerful incentive for prospective employees.


In my first years, the wisdom of my decision became evident. When my wife became very ill, the Boston Chief Pilot, Jim Baker, took me aside and told me to go home and take care of my business. He told me not to worry about my pay or scheduling, that he would take care of both. A few years later, my brother succumbed to cancer and I missed three weeks of work during his final days. My Chief Pilot, Jon Swift, arranged to move my vacation to cover my pay during the time I was unable to work. These men represented a management that CARED ABOUT ITS PEOPLE FIRST, knowing that if you take care of your employees, your business will take care of itself. The stories about our founder, C.E. Woolman and his compassion for his employees are legend. It was widely known that Dave Garret once gave up his seat to a baggage handler who was non-revving and only had very limited time off. In turn, I would have done ANYTHING for this company. Over the years, I attempted always to give 110% to my job and our passengers. In short I always tried to give more than I took. For quite some time, I was a very happy employee, content to be a line pilot and dedicated to my family during my time off.


September 2, 2006 approaches and you finalize your plans to terminate the pilot retirement plan. When our plan was frozen on December 31st, 2004, my promised and hard earned benefit was approximately $1.3 million. I turn 50 on September 7th, 2006. I wanted nothing more than to leave and to never look back.


When the plan is terminated, I will be on an eight-day trip halfway around the world, laying over in Chennai, India with two stops in Europe. Since I will be gone, I wanted to let you know that I consider what you are doing, nothing short of first-degree thievery. For the active and retired pilots of this airline, this injustice is another ENRON. On behalf of my family, I stand against it.


For very complex reasons, the pilots of this airline have taken a disproportionate share of pay cuts. Well over 50% of our salaries and benefits are gone. This constitutes a complete lifestyle change for most. For me, to lose 21 years of retirement accumulation is unrecoverable while I work for 50% less. For the retired pilots of this airline who gave thirty years or more of dedicated service, and be promised an annuity which now pays pennies on the dollar, that is simply criminal.


It would have been one thing if ALL employees had lost their pensions from the CEO down the line, and if we all had taken a proportionate share of pay cuts in an effort to save this corporation from demise. As it turns out, we are the only group who will lose our pensions. How wrong is that? In light of recent pension reform legislation, it is immoral.


The money, which was spent on corrupt and overpriced lawyers and the things you and your Lieutenants said in court about the pilots of this airline in an effort to gut our contract will never be forgotten. You have grossly violated even the most basic principles of leadership. In short, you have traded the dedication and talent of one of the most educated and experienced employee groups for short-term gain. Perhaps this is the reason that almost every co-pilot I fly with now is looking for other work and why it takes eight phone calls to recall ONE furloughed pilot.


You have been most successful pitting one employee group against another instead of bringing all groups TOGETHER working toward a common goal. I will never understand the adversarial relationship between management and the pilot group, which has existed since the Ron Allen days.


This business boils down to a few very simple principles: Clean, well-maintained aircraft operated safely and on-time, given the constraints of the ATC environment and weather, and treating your customers like you understand that they are paying the bills. We on the other hand have thrown hundreds of millions of dollars down black holes, which do not support the core values of our business. There has been absolutely NO accountability for these mistakes.


Under your leadership the past 19 ½ years we have grown the front office from 4 senior VP’s to thirty some at last count. The corruption and dishonesty of Ron Allen, Leo Mullin, Michele Burns, Jensen, et.al. is well known. We have invested in small, uncomfortable regional A/C vs. the long-range aircraft we so desperately need. We have dismantled arguably the finest aircraft maintenance team on the planet and you have all but destroyed the morale of the employees of arguably the best company to work for across the broad spectrum of industries. WE ARE NOW BANKCRUPT! In the near future, the Wall Street Journal will run an article about how great your team is for bringing us out of bankruptcy. Those of us on the inside know the real truth.


Your plan, while it may look good to bottom line seeking investors for the short term, is not sustainable in the long term. From one line pilot’s perspective, the aircraft we fly are getting old and tired. Our heavy maintenance is being farmed out to the lowest bidder. In my own little work environment, our cockpits are still filthy despite the bulletins I receive regularly telling us that there is a program in place to clean the cockpits. The rest facilities for 76 ER crews are substandard on long haul flights and they are abysmal for the flight attendants. Our lounges are over-crowded, not always clean and they are not a good place to relax and recharge during delays or prior to reporting for duty.


In closing Mr. Grinstein, I would like you to know that I have personally re-dedicated myself to doing my job better than I ever have. You can put me on a list if you must and try to run me out of town, but I know for a fact that I am the mouthpiece for many who feel as I do and choose to remain silent. The vast majority of pilots at this airline are honest, hard working Americans who are not looking for recognition, rather, are deeply satisfied accepting a challenge and doing a job well. Please do not confuse our enviable safety record with thinking the job is easy. We operate now in an increasingly hostile and challenging environment and we understand that each time we push back from the gate, we have more corporate liability in our hands on one flight than you people on mahogany row will ever dream of in your entire career. As a group we take that responsibility very seriously and we are openly accountable for any errors in judgment.


When you execute the order to terminate our pensions on September 2nd, you join the ranks of the “Chainsaw Als” and Carl Ichans of the corporate world. And when you and your Lieutenants leave with your millions, as Ron and Leo and Michelle and others did, many after just a few short years of service, and you are back in Seattle, it is my hope that one day, there will be a stirring in your heart and a recognition that perhaps it is not right, and that there is NO RATIONALIZATION OR JUSTIFICATION that corporate execs profit at the expense of honest and hard-working employees.


Only then can there be cleansing and forgiveness. You are Corporate America Mr. Grinstein.


(Name Deleted), father of two fantastic children and husband of twenty-four years, US Naval Academy, class 1979, professional Airline Captain.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7107 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16541 times:

Wow

Thats all I can say right now


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16509 times:

I'd respect the guy more if he would have signed his name to it.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
I'd respect the guy more if he would have signed his name to it.

It's probably the thread starter who deleted it for privacy reasons.

[Edited 2006-09-11 01:04:23]

User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16464 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
I'd respect the guy more if he would have signed his name to it.

It's probably the thread starter who deleted it for privacy reasons.

Yeah, good point. I hope he wrote the same kind of email to Lee Moak, Jim White, Dino Atsalis, and Don Stanton for their poor leadership during this time as well. They're the ones that negotiated the deal terminating the plans in exchange for, among other things, a $600 million note. If I recall correctly though, that deal was voted on by the MEC membership and passed with soemthing like 65% of the vote.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16464 times:

Tough to react to these type of letters as there are two sides - the human and the business.

To the man who wrote it, it is very sad that he and other's are losing hard earned money and defined pensions, I know I would be pissed.

On the other hand, if there is to be a successful corporation, then it needs to happen.

Tough call whichever side you're on.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16442 times:

Lost for words....

F I L L E R
I
L
L
E
R


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16413 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
On the other hand, if there is to be a successful corporation, then it needs to happen.

What part of CEO's not loosing anything in fact gaining more do we not understand here??


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16369 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 2):
I'd respect the guy more if he would have signed his name to it.

He did sign it. I deleted the name.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16207 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 7):
What part of CEO's not loosing anything in fact gaining more do we not understand here??

What exactly did Grinstein gain? Just curious...


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16166 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 9):
What exactly did Grinstein gain? Just curious...

A "Wall Street success story" turnaround credibility, also to his supporting staff - not so much himself. Remember, there are generally only three type of people that make it to the top:

-Genious/Engineer for a line of product or service
-Sales leaders
-Success stories (Wall street or business school)

I don't like working for the middle type or last type.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineMjlhou From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16097 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 7):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):On the other hand, if there is to be a successful corporation, then it needs to happen.
What part of CEO's not loosing anything in fact gaining more do we not understand here??



Quoting Positiverate (Reply 9):
What exactly did Grinstein gain? Just curious...

I'm not sure if he gained a whole lot...but I'm sure he's making a hell of a lot more $$$ as a CEO than this pilot is, or any other DL employee for that matter. I understand it's a complicated job to run a company and that he's probably facing constant scrutiny, but why does Grinstein, or any other CEO of any other company that's in financial trouble need to make millions vs. half a million for example? At least until the company is out of bankruptcy??! This alone would save a lot of $$$. This would also show the employees of any company, or DL in this case that their leader is also willing to give a little too.  banghead 



Don't worry about things you can't change or control
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16077 times:

When I first read this letter, I wanted to go on a tirade.  hissyfit 

I realized, though, after stepping back and taking a deep breath, that sadly, this is a symptom of businesses world-wide.

There are so many business graveyards littered with the wreckage of companies so horrifically mismanaged that it would be comical if it wasn't true. All it takes is one person or group of people to come in and ruin a successful company. Airlines have certainly had a disproportionate share, but Enron and Montana Power come to mind as well.

I wonder what the opinion is here as to how business will be conducted in the future. Will anyone have health insurance? Will anyone have any kind of defined-benefits pension system?

I'm off my soap box. Saddened, but I'm off.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16038 times:

I would feel the same way this pilot does right now if I were in his position. I'm glad he gets to enjoy such trip to exotic destination. If he retires at 60, i'm sure he will have some retirement plan.

What are DL pilots supoosed to do? Fly until 60 and become a S/O for a cargo airline running rubber dog shit across some foreign country.

He HAD every right to write that letter and hopefully other pilots at DL will follow suite.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 16015 times:

I'm waiting for the "He's free to quit anytime" crowd to pipe in on this one.

User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15956 times:

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 14):
I'm waiting for the "He's free to quit anytime" crowd to pipe in on this one.

Or the "he's lucky they even pay him to fly an airplane!" crowd, as they jack off to airlinemeals.net.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4061 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15938 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
There are so many business graveyards littered with the wreckage of companies so horrifically mismanaged that it would be comical if it wasn't true. All it takes is one person or group of people to come in and ruin a successful company. Airlines have certainly had a disproportionate share, but Enron and Montana Power come to mind as well.

Defined pension benefit have been waining now for some 20 years. The US Federal Government started the trend towards defined contribution or 401k plans back in 1983 when they ceased to hire new employees as part of the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) and began to assign new hires to the newly created Federal Employee Retirement System (FERS).
I think this is very sad for all DL employees who have 10 or fewer years left before they must retire as is the case with this well accomplished wide-body jet captain. I think it is unfortunate that DL had to be mismanaged by two successive CEO's in Ron Allen and Leo Mullin that brought them to this point. Mullin clearly was in for much to long and robbed the company blind with his blatant mismanagement and then was allowed to retire honorably at the end of 2003. Grinstien along with his two top lieutenants Jim Whitehurst and Ed Bastian have been left with a huge mess to clean up from a carrier that should have emerged from 9/11 in better shape than the two larger ones UA and AA. Sadly the pilots and many of the employees at DL have had to pay for the mismanagement of a few at the top.
As for the future of retirement in general what is really tragic about this mismanagement is that DL of all the legacy carriers was in the best position to offer an orderly transition from the defined benefit to the defined contribution type plan. But Leo fiddled it all away while Atlanta burned. DL could have been an industry leader in plan conversion. If DL and other carriers that are part of the legacy of North America are to remain competitive with the WN's and the B6's as well as the F9's they must convert such benefits to lower their overhead. GM and Ford are finding out the hard way as well. The defined benefit plan is an AFL-CIO brain-child of class equalization more than anything, but lets face the reality, it is no longer something that can make any business sense.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15915 times:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 15):
Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 14):
I'm waiting for the "He's free to quit anytime" crowd to pipe in on this one.

Or the "he's lucky they even pay him to fly an airplane!" crowd, as they jack off to airlinemeals.net.

I agree %100,but not a pretty picture"OOH OOH SALMON SALAD OMELET OOH OOH"


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15882 times:

Just another reminder of how deep and painful the sacrifices of DL employees have been.

Delta employees have been doing an outstanding job of running the airline--the best they've done in years.

Rebuilding the trust between labor and management at DL will take many, many years. What senior management does when DL emerges from bankruptcy and the big profits start rolling in will reveal a lot about their values.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15844 times:

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 11):
I'm not sure if he gained a whole lot...but I'm sure he's making a hell of a lot more $$$ as a CEO than this pilot is, or any other DL employee for that matter. I understand it's a complicated job to run a company and that he's probably facing constant scrutiny, but why does Grinstein, or any other CEO of any other company that's in financial trouble need to make millions vs. half a million for example? At least until the company is out of bankruptcy??! This alone would save a lot of $$$. This would also show the employees of any company, or DL in this case that their leader is also willing to give a little too.

Actually...he makes less then half a million. Lets take a quick look at the facts:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 16, 2004
COMPANY NEWS; DELTA AIR LINES CHIEF WILL TAKE A PAY CUT FOR 2005
By ERIC DASH (NYT)
Gerald A. Grinstein, the chief executive of Delta Air Lines, said yesterday that he would accept a salary of $450,000 in 2005 after giving up half of his $500,000 yearly pay in 2004 as the company staves off bankruptcy. Delta said Mr. Grinstein's $500,000 salary would remain the same, but he would take a 10 percent pay cut along with all other executives and salaried workers. Delta's pilots, the airline's only unionized labor group, accepted a 32.5 percent pay reduction in November. In September, Mr. Grinstein said that he would "lead the way" by forgoing $125,000, or the final three months of his salary, as the airline announced plans to cut $5 billion in costs and eliminate as many as 7,000 jobs through 2006. Delta said Mr. Grinstein also declined $125,000 in pay during the first quarter of 2004, but did not disclose the pay reduction at the time. Eric Dash (NYT)

In the fall of 2005, all execs took a 15% pay cut and Grinstein took another 25% pay cut, which if my math is correct is a little north of a $110K paycut. (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051229/BIZ01/512290324). So if that is $110K off of $450K, that puts him a little north of a 777 captain. But at the end of the day, and all due respect to the 777 captains, he is the CEO.

According to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/MIWE.html), Grinsteing ranks 490th (I believe out of the Fortune 500 CEO's) in compensation. He ranks 15th in the transportation secto behind such other airline CEO's as Doug Steenland ($1.46 million), Glenn Tilton ($1.12 million plus $11.05 million in shares), Larry Kellner ($1.03 million), Gerard Arpey ($650K plus $1.92 million in shares), and Gary Kelly ($610 K) (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Transportation_Rank_1.html).

The SEC website is not loading on my laptop for some reason or we could go into other exec slaries as well. I do happen to know of 3 execs who lost their salaries with the pilot pension plan collapse.

I understand this pilot's frustration, and I do not blame him. And as the CEO of the company, Grinstein is the person he should direct that letter too. However, this was a chain of events that was set in motion before Grinstein became CEO. And the author of the letter fails to mention the $600 million note that his union negotiated for value of the plan, and that in court his union leadership did not object to the termination. Not picking on the pilot leadership (specifically Jim White, Curly Culp, and Lee Moak), but who knows what the outcome would have been if they had negotiated a little earlier, or had pitched the idea of freezing lump sum distributions when the plan reopened for distributions in May. My point is, I hope he is also directing his frustration at them as well. Further, as I recall, this plan was voted on by the pilot group and almost 65% voted for it.

Grinstein and the pilot leadership tried to work together to preserve the plan. At best the pilots would have had to have frozen accruals to the plan anyway to take advantage of ongressional relief. As I understand it, at worst, the combination of the note plus the PBGC guarantee of $913 million gets them in the neighborhood of on average $75K per year per pilot. http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/companies/delta.reut/index.htm

There is enough blame to go round for everyone, but to criticize Grinstein's salary, or other current executives salary, and go into the class warfare is unfair.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15844 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 10):
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 9):
What exactly did Grinstein gain? Just curious...

A "Wall Street success story" turnaround credibility, also to his supporting staff - not so much himself. Remember, there are generally only three type of people that make it to the top:

-Genious/Engineer for a line of product or service
-Sales leaders
-Success stories (Wall street or business school)

I don't like working for the middle type or last type.

He's 75 with a resume a mile long...you think he needs a success story for turnaround credibility? Please...


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15799 times:

Why is NW able to keep its pension, but DL is not, when they are in similar financial shape?


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMjlhou From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15774 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 19):
Actually...he makes less then half a million. Lets take a quick look at the facts:

I wonder what HIS retirement portfolio looks like and what kind of other bennefits, like bonuses he'll get? I'm sure that he won't have to worry about a pay check, no matter what the size, after he retires. It seems that sometimes companies give execs bonuses or stock options so it doesn't look like their salaries are really that high.



Don't worry about things you can't change or control
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15750 times:

Absolutely amazing. I respect him in every way. Unfortunately there are not enough people who stand up for who they are and actually speak up. Many stay silent until is it simply too late.  Sad

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15469 times:

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 22):
Actually...he makes less then half a million. Lets take a quick look at the facts:

I wonder what HIS retirement portfolio looks like and what kind of other bennefits, like bonuses he'll get? I'm sure that he won't have to worry about a pay check, no matter what the size, after he retires. It seems that sometimes companies give execs bonuses or stock options so it doesn't look like their salaries are really that high.

Click on the Forbes link in my post. Better yet, here it is again: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/MIWE.html

According to that, no bonuses and no stock options. Also go to SEC.gov and look at their filings. All that is oulined there as well.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 21):



Why is NW able to keep its pension, but DL is not, when they are in similar financial shape?

They aren't able to keep the pension. The accruals have been frozen, and as far as I know they are negotiating with the PBGC on the terms of the turnover.


25 Ejmmsu : If this is the case, you know something most of us don't, since I thought the change in pension laws was going to allow NW to keep their pension.
26 Reggaebird : Well, the Delta pilots are not losing all of their pension benefits! Isn't the Pension Guaranty Trust (government) picking up where DL and United have
27 Incitatus : While some of the strong words in the text are warranted, I question the wisdom of the pilots at Delta as a group. Just a few months ago their threat
28 FlyPNS1 : Actually yes. Despite the mile long resume, if DL had liquidated, all of Grinstein's other business accomplishments would have meant little. The real
29 WesternA318 : Amen to that, you have to remember Grinstein took over after Mullin and Michelle raped the airline. He's just pickingup the pieces and starting again
30 Positiverate : As chairman, yes, as CEO...no. Please. No one has ever intimated that every single employee at DL is happy. And all I am saying is that while he cert
31 WesternA318 : Isnt that how it is at every airline/corporation in the world?
32 AerLingusA330 : This CEO is a far cry from US Airways' CEO who declined his bonus last year for the sake of his company. DL is making US look good.
33 RwSEA : As with most other things in a capitalistic society, wages are dictated by the market. In the market, a CEO/CFO/COO and other management are worth mo
34 Post contains images FXramper : I had dinner tonight with my uncle, a Sr International AA Captain, FFDO, and Check Airman for 757/767 at AA. He told me what DL and the US Gov. did to
35 Positiverate : Again, look at the links I provided. Grinstein hasn't taken any bonuses either. His base salary is about half of Parker's $650,000 salary. Parker als
36 Supa7E7 : Dear Mr. Grinstein, Blah blah blah. The pilot has failed to come to grips with his own naive views. Delta pilots destroyed a lot of American investors
37 Jumbojet : I dont work for Delta. in fact, I dont work for the airline industry but I am a unionized employee with a city pension and I can certainly feel the pa
38 Brdcessna : WOW I am speecheless.
39 Centrair : Crimey! Sorry to go off DL but...He should give $1 mill and it would certainly help the company.
40 Positiverate : Now hold on. I'm certainly not a fan of the way the union leadership has conducted itself, but DL's Chapter 11 issues were certainly NOT solely cause
41 Positiverate : Yeah, I was shocked by that too. At least Grinstein took a pay cut when asking for wage concessions. Steenland's making a mint over there.
42 Jacobin777 : its like that with all companies..how many dot.bom companies or telecom companies or "tech" companies no longer exist, or the their stock is down 99%
43 Wjcandee : Just imagine if this wonderful pilot had instead been able to have his company make his pension contribution into a retirement account that HE OWNED a
44 Panamair : Of course not, in a company with over 50-60,000 employees? The pilot vote on the new contract passed with a 65% vote, of course there are people not
45 Redcordes : Two of the most devestating things to happen to American labor in the last 20 years are a result of our Congress. Both of these favor the large-busine
46 Post contains images 777DAD : You my be right. However I feel many Pilots, especially younger ones will keep silent out of fear of repercussions.We should hope not.While a common
47 Bobnwa : Can you give any proof that Grinstein has made millions? Quite a few of the replies have shown he didn't.
48 FlyPNS1 : Why? Is DALPA responsible for running the company? The buck stops with management and management failed. End of story. Not really. Most pilots don't
49 GeorgiaAME : Which is why we have the highest standard of living on the planet. If socialism and unions are your forte, please, try France or Germany, with an une
50 Panamair : Well, ONE of the ways that Mullin and Allen destroyed the company was by caving in to the DL pilots' "UA+1" contract, by agreeing to the lump sum pro
51 Redcordes : Don't bicker over details/incidents. Look at the big-picture stuff on national and global levels that drive these individual cases. Sure the managemen
52 FlyPNS1 : I disagree. While the pilots contract was rich, it didn't cause DL's downfall. If having the highest paid employees is such a disaster, then WN shoul
53 Jumbojet : Is this guy is a 76 pilot? then how old are the 763ER's? Are they that old and in need of replacement immediately or in the very near future? What is
54 SLCUT2777 : And what's your answer? Socialism with a nationalized carrier where unions get what they want, when they want all the time? Do you really think an ec
55 Positiverate : See, thats a cop out that ALPA always takes. On the one hand, they like to prentend they're running the show. But when the going gets tough, and the
56 FlyPNS1 : How is it a cop-out? Is management not in charge of running the company? WN is heavily unionized and the WN pilots have pushed for high compensation,
57 B737900er : Right, since delta has all those unions. Sort of how NW couldn't afford to pay their mechanics so they replaced them and then their maintenance costs
58 Mjlhou : I understand, as said in my post that being a CEO is a complicated job. I didn't say that the position of a CEO doesn't warrant higher pay than rank
59 Bobnwa : Please give the details of this.
60 Redcordes : Don't pretend to have one. Are you in a union? "socialist, leach filled, tax-payer sucking enterprise!" I've often heard of the U.S. government refer
61 DL021 : The pilot wants his defined benefits, while the airline can only pay out if they stay in business, he only understands that he's losing what was promi
62 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Thank heavens NO! I don't want 2% of my gross paycheck going to prop-up some union fat-cat! That is typical of the rhetoric from the far right. From
63 Redcordes : I know several govt. employees (federal, state, county, local) and they all admit that virtually all these employees are "taking advantage" of the sys
64 FLALEFTY : Labor unions and defined-pension programs in the United States are going the way of the Dodo. These are irreversable trends. It seems like in good tim
65 Fewsolarge : Anyone who thinks he's getting a raw deal is free to find employment elsewhere. Any CEO would have had to slash in the same way Grinstein has. To mali
66 Pope : I don't understand why everyone gets upset at the CEO for doing precisely what the law allows. If this pilot should be pissed at anyone, it's the memb
67 SLCUT2777 : I grew up in a town where there was a steel mill operated by US Steel, and all of the horror stories I heard about workers sleeping etc... are MUCH W
68 WesternA318 : Amen brother SLCUT2777...1000% agree
69 Post contains images Skyexramper : Where is a claping emoticon when you need one...       These will have to do. There is a reason why pilots are paid what they are when they flying
70 MCOflyer : Yes your correct and how old is Parker? 40, 42? Grinstein is 75 almost twice as old. If he retires at 60, he might have a pension. Other wise he'll n
71 Lowrider : I think a lot of you need to cut this guy a little slack. From the financial planning point of view, he has been dealt a blow from which he will proba
72 MCOflyer : I've been cutting this guy slack. I just hope he doesn't have to be an oiler on a 747 classic or a 727 flying rubber dog shit to get his pension back.
73 Charlienorth : Sometimes I think people in this camp have never held a job or paid their own bills.It's easy to gripe about union labor and how much people make,how
74 SLCUT2777 : Keep in mind that Grinstien has retirement coming in from his days as CEO of Western Airlines as well as Burlington Northern/Santa Fe Railroad, not t
75 Post contains images Panamair : Yes, I'm sure that would provide the BILLIONS needed to fund the pilot plan.   .And did you even read Replies #24 and #35? Very mature and construct
76 DTWAGENT : It's about time an employee writes a letter like this. I think he is 100% right. And it is not just DL. We can also say the same for UA, NWA, AA, and
77 FlyDeltaJets87 : No one forces your airline to match the fares of Southwest, JetBlue, and AirTran. They can give people cheap fares to go see Grandma or go to Disney
78 WesternA318 : I think he was more referring to ICT-ATL, or ANY city pair WN flies...
79 Charlienorth : Not trying to be crappy to some of you guys who are students,but one day hopefully you will be on an airline's seniority list and then you'll understa
80 We're Nuts : That's just plain stupid. Unions don't take money, they ensure it's distributed fairly. The fact is that Delta's pathetic inability to be profitable
81 WesternA318 : LOL, thats the biggest load of S**T (watch some of the Euro Mods delete this post, althogh anyone else who swears is still on) I've heard so far toda
82 ScottB : After reading the letter in the opening post, I find that my opinion of Delta's pilot ranks has unfortunately fallen several notches (as if they'd car
83 Charlienorth : With only one union on the property??? How about horrible mismanagement.
84 Positiverate : What exactly was "unacceptable and unhuman"? Ummm....he did cut his salary. By 15% and then another 25%. And what bonus are you talking about? He has
85 FlyPNS1 : So if a guy puts a gun to your head and says "give me your wallet" and you give it to him, did he take it from you or did you willingly give it up? T
86 We're Nuts : No one is getting rich off of unions, but collectively we all earn more.
87 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : This is even a bigger crock of BS! DL has taken steps to insure commonality with it's fleet, eliminating all of the old inefficient airframes and wha
88 Positiverate : They could have continued to fight it out in court, or struck the company. They talked a big game throughout that whole process. Maybe the MEC leader
89 FSPilot747 : I think we're underestimating the price of oil, here. That's a huge chunk of the equation.
90 Incitatus : That depends on whether you include in the count all the employees out of a job because the union arm-twisted the company into higher and higher pay.
91 WesternA318 : Collectively my ass...CO, EA, and even at TW in my time there we were being screwed over by the union "leadership".
92 We're Nuts : You prefer Frank Lorenzo?
93 Floridaflyboy : Amazingly well written. From talking to the Delta guys I know, it sounds like this really sums up all of their thoughts. Kudos to the author of this a
94 WesternA318 : LOL, he helped spurn the unions into action, I'll admit. But the unions were at fault as well in the case of EA.
95 AAgent : Hmmmm....I wonder how often he revisits that decision in his mind.
96 Surfdog75 : The thing here is that someone's retirement should never be on the table. It was earned compensation that the company was entrusted to invest for the
97 DeltaGuy : Not quite. During the years that you speak of during the Mullin debacle, Grinstein was the "non-executive" chairman of the Board. Unless you do not k
98 COIAH756CA : I feel for this guy who wrote the original. I feel for all the US and DL guys who have had retirement issues.. No problems here at CO. Hopefully it wi
99 EWRCabincrew : Not any more they aren't.
100 FlyPNS1 : You seem to be confusing voting for this deal and being happy with this deal. I have met many pilots who voted in favor of it, but it doesn't mean th
101 Bobnwa : He's probably happy with his decision monetarily. Hw would have made a lot more money during his career at DL than at AA.
102 DeltaGuy : As I said, how many Delta pilots do you know personally? I happen to know quite a few, but somehow I doubt the pilot on your PNS-ATL flight is just g
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