Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Pilotless Airplanes  
User currently offlineBowflexBrennan From Australia, joined Jul 2006, 124 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4098 times:

I recently saw a video on the internet that showed an airliner landing with no pilots, and computers were directing it. It overshot the runway, crashed into a forest and blew up. I am not sure if this was real or fake, but it got me thinking; do you think that there will be a time when computers do everything, and pilots will be "extinct"? I highly doubt it, and I (along with many others) would be very reluctant getting on a plane with no pilots, but is the idea of no pilots in he cockpit even feasible?

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting BowflexBrennan (Thread starter):
I recently saw a video on the internet that showed an airliner landing with no pilots, and computers were directing it. It overshot the runway, crashed into a forest and blew up.

Uhm, if you were talking about the Air France A320 crash, yes, it did have pilots. IIRC, both the pilots and the plane were to blame.

No passenger carrying airplane has been flown yet without humans at the controls, AFAIK.


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4081 times:

I'm sure a pilotless airplane is possible, but who would want to fly on it? Certainly not me.


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 1):
if you were talking about the Air France A320 crash

Also I think 3 people died in that crash.

I can't imagine any airliner of the future flying without at least one pilot.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4041 times:

I will stop flying once there are no Pilots on planes.

PIA777



GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineGAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 933 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

(All this is hypothetical and theoretical, so please don't flame me.)

Computers don't make mistakes.
Read Asimov's "The Evitable Conflict" (I think that's the one).
It's only the data that the computers are given that can be erroneous, and their programming can be incomplete. Human errors.
Provided that the data the computers are fed is correct, they will make no mistakes and react quicker than a human to any problem, so the only problem I can see for having computer-controlled planes in service is the pilot unions that will want to protect jobs.



"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
User currently offlineSkySurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 4):
I will stop flying once there are no Pilots on planes.

PIA777

I'm in 100% agreement with that....as much as computers can do for us and how 'fast' they are compared to us humans, i personally do not feel comfortable sitting in a plane with no guys/girls up front. If an aircraft receives significant damage thesedays the autopilot shuts off because it can't control things as it's programmed to...but that's exactly where a real pilots instincts and gut reaction kick in. Some people might be fine flying with a microchip at the controls, but when the sh!t hits the fan i want flesh and blood 'drivin' the machine.

Cheers



In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
User currently offlineCharliejag1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

The AF crash was at an airshow and all onboard perished, not just three people. The plane was full of children. The pilot could not get the aircraft out of the 'land' mode, and he only wanted to do a low pass. They stayed at an altitude of maybe 30 feet until it went into the forest, followed by a large explosion. Very sad indeed. As a pilot, I would fly a Boeing any day over a bus.

User currently offlineDeC From Greece, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

Stupid, meaningless junk around the internet (from whoever made the comments heard on the video, saying that ‘that was the first fully-automated flown airplane’ etc).

Here's what actually happened:


http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19880626-0&lang=en

CVR transcript:
http://aviation-safety.net/investiga...ion/cvr/transcripts/cvr_acf296.php



DEC
User currently offlineCharliejag1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

I stand corrected, somehow only 3 people died. I am amazed but relieved. I am also surprised that the report did not mention the automation as a potential factor

User currently offlineSs278 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

The Airbus had numerous software "glitches" in the fly-by-wire system when it was first delivered. It took a few years to get them all resolved.

I remember hearing of a couple of incidents which happened to NWA with their first A320's. It seems that under the right conditions the computer refused to hand back the airplane to the pilots when commanded to do so. This would occur at the top of descent. Until they fixed the software the only way for the pilots to regain control was to shut the plane down and "reboot" it. Fortunately, since they were at cruise, they had the altitude and time to do it. These incidents were ocurring in the mid- '90's IIRC. Haven't heard of another one in years. I have a good friend who is a A320 captain and he loves flying the bird. I have no qualms about getting on one.

JetBlue has been having numerous software problems with their EMB-190's as well. AFAIK, they have mainly happened on the ground. Some of the pilots refer to the airplane as as the EMB-180; it leaves the gate, taxis out and has to do a "180'' to come back to the gate and reboot.

Completely "hearsay" (and I suppose that since the design has now been made public what follows is definitely incorrect) but I had heard that Boeing originally intended to design the 787 cockpit to accomodate one pilot and one dog. The pilots' job was to monitor the instruments, the dog's job was to bite the pilot if he even looked as if he was going to touch anything.


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

I think that first you will see a move to a 1 pilot cockpit on airliners.
The pilot will basically monitor the systems, but the computer(s) will
be flying the jet.
After the safety of this kind of system has been demonstrated, then
the push to pilotless systems will be on.
As labor costs continue to plague airlines, and as technology continues
to advance, I think it is inevitable that this will happen.
Sure, there are lots of people who say that they would never fly in
an airplane without a human at the controls, but when Orville and Wilbur
first flew, I am sure there were many people who said "I'm not going up
in one of those", but look at the industry today.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Quoting BowflexBrennan (Thread starter):
Pilotless Airplanes

You won't see pilotless aircraft, at least civilian ones, for a long time. The technology is there, but society isn't ready to relinquish the controls over to a computer. It won't happen anytime soon.

The military is a different story.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3840 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have seen several remote operated locomotives at industrial sidings and small yards. Usually the operator is is eye shot, but when I don't see him I wonder. I see this on my way to a Friend's house near Flat Rock, MI. on the GTW. I always seem to get stopped by it. I have also been stopped by trains around the USS plant on Zug Island, in Detroit, that have a warning painted on the locomotive stating that the train is remote operated and there is no train crew. Those trains don't go far and go slow, but I don't like it. Plus you are putting a train crew out of job. We need all the jobs we can get here in Detroit!

GM tested a driverless highway in 1939 and again in 1994 or 95. It worked, but that was only on a test track and a small bit of road in California.

As far a pilotless planes, I have seen film, on the History Channel, of some drones from the late 40s that were made from B-17s. I wouldn't want to fly on a pilotless plane. I don't want to ride on a train with no engineer either. I know those trams like the Detroit People Mover (AKA mugger mover) and most airport trams (like those at DTW, MSP, ATL, DEN, etc) don't have on board operators, but those operate in a isolated situation and in a small area.

People like other people controlling situations. Even though people make mistakes, you just seem to feel better when you can have a real person in charge.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineJonno From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

If there had been no forest, would the A320 perhaps had a better chance of a rough crash landing?

User currently offlineCharliejag1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

If the pilot had decided to put it down on the runway, there would have been no accident. The plane would not allow the pilots to climb, that was the issue.

User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 5):
Computers don't make mistakes.

Um, yes they do. Just ask Microsoft.

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 5):
they will make no mistakes and react quicker than a human to any problem

Not to any problem. When the sh*t hits the fan and some unusual circumstances come around outside of the computers programming what will happen? Sometimes doing things "by the book" just isn't good enough.
And in the rare (but not unheard of today) event of computer failure, this is where a pilot earns his pay. A human doesn't need a computer to fly, a computer most definately needs a human.


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4191 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

Multiple system failures... even things such as a decision to continue an approach with t-storms approaching or over the field.. or normal enroute wx deviations. Computers cannot and will not be able to do that stuff.

Much of the weather deviations we do are accomplished visually (around buildups that arent showing on radar but will bump the airplane pretty good). Computers cannot do this.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21526 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 11):
I think that first you will see a move to a 1 pilot cockpit on airliners.
The pilot will basically monitor the systems, but the computer(s) will
be flying the jet.

But then you have to take into account how the time spent monitoring the systems takes its toll on the pilot. I doubt someone could sit alone just watching systems for more than a few hours before they'd need relief. So then you have another pilot. And we're back where we started.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

Quoting Jonno (Reply 14):
If there had been no forest, would the A320 perhaps had a better chance of a rough crash landing?

I believe that when the plane skimmed the top of the tree's, it was slowed gradually. It was a miracle that only three died. What happened to the black boxes? IIRC there was some concern made over the black boxes.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 6):
If an aircraft receives significant damage thesedays the autopilot shuts off because it can't control things as it's programmed to...but that's exactly where a real pilots instincts and gut reaction kick in.

That's why airliners will never be flown by computers that are programmed to fly. The newest generation of robots are not programmed to walk. They learn how to walk, just like a human does. They cope (after a short bit of struggling) to walk in new environments (e.g. on sand, inclines, etc.) Eventually, they will learn how to fly an airliner. Computers (probably in the form of humanoid robotic pilots) will cope with damage exactly the same way that humans do -- only faster and more precisely. Robotic pilots which learn to fly as they go would be able to cope with situations like UA232 at Souix City -- in exactly the same way that the human pilots did, but faster and with greater precision. Would such a robotic pilot have been able to land UA232 without loss of life? No one can say with certainty, but if I were onboard, I would rather have such a learn-as-you-go robotic pilot at the controls than a human pilot.

I expect that cockpits will stay as they are for decades and that, first with cargo aircraft and later with passenger aircraft, it will become normal to have a human captain and a robotic copilot. Before any robotic pilot gets a pilot's license, I think robotic taxi drivers will be ubiquitous, which is probably 10 to 20 years away. People will be comfortable with one human pilot and one robotic pilot in the cockpit. At some point cargo flights will operate with two robotic pilots and no humans onboard. It will probably take a pilots' strike to induce an airline to operate passenger flights without any human pilots. Once that happens, I don't think they'll ever be back. Would pilots be stupid enough to strike when the airline has a fleet of licensed, experienced humanoid robotic pilots that the passengers are used to? The history of unions say yes, at some point they would.

I think the idea of remote controlled aircraft is unlikely to ever become a reality. Control needs to remain onboard for a variety of reasons including reliability and security.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

Nasa did a test back in the 1980s using a remote controlled 720.

Quote:
In 1984 NASA Dryden Flight Research Center and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) teamed-up in a unique flight experiment called the Controlled Impact Demonstration (CID), to test the impact of a Boeing 720 aircraft using standard fuel
with an additive designed to suppress fire. The additive FM-9, a high molecular-weight long chain polymer, when blended with
Jet-A fuel had demonstrated the capability to inhibit ignition and flame propagation of the released fuel in simulated impact tests.



Quote:
The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh (Fitz) Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility. Previously, the Boeing 720 had been flown on 14 practice flights with safety pilots onboard. During the 14 flights, there were 16 hours and 22 minutes of remotely piloted vehicle control, including 10 remotely piloted takeoffs,
69 remotely piloted vehicle controlled approaches, and 13 remotely piloted vehicle landings on abort runway.

The plane was evenutally crashed into the ground. (This is the inflight movie from Airplane)

CID/index.html" target=_blank>http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/movie/CID/index.html
(link seems not to want to post right so copy and past)



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

It would be tough convincing the Pax to fly on a Pilotless Aircraft though.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 11):
As labor costs continue to plague airlines, and as technology continues to advance, I think it is inevitable that this will happen.

Just picking up on that point, even ignoring safety issues, i don't see how pilotless flight could stack up financially.

Just taking landing - probably the trickiest part of any flight - not all airliners have an 'autoland' capability - and even if they do, as I understand it, pilots are not allowed to use the systems except at airports that have the most complete and modern ILS systems. Normally the last phase of any landing is still done manually.

In any case, not all airports have ILS, and virtually none of them have ILS on all runways - and ATC often has to direct pilots to land on non-ILS runways because of the wind direction.

I am only guessing, but probably all takeoffs, 90% of landings, and around 50% of all approaches are still carried out manually.

So, leaving aside the cost of automating the aeroplanes themselves, 'pilotless flight' would entail the expenditure of untold billions on upgrading the ILS systems at virtually all airports, and installing 'state of the art' systems at the many airports that don't currently have ILS at all.

What's worse, it would be the taxpayers (the proprietors of most airports), not the airlines or the manufacturers, who would have to foot the huge bills. And poorer countries just couldn't afford it, they'd presumably have to do without air services?

I just can't see it happening. In face of the sort of costs involved in upgrading all those airports, a couple of pilots in every aeroplane look cheap at the price.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineStealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3522 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Charliejag1 (Reply 15):
If the pilot had decided to put it down on the runway, there would have been no accident. The plane would not allow the pilots to climb, that was the issue.

BS, I flew many sectors in jump seat of A320 in the years after this incident, the major issue is the crew had a misplaced faith in the "system" and it's ability to keep them out of trouble. Basically they had been brainwashed by the "boffins' at Toulouse that the they knew better( I am an IT sytem specialist and the concept that a bunch of pale faced nerds with thick glasses and pocket protectors, living on a diet of Pizza and Pepsi can fly a plane better than a professional pilot scares the s&^t out of me)
Their consensus was.. take a firm hold of the 2 levers on the centre console.. jam them thru the "firewall".. the plane would have said.."OK you want to fly.. let's fly!!"



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
25 Zvezda : Not needed with robotic pilots. They will be able to learn to do anything a human pilot can do. Of course, that's decades away. I'm a firm believer t
26 AIRCANL1011 : As they used to say "All you need to fly a B747 is 1 pilot and a dog. The pilot is there to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he
27 HikesWithEyes : Perhaps, but that doesn't have to be done from inside the aircraft. Part of the transformation will probably mean that dispatchers on the ground will
28 Memphis : So with computers flying, what would their respnose/actions be in a situation such as United 232? I prefer individuals who are trained and spend a lar
29 Zvezda : See reply #20.
30 Cobra27 : There will never be planes with passengers only. Take trains or ships for example,
31 AIRCANL1011 : As long as passengers are unwilling to fly without pilots there will never be unmanned cockpits. This situation may be more of an issue of the passeng
32 GAIsweetGAI : I would call those errors/problems, not mistakes. Actually, to any problem they are programmed to respond to. And that's using the "If... then..." ty
33 BOE773 : I think that pilotless freighters will be the next giant leap for aviation. After all, UAVs are pioneering the technology to make it happen someday.
34 SkySurfer : Well i hope they learn to fly before they learn to walk, otherwise we'll have a few accidents and a few losses of life before our computers learn wha
35 Tangowhisky : PILOTLESS AIRPLANES PRO'S (1) Removes expensive cockpit instruments, displays, windshield, controls (2) Eliminate expensive training devices, maintena
36 Zvezda : The latest generation of robots work this way. The FAA and other license granting agencies are going to be very careful about granting licenses to ro
37 Post contains images NAV20 : Have to say, Zvezda, that surely it would take a fair few hours (not to mention some bent aeroplanes) to teach a guy like that to fly? And I wouldn't
38 Zvezda : Robot pilots would know the elastic limits of the aircraft and would know never to exceed them except to avoid CFIT or collision. I don't think anyon
39 Tangowhisky : Zvezda Approching the pilotless airplanes with robots is a waste and certainly the most inefficient way to address the solution. The solution comes fr
40 Zvezda : Simple: trust. Not to mention the approximately $1 trillion invested in current airliners that have cockpits. I would be very hesitant to be a passen
41 Charliejag1 : I've never flown an Airbus, but as a pilot, the idea that this might not be the case scares the living @#$% out of me. You are right, I was not in th
42 Post contains links David L : Not this old chestnut again. Before guessing at why the A320 crashed at Habsheim, please read this thread. There's a lot of information in there from
43 Wrighbrothers : I personally will not fly a plane without a pilot, unless I have to. Now I have no doubt the military will have pilot less planes, but civilian planes
44 Tangowhisky : The communications with Flight Ops is not really neccessary to fly and land the plane, it is an add-on, as the on-board central command and managemen
45 Zvezda : Of course it's technically possible, but I don't think most passengers would be comfortable with it. Yes, I know that. However, there are failures. T
46 Post contains images David L : I'd also add that I'm not suggesting we "almost" have the technology that can be trusted absolutely. When it comes, it'll need to be tested for a lon
47 BOE773 : An aircraft cockpit is a heavy piece on the front end of the tube. All critical info could be collected in a centralized avionics bay, say fwd of the
48 BOE773 : I respect your weakness, fella. I bet there were many naysayers like yourself po pooing Wilbur and Orville about their lofty ideas in those bye gone
49 Jben : I'm not sure about pilotless aircraft for passengers. There is, however, a place for expert systems. As somebody mentioned before about Sioux City...
50 T7ILS13LatJFK : Well, Speaking to my aeronautics professor at college today, he reassured me (of my already thought idea(s)) that it is NOT foreseeable or feasible fo
51 GAIsweetGAI : As I said, Terminology question. The trust will come someday. When kids are born, and all they know is pilotless airplanes, and they never knew human
52 Post contains images Tangowhisky : These type of arguements are what media type will home in on should Boeing or Airbus decide to slowly move towards pilotless airplanes. But let's get
53 Zvezda : Not just that an instructor was onboard, but that Dennis Fitch was onboard. He had practiced in the simulator flying the DC-10 using only thrust chan
54 NAV20 : Robot pilot to trainee robot pilot:- "Whatever else you do, make sure you stay well away from those bloody metal detectors at Security."
55 Wrighbrothers : A weakness ?, for not wanting to fly without another human up front ?, a weakness in your opinion perhaps, but I beg to differ. Perhaps there were, b
56 Post contains images GAIsweetGAI : I forgot to add- Not to be too picky, but I would change that "not" to a "rarely"... If there's a terrorist, what can it do to stop the robot that ha
57 Zvezda : A robot pilot will not open the cockpit door for a terrorist. A robot pilot will never get up to use the lavatory. A robot pilot will never commit su
58 Post contains images GAIsweetGAI : Oh, I forgot all of those...
59 Zvezda : The dead don't forget.
60 ThrottleHold : The pilots hand-flew the aircraft in a low pass. Thrust was at idle and they were steadily increasing the pitch angle so as to increase the AoA towar
61 BOE773 : Hands up for those that would like to see the following happen: Take an out-of-service 747 from the desert. 'Global Hawk' it's avionics for pilotless
62 Jben : Sure BOE773, like you say i'm sure we can pick a 747 with Rolls Royce engines, i'm sure we'll get it real cheap. On a serious point, what I learned fr
63 Tangowhisky : BOE773, you are right it can be done as a step 1. Step 2, sell short stocks on cockpit avionics and flight simulator manufacturers Step 3, remove the
64 BOE773 : Step 6, make freighters for starters. Step 7, launch them from coastal cities until well debugged. Step 8, a collaborative venture with Airbus and Bo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
QinetiQ Tests Pilotless BAC 1-11 posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:14:28 by N328KF
Sleeping Pills On Airplanes posted Tue Nov 28 2006 18:25:05 by Corsair2
Marriage Proposals Aboard Airplanes posted Sat Oct 28 2006 18:15:19 by JFKNY
Out Of Production Airplanes- Who Has The Most? posted Mon Oct 23 2006 18:00:07 by DIJKKIJK
Comair Airplanes Titles Removed At CVG posted Tue Oct 17 2006 20:59:24 by Loggat
Boeing Studies 2 Airplanes To Replace 737 posted Thu Sep 14 2006 14:57:30 by DAYflyer
Battery Powered Airplanes posted Sun Sep 10 2006 18:10:28 by Dougloid
Which AA Airplanes Will Fly These Flights? posted Wed Sep 6 2006 04:13:41 by OB1504
Batteries In Laptops Pose Risk To Airplanes posted Mon Aug 14 2006 16:42:37 by BoomBoom
Why Terrorists Hate Airplanes posted Fri Aug 11 2006 00:46:10 by NYCFlyer
Airplanes & Skyscrapers (& Names, Oh My) posted Tue Oct 25 2011 18:41:21 by aviateur
New Virgin Blue Airplanes Delivered W/o Live2Air? posted Tue Jan 11 2011 03:25:24 by CXfirst
New Airplanes We Waited For In 1998 posted Tue Dec 21 2010 08:34:44 by OyKIE
Why Are Airplanes Always Paid In USD? posted Sun Dec 5 2010 06:34:35 by MajorTommy
Where Did The Classic Airplanes Fly To In The End? posted Sun Nov 28 2010 01:28:30 by captaink
Are New Airplanes TOO Complex? posted Tue Nov 16 2010 17:31:33 by traindoc
The DC-9 And 737- Not Good Cargo Airplanes? posted Mon Aug 30 2010 10:41:34 by c5load