ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7981 times:
In case people haven't heard, as of today United Airlines is no longer offering economy plus seats to Star Alliance gold and silver card holders and to other full fare paying passengers. The only people permitted to pre-assign seats in Y+ will be United elites, purchasers of the yearly Y+ pass and thoose who pay to upgrade at check in.
Not sure what will happen to those (like myself) who already have Y+ assignments for upcoming flights but whatever the case this will certainly make me think twice before choosing United for transatlantic travel. I may as well fly US Airways and get more legroom.
(sorry if this has already been posted but couldn't find anything )
SNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3232 posts, RR: 24 Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7940 times:
Quoting ManchesterMAN (Thread starter): In case people haven't heard, as of today United Airlines is no longer offering economy plus seats to Star Alliance gold and silver card holders and to other full fare paying passengers. The only people permitted to pre-assign seats in Y+ will be United elites, purchasers of the yearly Y+ pass and thoose who pay to upgrade at check in.
Oh, crap! That's the only thing I can say...
Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7908 times:
Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier. The full-fare thing doesn't make sense, given that those passengers are given S/A upgrades to F as well as Y+ seats.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7861 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 2): Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier. The full-fare thing doesn't make sense, given that those passengers are given S/A upgrades to F as well as Y+ seats.
Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room. You can not for example book an economy plus ticket, you just book your regular ticket and then hope to assign the good seats then.
I really think UA underestimates the extra revenue they gain from other Star Alliance elites who choose their airline purely for E+. I personally see this as a first step to Y+ becomming a seperate cabin like on BA, VS BD etc., possibly to coincide with the upgrade of their international business class seats.
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7861 times:
Will this really affect most of the pax who use and appreciate E+? Seems like United elites represent the bulk of those who get E+ and are the most appropriate and deserving to sit there anyway.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7843 times:
I can understand UA not giving them to other Star Elites (though I'd do it on a space-available basis day of flight), but to take it away from Y/B fare passengers is insane.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22070 posts, RR: 51 Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7843 times:
United has been quite successful with its E+ experiment and the added revenue it brings in.
One of the concerns has been the 'crowding effect' in the E+ cabin as so many people were eligible. Now by more strictly enforcing access to true UA elites, or those that pay extra can sit in the section, the crowding gets somewhat pushed into the regular economy section.
As N1120 mentions one of the problems of Star and other alliances is the lack of reciprocity amongst each others FF program benefits. It has indeed been a one way street with many Star members enjoying UA benefits, which the UA fliers were denied on other carriers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7820 times:
and i'd be interested to know how many pax who pay Y/B fares are NOT UA elite fliers to begin with...
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7780 times:
I think the people it will p!ss off the most are US Airways elites, many of whom will fly UA regularly. I only take the odd UA flight as BD gold and I'm not very happy. I understand they were giving something for nothing but its like giving a kid a candy bar, letting them take a bite and then taking it away from them.
Fbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3688 posts, RR: 31 Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7760 times:
As a non-UA *G myself it is a bit of a blow. I used E+ a few years ago on a couple of transatlantics and it made the journey a lot more comfortable, and I did pick it over BA and VS because of E+. I always knew in the back of my mind that if I needed to travel back to the UK at short notice I could rely on UA for a reasonably comfortable ride home in the cheap seats.
Personally my view is that there are more E+ seats than *G, *S, E+ Access and Y/B fares on each flight (especially in larger longhaul cabins) and that any of the previously allowed groups will probably be accommodated in the better cabin anyway. You'd be surprised at how small the elite population is percentage wise.
Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 3): Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room.
Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7728 times:
Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9): Personally my view is that there are more E+ seats than *G, *S, E+ Access and Y/B fares on each flight (especially in larger longhaul cabins) and that any of the previously allowed groups will probably be accommodated in the better cabin anyway. You'd be surprised at how small the elite population is percentage wise.
My thought too, although these are more likely to be the middle seats the UA elites didn't want.
Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9): Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.
Well it is a seperate cabin and is sold as such in terms of fares. It is not the best premium ecfonomy although it does offer 2-4" more legroom than UA E+ (38") and you do get extras over economy too such as free booze (not available in Y from MAN), power ports in seats, expanded menu and wines and welcome drink on boarding. It also comes with lounge access (atleast at the UK end).
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7717 times:
Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 3): Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room. You can not for example book an economy plus ticket, you just book your regular ticket and then hope to assign the good seats then.
Oh really?
premium economy (short haul)
a fully flexible fare with service benefits
priority seating
advance seat selection at time of booking*
bmi business lounge access, where available
priority check-in (priority check-in desks and self check-in with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in)
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
priority baggage delivery
fare is eligible for double diamond club miles
economy
lowest available fare when tiny fares are not available, offering greater flexibility
automated check-in using self check-in, with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in
advance seat selection at check-in
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
fare is eligible for diamond club miles
tiny
our lowest available fare
automated check-in using self check-in, with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
fare is eligible for diamond club miles
That looks like it might not even be as good as Y+
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6): It has indeed been a one way street with many Star members enjoying UA benefits, which the UA fliers were denied on other carriers.
I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
M180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7671 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 11): I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.
Well the reservation agents should and must give you an exit row or preferred seating if you are an elite in US or *A, over the Internet we can't even recognize frequent flyer numbers of other airlines over the website, that is why you won't be able to preasign an exit row, since the website won't "know" you are an elite member, if you are having problems booking a preferred seat in US just ask for a supervisor, the lack of quality and knowledge of some agents is something I know many passengers complaint about, so ask for a supervisor or a lead agent if you feel the agent is being no help at all.
Just my , because everytime I receive an elite member from any of the *A members they receive all of the benefits they are entitled to when I receive the call but I know some agents don't honor those benefits.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7654 times:
Quoting M180up (Reply 12): over the Internet we can't even recognize frequent flyer numbers of other airlines over the website, that is why you won't be able to preasign an exit row, since the website won't "know" you are an elite member, if you are having problems booking a preferred seat in US just ask for a supervisor, the lack of quality and knowledge of some agents is something I know many passengers complaint about, so ask for a supervisor or a lead agent if you feel the agent is being no help at all.
The over the internet bookings I am talking about were from United.com, which requests the seats from US for me. As far as asking for a supervisor goes, I had to argue with her too. Luckily the MSY US staff are very nice (actually nicer than United's own) and rectified my having to sit in a middle seat on a flight by giving me a free upgrade to F on another.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7631 times:
Forgot about short haul which is a complete joke. However all that short haul "premium economy" is on BD is a marketing term for their most expensive/flexible fares, like "tiny" refers to the cheapest fares. There is nothing extra once you step on board the aircraft.
Mmm, too bad you had that experience, but I'm glad the ground staff helped you, if you ever need something related to US, just PM and let me know, I'll help you out if possible.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7574 times:
Forgot about short haul which is a complete joke. However all that short haul "premium economy" is on BD is a marketing term for their most expensive/flexible fares, like "tiny" refers to the cheapest fares. There is nothing extra once you step on board the aircraft.
Economy Plus is offered on all United mainline and Ted flights and a growing number of Express flights.
As far as long haul goes, you get the same food and IFE in both Y+ and PE as in regular Y-. The only real difference is the free alcohol (which UA offers in all cabins on Pacific flights) and the power port
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18888 posts, RR: 64 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7568 times:
Is the reason UA is doing this because E+ was getting too full with non-UA elite members, or is it just a way of extracting a bit more revenue out of the E+ section? Perhaps a combination of both?
It would seem unwise to charge full-fare Y passengers an extra fee to sit in E+, as they're already paying a hefty sum for the flight in most cases.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7535 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 11): I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.
Interesting. I had to book a US metal flight with US flight numbers on united.com for SEA-PHL and PHL-SEA and it let me book the Exit Row both ways (as a United Premier Executive / Star Gold). I could even use US online checkin and it kept the seat assignments.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7523 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 18): Interesting. I had to book a US metal flight with US flight numbers on united.com for SEA-PHL and PHL-SEA and it let me book the Exit Row both ways (as a United Premier Executive / Star Gold). I could even use US online checkin and it kept the seat assignments.
Odd, because I did the exact same thing and ended up with no seat on the flights
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7523 times:
my guess is that this move is aimed at keeping UNITED elites happy, based on the fact that it's been harder for them to secure E+, and to generate a little more revenue from non-United elites who want E+ but dont automatically get it. i appreciate the fact that they are taking away a perk that full-fare, non-elite pax and other star gold and silver members have previously been able to enjoy. but for all the ranting on this forum about airlines making foolish decisions about recklessly spending or not saving cash (especially against united), it seems prudent for an airline to impose some restrictions on its perks - however limited they may be - and to do things that keep their elite travelers satisifed with distinct benefits.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7513 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 2): Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier.
Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9): Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.
As stated, BD, SQ etc offer a real Premium Economy service i.e. a seperate cabin that can be booked in specific dedicated fare classes. UA E+ is just a comfy bit at the front of the cabin.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7498 times:
Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21): As stated, BD, SQ etc offer a real Premium Economy service i.e. a seperate cabin that can be booked in specific dedicated fare classes. UA E+ is just a comfy bit at the front of the cabin.
The thing is, the service isn't much different from what you get for free or a very nominal fee in Y+. Further, full fare Y was a de facto Economy Plus fare class up till this point.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26725 posts, RR: 83 Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7455 times:
Quoting Potomac (Reply 20): my guess is that this move is aimed at keeping UNITED elites happy, based on the fact that it's been harder for them to secure E+...
It's mostly more that elites want blocked middles in E+ by keeping non-elites out than that they can't get in.
Sure I have seen flights were 25% or more of the cabin were UA or Star Elites, but they should still all fit in F and Y+.
Quote: ...and to generate a little more revenue from non-United elites who want E+ but dont automatically get it.
And I am okay with that. UA has said they're making tens of millions from Economy Plus and Business Class "buy-up offers" at booking, check-in, and at the gate. Buy when you buy a Y or B fare, it's usually because you have no choice in the timeframe you bought it. Now, you'll probably stick with your preferred carrier where possible (due to being able to get upgrades or bonus miles), but if you fly DL and your choices are UA and AA, UA offering E+ for that fare probably won them some business...
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7455 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 22): Further, full fare Y was a de facto Economy Plus fare class up till this point.
That is what I can't understand about this decision. OK fine don't let the *A elite who paid £300 for his LHR-LAX ticket sit in E+ but to block those who pay big $$ for full fare economy is strange. It is these people who make UA their money.
25 FiveMileFinal: Hm, not sure how I feel about this. Obviously I'm not affected by it as I'm PE, but if I were * Gold on another airline it'd probably make me mad. As
26 N1120A: That is what is also the hang up for the rest of us, though I think United may refine that policy at some point.
27 Potomac: again, i'd be curious to see what percentage of full-fare pax are NOT UA elite members, and how much revenue that group represents compared to UAs eli
28 UN_B732: NOt allowing E+ for Y/B fares is abusrd -- one of the reasons I chose UA Y/B fares for my father as a non-elite was thanks to E+ -- now it's gone. Way
29 Daron4000: While it is a "blow" to some, I think that anyone who is a star gold or pays Y/B fares anyways can spend the $299 to buy economy plus access for a yea
30 UAL777UK: Did I hear right that UA makes something in the region $50m on upgrades (at the gate) for Y+??
31 Stitch: While that is a valid option for Star Golds and Star Silvers, I don't believe it is for Y fares, since those folks generally are forced to buy those
32 Zvezda: It's difficult to believe that UA won't be giving Y+ seats to full Y/B fare pax. That would be insane. I've counted 20 1Ks on a B767-200.
33 MSY-MSP: Well, I guess the real issue with this restriction is on international flights, and not domestic. Domestically speaking the plane has X-number of seat
34 Vermeer: I don't like this at all. I am LH *G living in the US and I do use frequently UA inside the country. One of the reasons was the E+ section which gave
35 FCYTravis: This is one US Platinum Preferred member who spent several thousand dollars on United this year thanks to my ability to access Economy Plus. Next year
36 Potomac: so FCYTravis, are you saying that you will go back to USAirways guaranteed 31" pitch and presumably less convenient routings, and give up a chance to
37 Laxintl: Since you brought up Red Carpet lounges, that is a paid membership club for UA fliers domestically while its use is available free to Star Gold. (exc
38 SNATH: OK, I now have a bit more time to write a more extensive post... First, I'm *A Gold (with Air Canada) living in the US and I'm personally totally gutt
39 SNATH: You are right, I've always found this a bit weird. However, do keep in mind that *A carriers do accept UA *A Gold members in their lounges... so IMHO
40 Vermeer: I don't think it is relvant that it is a paid membership club. Lounge access is a part of the agreement that the alliance airlines have, it is recipr
41 Zvezda: The implicit assumption you make here is that all airlines offer otherwise equal services. By offering the certainty of Y+ to full Y/B passengers, UA
42 UAPremierGuy: Um, this is a great discussion and everything, but have we even confirmed this to be true? What is the source? Where is the article? Personally, as a
43 Aerorobnz: It makes heaps of sense and is a good step for UA. NZ doesn't assign seats in Y+ for Y ticketed frequent flyers either. It dilutes the value of the pr
44 N1120A: If the flight is full, you are still going to get Stan from Sheboygan sitting inbetween you and Karl 1K.
45 FCYTravis: Hardly. I'm saying that I'll go back to nearly-guaranteed comped upgrades to US Airways domestic First Class, with 36"-38" pitch, leather seating, fr
46 M180up: I was talking about US.com, the website I provide support of... well as a travel agent support agent also I confirmed this today, I had a chairmans p
47 UAORD2000: Bingo! I think UA will upgrade seats in Economy Plus to coincide with the Intl upgrade. Not quite as extensive as BA or the likes but mainly a much m
48 N1120A: Ok, so a person who flies once a year on a full Y fare should trump someone who slugs away 100,000+ simply because they bought a Q fare (not a bucket
49 Zvezda: Yes, absolutely. Get what you pay for. Doing otherwise just discourages people from paying for the higher fares.
50 Christao17: MSY-MSP - very well thought-out post. People are going a little overboard here in their responses to this news. If I'm reading the OP right, all that
51 JohnClipper: I just tried booking a flight on UA (I am a Premier Exec) and was allowed to book my seats in E+. with no problem. The "Premium Seat" disclaimer pops
52 N1120A: You just don't get it, do you? Taking a hit in revenue is sometimes the best way to make money in the long term. Why do you think supermarkets offer
53 BNE: That is no good; I enjoyed the flight I had in E+; very nice. Oh well back to the cheapest airfare wins of selecting flights for future travel inside
54 Fbgdavidson: Read the thread UA elites are unaffected, it is non-UA *Gs and Y/B fare paying passengers who can't pre-assign E+. There are? Whilst the elite ranks
55 N1120A: See, I think you would be wrong there. Earning status in EC is a much more expensive endeavour than in MP. Ever been to FRA?
56 UAL4ever: WHile I feel sympathy for those affected by this move as a Premier Exec. on UA I can't help but agree with their decision. When I fly on Air Canada or
57 Zvezda: I get it that SQ are more profitable than UA. Both reward loyalty, but SQ also reward those who pay full fare.
58 SNATH: I'm also *A Gold and fly regularly on LH long-haul. I very regularly get a pre-assigned seat in the forward section of th planes (only last Sunday I
59 Koruman: I'm an Air NZ Gold Elite (higher than Gold) who probably flies Business Class to the USA once each year, and flies about four to five flights there. I
60 Potomac: READ THIS: Again, in the absence of there being an official announcement from United and any confirmed specifics included on this thread, this is the
61 Sshank: Unless you are a midget the only thing that's premium on a plane is space and by that account E+ is indeed "premium" economy. While it is not in the s
62 Stitch: Well those upgrades are only good day of flight, so as an LH M&M member, if you want an upgrade, burn the instrument. UA does not offer complimentary
63 N1120A: You are comparing an airline with 88 airplanes that serves and insulated home population comparable to the City of Los Angeles (proper, not metro) to
64 FCYTravis: Umm, because I felt like it? It's not like flying domestic F on basically any carrier (apart from p.s.) is some wonderful luxurious travel experience
67 Lightsaber: I have to agree. There must be a benifit to paying full fare. Actually, my company will pay full Y fare no questions asked. I have skewed my flights
68 FCYTravis: It's rather easy to forget domestic F-class catering
69 N1120A: Perhaps so on US, where you rarely get food anyway
70 FCYTravis: Actually, on my several AA and UA F/C flights, I can't recall anything truly memorable. OK, the ice cream sundae on AA was pretty good, but other tha
71 Carpethead: Agreed. I am also a *G but on some non-UA flight, I have been assigned seating waaay in the back despite some empty aisle or window seats in the forw
72 Christao17: Yes, but there isn't anything saying that Y/B fares can't get Economy Plus! The OP just said that they can't book E+ in advance.
73 Abrelosojos: = Not really a perk. If you run the numbers, UA *G members can access domestic U.S. lounges while UA *G members cannot access ANY lounges within the
74 ManchesterMAN: Maybe this clears a few things up. Sent by UA to corporate travel agents:
75 M180up: in US you still get preferred seats, aisle or window seats in the front of the plane, exit rows, if you are an elite member with any *A member.
76 CHIFLYGUY: I still can't believe that UA is doing this to Y/B fares. They must have done their homework on it, though, and believe they aren't going to lose busi
77 UTA_flyinghigh: I am *G and flew 5 Europe-US roundtrips this year in Y and 3 in C/J. The Y ones were all done on UA, and UA was chosen for that E+ benefit. They must
78 Nimish: As an Air Canada *A Gold - I'm unable to get any of the "preferred seats" in economy assigned to me on LH (first few rows of economy - plain vanilla p
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That's the only thing I can say...
From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 403 posts, 
, because everytime I receive an elite member from any of the *A members they receive all of the benefits they are entitled to when I receive the call but I know some agents don't honor those benefits.
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