Burnsie28 From United States, joined Aug 2004, 6235 posts, RR: 16 Posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2180 times:
Northwest Airlines has now added a website for support of the Detroit to Shanghai non-stop service. It explains why NW should be chosen and if you would like to sign the petition for NW. I did, information can be found here:
SHUPirate1 From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3568 posts, RR: 25 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2142 times:
I have a great idea on this one for people wanting to fly Detroit-Shanghai...it's called FLY THROUGH TOKYO!!!!!
In other words, next question. Personally, I'd go with Dallas/Fort Worth-Beijing over Newark-Shanghai, Northern Virginia-Beijing, or Detroit-Shanghai if I ran the DOT, although I wouldn't be opposed to Newark-Shanghai either. That said, the best idea, in my opinion, would have been if United had bid with San Francisco-Guangzhou (didn't they originally request slots for that?), but that seems to be off the table for the time being.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
Bobnwa From United States, joined Dec 2000, 4713 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1883 times:
Jetjack,
Do you expect NWA to begin trans-atlantic service with these aircraft next spring? I know there has been a lot of speculation about this, but nothing official
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2656 posts, RR: 20 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1768 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8): Given the sheer number of US-China frequencies that NW wastes on flights ex-NRT, they should not be given another US-China frequency.
Northwest deserves the award for dumbest application. They'd have a better shot if they applied to serve an aiport they do not serve currently.
B2443 From United States, joined Jul 2004, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1728 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 9): Northwest deserves the award for dumbest application. They'd have a better shot if they applied to serve an aiport they do not serve currently.
Somewhere I heard there actually is 7-frequency open between US and China (except PEF/PVG/CAN) that nobody is interested. I wonder why NW wouldn't want to pick that up and run a 752 to Chengdu ot Chongqing and convert their current one-stop DTW-PVG to NON-stop? Is NW lack of 744s to run the non-stop (assuming that NW keeps the current 744 schedule)?
Nwab787techops From United States, joined Feb 2006, 217 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1667 times:
I think it sould be NWA or UA. CO and AA just got slots,also they are there first routs china. NWA has been flying to China way before UA got the Slots form Pan Am.
Jetjack74 From United States, joined Jul 2003, 6586 posts, RR: 54 Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 1631 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 7): Do you expect NWA to begin trans-atlantic service with these aircraft next spring? I know there has been a lot of speculation about this, but nothing official
I think it'll be soon that we'll actually announce the new routes. Right now, DTW has 13 int'l routes from it, by next year, DTW will have 25. So I don't think it will be long before the "official" word comes down from Building A.
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
Hjulicher From Russia, joined Feb 2005, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
I support any expansion from Southeastern michigan. Detroit has the best facilities, the name recognition, and the experience dealing with China and Asian travelers. We also have a competent airport management team! Detroit could use international expansion too! If not to europe or south america, then Asia it is.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18393 posts, RR: 59 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1495 times:
Burnsie28 From United States, joined Aug 2004, 6235 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1484 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8): Given the sheer number of US-China frequencies that NW wastes on flights ex-NRT, they should not be given another US-China frequency.
The whole what, 3 flights a week they waste, they only have so many non-stops per week they can do
B2443 From United States, joined Jul 2004, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1455 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16): The whole what, 3 flights a week they waste, they only have so many non-stops per week they can do
Wouldn't it be 3 daily (PEK/PVG/CAN)?
I mean if ALL other airlines can fill their 777s and 744's to PEK/PVG from the US non-stop, why would NW not convert DTW-PEK and PVG to non-stop and stop worrying about un-filled seats? perhaps they have much bigger issues to worry about at the moment (eg F/A contracts) and NOT really sincere this time about doing US-China non-stop.
Bobnwa From United States, joined Dec 2000, 4713 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1432 times:
Quoting B2443 (Reply 17): I mean if ALL other airlines can fill their 777s and 744's to PEK/PVG from the US non-stop, why would NW not convert DTW-PEK and PVG to non-stop and stop worrying about un-filled seats
Other than UA, no other US carrier can offer China flights via Japan. That's probably why they don't. As for UA, they choose one way and NW choose another. It allows them to offer one-stop service to and from China via SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, HNL, MSP, and DTW. Very successfully, I might add. Also, don't forget that over 50% of the passengers on any fight between China and the US, originated in China. This is true for every carrier in the market.
B2443 From United States, joined Jul 2004, 542 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1419 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 18): offer one-stop service to and from China via SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, HNL, MSP, and DTW. Very successfully, I might add.
Okay, that's NW's strategy. But why NW then applies DTW-PVG non-stop (against its own strategy)?
Why wouldn't they apply DTW-CTU via NRT, which would be a sure thing (no one seems to be interested in the 7 frequency for a non PEK/PVG/CAN city) to win? The one-stop to CTU would fit NW's plan and would be granted by DOT for sure and NW chose not to do it.
Bobnwa From United States, joined Dec 2000, 4713 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1356 times:
Quoting B2443 (Reply 19): Okay, that's NW's strategy. But why NW then applies DTW-PVG non-stop (against its own strategy)?
They probably feel that doing both would be successful.
Quoting B2443 (Reply 19): Why wouldn't they apply DTW-CTU via NRT, which would be a sure thing (no one seems to be interested in the 7 frequency for a non PEK/PVG/CAN city) to win?
They don't have any extra wide bodied slots to operate a new flight to NRT. I believe that for all flights departing NRT for other Asia points, there has to be a coresponding arrival from the US. NWA and UA cannot originate flights from Japan to other Asia points without an arrival.
If it appears that NWA wants the best of both worlds, you would be right, they do. That's the way business works.
SHUPirate1 From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3568 posts, RR: 25 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1275 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 20): I believe that for all flights departing NRT for other Asia points, there has to be a coresponding arrival from the US.
Is that a bilateral thing, or based on aircraft availability? If it's based on aircraft availability, why can't they just reposition that aircraft from the United States, where the plane probably (speculation) loses money anyway.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18393 posts, RR: 59 Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16): How about not hijacking the thread, and CO offers people a lot less for connections anyway.
You started a thread "pointing out" how NW is vying for this route and then telling people how to sign the petition.
My response is ON TOPIC. CO is also vying for this route, as are other airlines. All I did is point out a similar site for CO.
How about not trying to hide competition. How about not lying about the "connections" that CO offers.
Have a nice day.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Hjulicher From Russia, joined Feb 2005, 760 posts, RR: 3 Reply 25, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1118 times:
In terms of connecting passengers, DTW has the best shot. They can connect more people from their hub than any airline without having passengers fly out of their way. On top of that, they have the best facility for such a flight.
Does NYC and WAS already have flights to PVG?
26 TristanHNL: Well put! You are exactly right. Although I support CO instead of NW. I already got all my family, friends and coworkers to sign the CO petition Flyi
27 Burnsie28: Because they don't have the rights to fly US to China non-stop, what do you think they are applying for I was also saying to sign the petition.... I'
28 UpperDeck79: I support both NW and UA...:D Since it's ridiculous that they both use (or are forced to use) one of the most slot-restricted airports in the world (
29 B2443: hmmm...they used to fly DTW-PEK/PVG non-stop before 911. I am not sure how they don't have "non-stop" rights. They have 21 US-China rights, (maybe I'
30 Max999: How come they stopped flying the nonstop routes? And why didn't they resume the nonstops? I believe that UA either continued their USA-China nonstop
31 Commavia: An alright effort by Northwest, but I think that of the four applications on the docket with the DoT, theirs has the lowest chance of getting approved
32 UN_B732: I have a feeling the DOT is going to care very little about these petitions -- they were all spread by e-mails, and most signers have little, if any i
33 SeeTheWorld: You have no idea what you are talking about. UA flies all 28 weekly frequencies nonstop, and NW used to fly nonstop prior to 9/11. Both UA and NW hav
34 B2443: It was then...but time's changed. When they applied for DTW-PVG nonstop using 744s, it indicates it's no longer a concern for them. Do they actually
35 Burnsie28: They flew DTW-PEK before 9/11. If they had these rights, they wouldn't need to apply for service from DTW-PVG To Beijing, which are rumored to start
36 SeeTheWorld: That may be the case now, but NW could very easily swap out a NRT-China flight for a DTW-PVG flight, and therefore, there is virtually ZERO chance th
37 SHUPirate1: I have a solution for Northwest that would allow them to no longer worry about this, although it would cost them CAN...have their AMS-BOM flight cont
38 MAH4546: I'm pretty sure the DTW-CAN flight is locked in. They can switch it to non-stop from via Tokyo, but otherwise they forfeit the authority. This was no
39 B2443: They had DTW-PVG non-stop (3 weekly) before 911 as well. So they had the right.
40 Burnsie28: According to nwa.com, Northwest never flew DTW-PVG non-stop, the only non-stop Chinese route they said they flew non-stop was DTW-PEK.
41 B2443: Then your nwa.com must have been different... http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/upclose/2000.shtml in 2000, April 6 Northwest begins twice weekly Detroit-S
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