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Why Is ATH So Expensive?  
User currently offlinePhoenixflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

While doing some research for a trip next summer, I decided to find out which airport would be the cheapest to fly into from NYC. I figured it would be either London or Paris whish turned out to be true. I assume because of the vast array of airlines that fly between NYC and LON. But what really surprised me was how much more expensive Athens was in comparison to other major European cities. It was over $400 more than London and $200 more than the next most expensive, Barcelona. What makes AHN so expensive?

[Edited 2006-09-14 20:05:34]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Thread starter):
What makes AHN so expensive?

I take it you mean ATH? One of the big reasons is that it is physically farther from the US than other major European capitals. Second, there is not much competition from US carriers, allowing European carriers to carry single or double connects for a higher price.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRjnut From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6127 times:

Ummhhh! Like its further, DUH!

and they don't ever run specials this early in advance!!!
Be patient!


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6114 times:

Well, I live in Athens, Georgia, USA (AHN) and it too is very expensive to fly into and out of but then again there is only one destination and one airline - AHN-CLT and it USAir.

Now, that being said I assume also that you were meaning Athens, Greece. Obviously the biggest reason is that it significantly further from JFK than LHR/LGW or CDG. More mileage, more fuel, more time, etc.. Same as getting in your car and asking yourself "Why do I use more gas to go from NYC to LAX than NYC to Newark?" Just think about it!?!?! Duuhhh!



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlinePhoenixflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

Quoting Rjnut (Reply 2):
Ummhhh! Like its further, DUH!

and they don't ever run specials this early in advance!!!
Be patient!

i wasnt looking for specials. just a price comparison. i did a search from NYC to 14 different cities all for the same random day so i get an impression on how the prices compare. Lisbon is closer than London but its more expensive. Just because its further away doesnt mean its more expensive. I figured its because of competition issues but I thought I would ask anyways here incase there was some sort of other restriction that causes it to be a stand out.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6062 times:

Some of the answers you're looking for are in this recent thread:

Why No FR To Greece? (by Ba757gla Aug 31 2006 in Civil Aviation)

It's a combination of several factors, including cost of doing business at ATH, but each airline approaches their solution to that in different ways.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Phoenixflyer:
I flew Athens to New York on Olympic Airways last June. Yes it was more expensive than connecting through Frankfurt or London oh Lufthansa or Virgin Atlantic.
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.  yes 
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.


I talk a lot about the flight on my world trip thread.
Superfly Completes Trip Around The World (by Superfly Jul 10 2006 in Trip Reports)


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DeltaDAWG:
When I was in Athens, Greece, I did meet a couple from Athens, Georgia.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.

Not for people who die back there.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5905 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Not for people who die back there.

 confused 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

There is much greater capacity and thus competition for major hubs like FRA, LHR, ORD than smaller cities in the EU like ATH. Some smaller EU cities have fewer airlines or smaller aircraft serving them non-stop from points like NY City. Distance is also a factor of course.
As to Greece and NY City area, you have a large population of people of Greek birth or ancestry there, so you have a special local demand, with preference for Olympic airways by some, thus leading to higher fares.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
with preference for Olympic airways by some, thus leading to higher fares.

I guess I am partially to blame for that.  Sad



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 4):
Just because its further away doesnt mean its more expensive

when you have a short difference in distance, yes you're right (e.g. JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG would be approx. the same price) but ATH is really much further so in this case, it's very basic : it's further so it's more expensive


User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

Quoting Goldorak:
when you have a short difference in distance, yes you're right (e.g. JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG would be approx. the same price) but ATH is really much further so in this case, it's very basic : it's further so it's more expensive

Well if that's the case why is LIS so expensive, or FRA expensive non-stop. Its really the airlines that ca dictate price and if no competition is onboard feel free to try and get a monopoly on the routes. OA will (and should) be gone in a year. LH has a monopoly in that region with all the airlines struggling. BA is already a high priced airlines. ATH is getting the worst of all three worlds. Pretty sad for such a wonderfully new airport.



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
Pretty sad for such a wonderfully new airport.

I agree that ATH is an amazing airport but to OA "should be gone" is wrong. It was a wonderful airline to fly on. Both the ATR-72 from Istanbul and the A340 to JFK were great flights with excellent service.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

Doesn't the ATH high operating costs for airlines has a direct link with the 2004 Athens Olympics?


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1453 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5565 times:

Lets also not forget that ATH airport taxes are among the highest in the world. I once took an award ticket on TK for IST-ATH-IST and of course I had to pay taxes only. I remember paying about 130 USD if my memory serves me right.


Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):

I flew Athens to New York on Olympic Airways last June. Yes it was more expensive than connecting through Frankfurt or London oh Lufthansa or Virgin Atlantic.
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.   
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.

I've been telling people that OA is top notch for years.  yes 
OA ticket prices are not that much more, most of the time OA is cheaper.
When I fly to Greece, I insist on flying with OA, good food, safety record, world class pilots and maintenance staff.  bigthumbsup 

Yanni



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

TurkishWings:
That is to pay for the DJ at the airport. Big grin
I kid you not, when I arrived at IST, I heard over the loudspeaker 'Theme From Superfly ' by Curtis Mayfeild.
It was as if the people of Greece were expecting me.  Smile

I must say, ATH has the coolest modern airport!  yes 
My flight from Istanbul on Olympic Airways ATR-72 arrived in to Athens at midnight and the subway is no longer running at that time.
So I crashed overnight in the terminal before I checked in to a hotel near Victoria square in Athens.

After dark, ATH turns in to one large Hostel with backpackers setting up there inflatable mattresses and sleeping bags. Part of the reason for this is because the ferries from the Greek islands are notoriously late so many travellers add a 1 day cushion before there flight out of Greece. Therefore, many hang sleep overnight at ATH.

ATH also has the best selection of Herpa Wings model aircraft. I picked up a Silk Way IL-76 Cargo of Azerbadzian while staying overnight in ATH.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
OA will (and should) be gone in a year.

 Confused



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 18):
OA will (and should) be gone in a year.

Confused

Olympic Airlines is effectively already bankrupt. They are reorganizing and restarting all the time, but in effect the Greek government and thus the taxpayer pays for Olympic Airlines. It also creates an unfair competition with other carriers that are run privately and operate in the same environment: Europe.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5492 times:

Quick question,
Can Greece opt out of the EU?
I put my money where my mouth is and paid the extra $$$ money to fly on Olympic instead of Lufthansa, BA, Virgin and Air France. I've flown on the others and wanted to fly on OA for a change.
To be honest, I'll still pay more to fly on OA if I am flying to Greece.
If the Geek government wants to bail out Olympic, they should have that right.
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.
As I have said almost a dozen times before, it's mindboggling to hear of Olympic's finacial troubles. As a customer, I didn't see/feel any sort of signs of an airline in trouble. In fact, OA is the best EU member airline I have flown in over 20 years.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Can Greece opt out of the EU?

Although I assume that somewhere in the massive EU regulations there should be a way out, practically it is completely impossible. There is so much involved in the EU membership that they have since 1981 (the Euro, free trade, etc, etc, etc) that quitting the European Union is an impossible operation.

By the way, don't forget Greece is a net receiver of the EU: they get more money than they pay; net contributors are amongst others the UK (largest absolute contributor), the Netherlands (largest contributor per capita), France, Germany, Denmark. Opting out of the EU would cost them a lot of money.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
If the Geek government wants to bail out Olympic, they should have that right.

No, they shouldn't, or they shouldn't be in the European Open Skies agreement. Within the open skies, every EU airline is allowed to operate everywhere as much as they want. Now let's take AMS-ATH. OA operates this route with government support, KLM has to do without government funds. It is an unfair competition. In restricted aviation environments it is not a problem (that's why the restrictions are there in the first place!) but in an open skies, everybody should be equal. It is one of the basics of an open and free market. (the same is for Alitalia, by the way).

By the way 2; Greece already has an advantageous position as the Greek Islands are excluded from the EU open skies agreement, so OA here has hardly any competition. So OA could fly MXP-PMO but AZ is not allowed to operate ATH-HER.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.

Ehm, did you talk to all the Greek locals? And you are talking about joining 25 years ago?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

Joost:
OK I see you point. But more importantly, can I get two lamb or pork gyros and a liter of beer for 4 Euros throughout the EU?
If not, my alliegence is with Greece! Big grin



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3677 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

It is true that a flight to ATH from the US would cost you more because, as other members said, flight time is much longer. For example, ATH-CDG or ATH-LHR are around 3 hr flights so there is a significant difference in distance and flight time.

The airport is also fairly new and they are trying to cover its costs very agressively with high charges. When the airport first opened, I believe that charges for airlines were much higher than today's.

And of course, there is not much competition to the ATH market, especially from the US. So I guess this is why ticket prices would be much higher than other, more popular European destinations

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Can Greece opt out of the EU?

Not really, we're too much involved in the EU now to just back up.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.

As a Greek citizen I am happy about the EU; free trade and financial support have helped the country grow significantly.

On the other hand, many people are not happy about the Euro. After its introduction life became much more expensive than before.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Quoting Lewis (Reply 23):
On the other hand, many people are not happy about the Euro. After its introduction life became much more expensive than before.

That is consistant with what I have heard from the locals.

I am sure that I am the only Airliners.net member to have the theme of there username played as they entered the airport terminal .  

ATH is still one of the coolest airports and Olympic Airways is a top-notch, world-class airline!   

[Edited 2006-09-15 15:04:24]

[Edited 2006-09-15 15:05:30]


Bring back the Concorde
25 Post contains images Superfly : Ooops! I meant to say when I arrived at ATH ...
26 Iakobos : Good for you, regular users of OA's network could abundantly document a very different view. This said: technical maintenance (frame-engines-systems)
27 Post contains images Superfly : Perhaps I should have re-worded my post. I meant to say that f the Greek locals, none are happy about converting to the Euro. Others in this thread h
28 CYatUK : Something that hasn't been mentioned! Athens is a brand new airport built from scratch at a brownfield site. Apart from the aiport, the construction i
29 VV701 : You do not mention what the actual total cost of either the NYC-LHR or NYC-ATH fares you were looking at was. But the ticketing distance from NYC to
30 TIA : Or unless the price was really that low, despite of what you claim. Athens is by far the cheapest (prices wise) major Western European city.
31 6thfreedom : Superfly... you can't do that! hhhhmmmm... regarding fares..... isn't one of the issues the fact that LHR attracts a lot more premium traffic, and the
32 Post contains images Superfly : Can't do what?
33 Post contains images FXramper : Ahh...the good ole days of camping overnight in that airport. I got a pic somewhere of me sleeping on a bench with a sausage biscuit (uneaten) sittin
34 6thfreedom : 2 x gyros and mythos beer!
35 OA412 : Yeah, I too found several stands in Athens where I could get a similar meal for a similar price on my most recent trip to Greece so it is definitely
36 Post contains images Superfly : I can and I did. My goodness, I am getting the feeling that I know of the good cheap restaurants better than the native Greeks on this board. Next ti
37 WesternA318 : Maybe if they started serving $1 Gyros in ATH, it'd be a WHOLE lot better on the overall running of the airport...
38 Post contains images Superfly : LOL! ATH does have a great selection of Herpa Wings 1:500 model aircraft. So if you're in to collecting those model planes than ATH is your place.
39 Post contains images WesternA318 : True, although EWR now sells CO Pacmin models...
40 BestWestern : OA is fine when an OA aircraft turns up... I've given up on OA to ATH, as im sick and tired of rust bucket charter layout sub aircraft. Never again,
41 WesternA318 : Judas Priest! How many people walked away more pissed off than a one-legged stripper doing a tablehop?
42 Lewis : Barcelona comes to mind. Much much cheaper in my opinion.
43 Post contains links and images Superfly : That's cool. I like to stick with the 1:500 scale so all aicraft are to scale as if it's at a real airport. I do have one 1:200 scale Olympic Airways
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