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Air France And KLM Increase SJO Based Staff  
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

I've been reading at costaricaaviation.com about a report from the Costa Rican business newspaper La República (printed version) about the government apparently being close to finishing a deal for air service between Paris (most likely out of CDG) and SJO. Though no names have been mentioned, it was mentioned in the article of that AF-KL are increasing their SJO based staff, which could mean they are in preparation of staring new service down here.

I got two questions on the subject: If this was to become official, what equipment would AF send to SJO? I would presume either a 772 or an A343, as a 744 and 77W would be too big in terms of premium demand. And how big is demand from Costa Rica to France or The Netherlands (if KL eventually does return).

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Thread starter):
I got two questions on the subject: If this was to become official, what equipment would AF send to SJO? I would presume either a 772 or an A343, as a 744 and 77W would be too big in terms of premium demand. And how big is demand from Costa Rica to France or The Netherlands (if KL eventually does return).

The CDG-based 772s and 773s are in low-density three class configurations. Most definitley SJO service would be an A330.



a.
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Most definitley SJO service would be an A330.

Only an A330? What would this mean configuration wise? I reckon, I don't think there is that much premium demand, but nonetheless, my question remains.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
Only an A330? What would this mean configuration wise? I reckon, I don't think there is that much premium demand, but nonetheless, my question remains.

A330s are in a 2-class configuration with no F-cabin, as are the A340s and most 747s. As you said, the 747 is too big and, IMO, so is the A340. Indeed, the A330s have 10 more business class seats than the A340s, but, the economy cabin of the A340 is has nearly 70 more seats than the 330. It is difficult to say which one is better for the market. I think it's the A330, because the trade-off in C for Y seats in this case is too large.

I personally think AMS-SJO would be the better market. Not is there, I believe, a larger market for Dutch tourists in Costa Rica than French tourists (correct me if I'm wrong), but their A330's configuration, 30C/221Y, represents a perfect compromise between the 40C/182Y and 30C/259Y of AF's A330 and A340 aircraft.

[Edited 2006-09-15 03:37:23]


a.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9779 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

Can the A332 fly CDG-SJO nonstop? I was also thinking in the direction of the A343 or 772ER....? In any way it is goof news for Costa Rica if it will become official of course Big grin

A388


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
I personally think AMS-SJO would be the better market.

Martinair flies the route currently through MCO and MIA. They used to fly the Florida/SJO segment with their own (leased?) 738 but I guess now it's flown by Lacsa.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):

Martinair flies the route currently through MCO and MIA. They used to fly the Florida/SJO segment with their own (leased?) 738 but I guess now it's flown by Lacsa.

It used to be with their own 763. Then they switched to a 738 wet leased from Miami Air, and now it is an A320 operated by LACSA, but in Martinair colours.

[Edited 2006-09-15 04:33:49]


a.
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Curious, la Prensa posted a brief newsletter in its printed version saying that AF-KL was hiring people in Panama and that there were rumors of a deal between fellow SkyTeam members CM (CM in my book is a member) and AF, but that was about 4 months ago.

Maybe a triangular AMS-SJO-PTY with a A330 or 772ER?

SJO doesn't have a large premium market, but PTY does, the two destinations complement each other nicely. And KL has served PTY before from bonnaire and did it profitably for about 10 years until the economic disaster during Noriega forced them to cancel the route


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):
Can the A332 fly CDG-SJO nonstop?

Yes. According to the Great Circle Mapper, CDG-SJO is just 4828 nm still air distance, while AMS-SJO is around 4896 nm. It's well within reach for an A332, be it those from KL or AF. Remember: one of AF's flights to NRT is operated with an A332 and is one of the longest A330 flights around, plus Livingston did a nonstop charter from SJO to HAM for a tour operator during the World Cup (also with an A332).

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
It used to be with their own 763. Then they switched to a 738 wet leased from Miami Air, and now it is an A320 operated by LACSA, but in Martinair colours.

I still can't believe MP can still operate the route like that. I heard the direct flight, which ceased to exist in 2004 was doing rather well.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 7):
there were rumors of a deal between fellow SkyTeam members CM (CM in my book is a member) and AF

Makes sense. CM is a SkyTeam associate member, and they could even provide good feed for those flights in both SJO (SJO is a major focus city for CM with at least 3 or 4 daily CM flights to PTY a day) and PTY.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 7):
Maybe a triangular AMS-SJO-PTY with a A330 or 772ER?

Could make sense, though the equipment for such a flight would likely be an MD-11. It would be like following in the footsteps of IB, which operates MAD-SJO-PTY thrice weekly. And in IB's case, they seem to be doing rather well, operating the flight with only A346s.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 7):
KL has served PTY before from bonnaire and did it profitably for about 10 years until the economic disaster during Noriega forced them to cancel the route

Curious. Didn't KL come back to PTY until the flight was cancelled for good in 1996 or 97? I believe my mother took that flight once and back then it still continued to SJO.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 7):
Maybe a triangular AMS-SJO-PTY with a A330 or 772ER?

KL/AF are currently looking into serving additional destinations in the Central America region, but nothing has so far been confirmed, not even whether AF or KL would operate such a route. However, what would be the point of serving SJO if PTY were to be served in order to feed into the CM regional network?


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):
However, what would be the point of serving SJO if PTY were to be served in order to feed into the CM regional network?

One would be for MP to stop current service, so KL can get back to SJO. A triangular route involving SJO and PTY would give both a dedicated flight which can serve two markets at once, the more leisure orientated (SJO) and the more business orientated one. Such a move would also allow MP to terminate their service for good and hand it back to KL, which will give people who travel from SJO to Amsterdam a new and more convenient choice that allows them to bypass the US and their visa requirements on the way to Europe.

SJO and PTY are probably the biggest markets in all of Central America, with plenty of flights a week (SJO gets daily IB flights, PTY thrice weekly IB flights through SJO, and NM operates MAD-SJO-PTY twice weekly), along with DE and his holiday flights to SJO. This region seems to have some kind of demand. With IB having a monopoly on nonstop flights to GUA, and SJO and PTY receiving most of the triangular flights from Europe into the region, if all is well planned (right amount of frequency, right choice of equipment and a good product), AF-KL could make good money and give IB some serious competition, serving both leisure and business traffic to Central America. I believe this region has potential. It doesn't have to be daily frequencies, but enough to give people a choice to bypass bigger and/or congested hubs and also bypassing the US, as all Central Americans are required to apply for transit visas.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
One would be for MP to stop current service, so KL can get back to SJO. A triangular route involving SJO and PTY would give both a dedicated flight which can serve two markets at once, the more leisure orientated (SJO) and the more business orientated one. Such a move would also allow MP to terminate their service for good and hand it back to KL, which will give people who travel from SJO to Amsterdam a new and more convenient choice that allows them to bypass the US and their visa requirements on the way to Europe.

I understant that but couldn't the same purpose be served by just serving PTY. As I understand, one of the main objectives of a potential PTY service by either Air France or KLM would be to feed into CM's extensive regional network, so SJO could perfectly be served through an interline or codeshare deal with CM. I am not saying that a combined SJO-PTYis out of the question and I know that several alternatives are being looked into, but, as I said, there are alternatives.


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